leaning on the bit

[kidside]

We have a Sec A LR pony only 5 and still a novice, my daughter is a dainty 7 not at all heavy with her hands, problem is pony hangs bandly on the bit and she is not strong enough yet to lift him. Teeth checked and fine just baby habit. He is not strong forward going and responsive to what leg she has. He is also fine when I long rein him, im too big to get on board.

Bits are not my strong point can anyone help with a suggestion currently he is just in a snaffle.

[kidside]

ha ha clearly everyone else is as rubbish as me on bits oh well was worth a shot

[orangetails]

Problem is without seeing it's hard to know exactly what's going on....

Personally, I really rate the little Neue Schule pony bits for sec a mouths, they are expensive though.

Is your daughter riding him off lead? Does he actually know how to go off lead? I only ask this as so many small ponies are backed as lead rein ponies and don't actually know how to be ridden as a first ridden... Do you have access to someone small enough who could ride him for you and maybe get a better feel for what is going on? (Or better still, ride regularly to help school him on for your daughter!)

Some bits encourage leaning more than others, but it's also likely given his age/inexperience that he hasn't learnt to take the weight behind yet, in which case a stronger bit won't help, though a change of bit may help him be more comfy depending on exactly what he's doing - and what 'just a snaffle' you have at the moment as there are so many!

[kidside]

No she doesn't yet ride off the lead however the pony was ridden away off the lead for 12 months before I bought him and we had him 12 months, I have long reined him and I know its a baby thing as I can pick him up but my daughter is only dainty and cant lift him and send him forward with her leg, I was looking for a habit breaker really so to teach him to stop doing it. I have someone who can ride him however suspect as most little ponies as soon as my daughter gets back on he will lean again, and I mean an eggbutt snaffle.

Basically pony would allow his head to touch the floor when she rides if she let go of the reins its that bad, I know with time and work it will improve she just gets no pleasure in riding at the moment as he hurts her shoulders.

Though it has been suggested to stand in side reins for 30 mins before she rides to help teach him to hold himself rather than looking at the bit, so will see how that goes, he is not being strapped in before anyone jumps on me as he has a natural outline but after the first time I did notice an improvement so will continue with this route for now

[orangetails]

I cannot for the life of me see how putting side reins on stationary for half an hour before riding will do anything other than give the pony a false lightness through having a sore neck - sorry. If the problem is that daughter is not getting him forwards enough to lighten him in front, how is standing in side reins going to make any kind of difference? It's not going to teach him to 'hold himself', it's just going to teach him to tuck his nose in. He still won't be working from behind.

Using a different bit as a 'habit breaker' is also unlikely to work - he may lighten initially at the change of feel, but the basic problem (he doesn't know how to use himself correctly, and accept a contact) still exists. He doesn't know what all the different bits mean! You may find a loose ring rather than an eggbutt gives a bit more mobility in the jaw, and many ponies prefer a lozenge/French link to a single joint. But he's not going to learn not to lean without being taught what 'not leaning' is, and how he can do it.

He's 5, your daughter is a novice (no matter how long she's been riding, at 7, and unable to work the pony from behind into the contact, she's a novice) from your second reply I honestly think you are expecting too much of the pair of them. I don't see why with some correct schooling from someone who CAN teach him how to work correctly he should then start leaning on your daughter again? It doesn't sound to me like he's an older established pony who is leaning on her because he can and he knows it, it sounds like he is a young, possibly confused pony, who doesn't actually know what she is asking him to do. Very few lead rein ponies are good first riddens as well.

[roxy93]

ring the bit bank they will help and also do trial bits.

[kidside]

Bit bank said a waterford. Think I will leave this thread now as feel its going the wrong way

[tct2912]

My pony did the same and I spent a mortgage trying to find the right bit. I ended up with a Neue Schule and it has most certainly done the trick

[fanfarefan]

i'd personally give the pony a rest from a bit for a while , and try him in a bitless bridle

[sageandonionagain]

orangetails is absolutely correct. I know you just asked for a bit, but there isn't one which will achieve your aim. If there were riding would be so very simple but far less satisfying. Don't be offended by her suggestion schooling is required because that really is the answer. With a child this schooling by a small competent adult (schooling with a child rider in mind) will need to continue on a regular basis.

Lunging in an Equi Ami may help, an instructor will need to assess your pony with the aid and it must be adjusted corrected and you must lunge competently.

A lot to learn and some pennies to spend but absolutely worth it.

[kidside]

I was more than offended which is why I said to leave this post, her instructor was the one who recommended the side reins as I said he was not being tied in, I am by no means novice or a beginner just was looking for bit advise as bits are not my strong area and wasnt happy with the recommendation of a waterford, I wanted a bit of help not a lecture on my childs riding ability she is 7 years old and her leg hardly passes the saddle flap she has absolutely no way of sending the pony forward with her leg, just her voice this does not make her a poor or novice rider. I have had a few PM's from genuine people with genuine non judgemental advice and have thanked them. The pony is now in a peanut snaffle which has reduced the leaning by at least 50% (so changing the bit did work) and I will continue to long rein him, a bitless bridle is not the answer. I also disagree on the pennies I am not after a quick fix bodge it job I wanted a simple aid to help them both so they could work together and resolve, I hate adults and big kids on pones im 5ft 2" if I was so inclined I would climb on board but I wont they need to learn together, how many posts do you see where people make comments concerning adults working and riding kids ponies, children will never learn if this is the answer, may be im old school on this one!

[sageandonionagain]

I don't think anyone is trying to offend or criticise you little girl's riding, it simply is what it is. Ponies are built on their forehand and unless they are trained to develop the muscle which will enable them to carry themselves, they will always fall onto the hands. As you say, you little girl doesn't have the physique to do that training so it isn't insulting to suggest a small adult to help. I am very small myself and I hand over the reins to my trainer regularly to help my pony. She is probably twice as wide and definitely twice as heavy as I, her experience means my pony responds to the lightest aid when little me gets aboard and pony is so much happier because he knows what is wanted and he is a pleasure for me. There is a very nice snaffle by Sprenger call the KK WH bit. It has a little roller in the middle and is dressage legal, it may help a tiny touch if you can get one small enough, but it will always be the schooling that will enable the pony to transfer weight from the front and off the hands.

[orangetails]

Thanks S&O! As you say, I was not being offensive nor criticising OP's daughter at all, there was nothing 'un-genuine' about my responses, you asked for help, and as I have a fair bit of experience brining on young green ponies including several smaller ones for children, I did my best to help. As I have just said on a similar post elsewhere with the same problem (a 5yo child having problems cantering a pony who has never cantered under saddle, and poster wanting a different bit to help) - it's not just about the bit, you wouldn't put an inexperienced young rider on a 16hh young green horse and expect them to be able to improve how the horse goes - you use an experienced rider to school the horse on first. So just because children are the only jockeys small enough to ride the smaller ponies doesn't mean they are good enough riders on those ponies who don't yet fully know their jobs either.

I'm glad the change of bit helped - if you had read my second reply in the spirit it was intended instead of getting offended, you would have noticed I did actually suggest a lozenge ('peanut') bit might help.

The problem with 'learning together' is that neither child nor pony has the skills or knowledge to help the other out. That's not a criticism, it's just a fact. How can a 7yo possibly have enough knowledge to school on a green pony? Most adults don't!! She's still learning herself bless her - at no point did I say she was a 'poor rider', just that she was incapable of riding the pony forwards into a light contact - which you have said yourself.

Either which way, you're clearly pleased with how things are going now, so that's fine. I myself shall now try not to be offended that I took considerable time to reply to your thread when no one else had bothered, and didn't get a single bit of thanks for it!