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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Nov 13, 2015 7:53:46 GMT
On Sunday 22nd November an EGM has been called by at least 20 members of the BCPS requesting immediate action by the BCPS in helping to eradicate this horrendous disease.
I know some on here (myself included) have had first hand experience of this awful disease, which can result in severe lameness in all four feet and eventually euthanasia. Feed and good farriery do not sort the problem, and it is severely affected by changes in the weather.
However, it is sortable - there is a relatively cheap gene test which can be done and will tell you whether or not your breeding animal is a carrier or not. If it is a carrier it must be bred to a non-carrier, and eventually the faulty gene will be bred out. Knowingly breeding carrier to carrier is negligent, however, the disease is not recognised by some and not acknowledged by the society. A group of breeders and connemara enthusiasts have worked tirelessly to raise awareness of the breeds plight. They are now trying to ensure that the BCPS do the same.
If anyone is interested in learning more please go to the Hoof Wall Separation Syndrome page on facebook, or the HWSS - one connemara's story page on facebook (full sister to my own gelding - both these ponies have been euthanased before they reached 7)
Thanks for reading
Louise
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Nov 13, 2015 8:04:46 GMT
Good luck to the BCPS, and I hope you get the full co-operation of all breeders. Presumably the test is open to all, so gives the option for a buyer to ask for a negative result before buying a Connie now, that's what I'd want if buying one. It is entirely possible to breed out these deleterious genes from a breed, but the will has to be there.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Nov 13, 2015 8:10:17 GMT
The test is open to all - I now would insist on a test prior to buying - the test only became commercially available after we knew what we had. I believe that Weatherbys are now offering the test. Sadly, as with any problem in a breed, there is a certain amount of apathy, hence the need for an EGM!
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fredaf
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Post by fredaf on Nov 13, 2015 8:58:21 GMT
A test prior to buying could be a sensible suggestion, but to have an EGM almost immediately after an AGM in a society which covers the whole of the UK is quite frankly daft! Much better to extend the AGM time and enable those attending to have a say or consider introducing a postal vote. The cost of testing all stallions in the UK would be huge assuming the society would meet the full cost to owners - and the cost of breeding and registering a foal is also so high in the UK that many people are now buying from Ireland. Maybe the society needs to consider the support it offers to breeders and move forward from the date of the AGM with a test being introduced before stallions can be registered. This could be carried out as part of the vet check which is already in place.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Nov 13, 2015 9:00:40 GMT
As a boring genetics freak, I have followed the Fell Pony problem, and much earlier, the kidney failure one in cocker spaniels which has more in common with the Connies. Not in the genetic mechanism as all are single recessive gene problems, but in that the problem rears its ugly head later on, necessitating the affected animal having to be pts whereas with the Fell pony one the foals weaken and, if not pts first, die. So the impact on the breeder is different.
As I said, good luck to BCPS in getting it sorted out. It wouldn't do much good in PR terms for the future if not, it would just depress the market for Connies when (and it will be when, not if) it became generally known. I'm not a member, not my breed, so can't comment on the society's doings or ways and means, I just hope all are co-operative for the breed's sake.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Nov 13, 2015 9:06:01 GMT
It would have made much more sense to have discussed this at the AGM I agree but according to the BCPS website there is not time. I am not a member, so am not eligible to go to the meeting but I sincerely hope that the BCPS assist their members to eradicate the disease!
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fredaf
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Post by fredaf on Nov 13, 2015 9:27:35 GMT
Well isn't this just the problem - everyone wants the societies of whatever breed to sort things out but they aren't prepared to pay the membership sub which is less than the cost of entry to most HOYS qualifiers!
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Nov 13, 2015 9:48:53 GMT
Must admit I'd agree - you should join lucynlizziesmum! I know many riding only members don't feel the need to join their breed society, but when there is a breed problem like this perhaps the society need the support of all who use and care about the breed to work for a solution, not just the actual breeders. Even if you can't get to the AGMs, not everyone can, but you would still have a vote which used wisely could be valuable.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Nov 13, 2015 10:11:05 GMT
I actually have been thinking of joining for that very reason Sarah P - and no Freda, I don't believe that societies should sort out the problems necessarily, I strongly believe it should be the breeders themselves. However, not all breeders are aware of the existence of HWSS, despite numerous approaches to the society who have the responsibility of registering the animals,, sure,y it is vital that members are made aware of the existence of a problem. For me, I didn't set out to buy a conni - for one he was overheight therefore totally ineligible to be shown as a conni. I bought him as he ticked our other boxes for flat classes, dressage and hunting. And yes I did buy him with poor feet - he passed a 5 stage with the caveat of requiring some attention to the feet.... Little did I know what awaited us. And to be fair what on earth has the cost of a Hoys qualifier got to do with it.
IMHO The really vitally important thing that the society should get out to its members is that these ponies can still be bred from if they are carriers, but don't breed carrier to carrier. At the moment it seems to be head in sand approach and it will go away. Well it won't !
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Nov 13, 2015 11:08:03 GMT
Well please do, it sounds as if your input on publicising the problem is needed. I agree, at the end of the day it's breeders who make their own breeding decisions, but the society should be heavily involved in making sure all breeders know the situation, educating them in regard to the genetics and perhaps writing guidelines, as well as dealing with outside bodies. Making my outsider's point that in the long run it would affect their market could help concentrate their minds! I can remember the lengths we went to in buying a cocker puppy who was not going to die at 2yo of kidney failure, and that was before a test was available, you had to pick brains and follow bloodlines, and I'm sure many who may want to buy a Connie in the future will take similar care once the problem is known, that's if they don't just buy another breed instead.
The Fell Pony Society has made HUGE strides in clearing FIS problem from their stock, and there is no need, using testing and careful choice of matings, to lose any bloodlines from the gene pool. I've just looked on their breed society website, and there is lots of useful stuff on there, do look. The difference of course is that an affected Fell will die as a foal, but an affected Connie can be sold on to develop the actual problem later on. Different physical problem, but the same genetic mechanism.
It also sounds as if vets - at least some of them, need educating! Another job for the breed society.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Nov 13, 2015 16:53:57 GMT
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Post by honeypot on Nov 13, 2015 19:57:41 GMT
I have a basic knowledge HWSD and I am a BCPS member.
Members have only just sent information about EGM in the last month and I would imagine quite a few have no idea about this disease. The cost of breeding Connemara like most ponies far exceeds the price you will ever get for them, in Ireland they breed hundreds that go though the sales whilst most breeders I know only breed at the most 2-3 ponies a year.
I worry that in the rush to 'do something' we will end up will another hurdle for breeders to jump which will probably not really effect the whole Connemara population if non -tested animals are being allowed to breed.
So if I was able to attend, I am working, I would be on the fence wanting more information, because we have not been given much. I think giving the members the opportunity to read about this disease from several sources would have been more helpful and perhaps a six months consultation period before voting took place by post.
Like most breeders I have cut my numbers and have not bred anything for four years and I will have my breeding stock tested.
I am one of these sad people that go through show catalogues looking at the ponies breeding. This should really make people think about the predominance of some sires, line breeding and the eradication of some obviously seen unwanted breed characteristics, that may to the greater chance that more serious inherited diseases as the gene pool become contracted.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Nov 13, 2015 21:13:48 GMT
I agree Honeypot that there is a risk that more hoops could be created and I don't think anybody would wish that. However, the disease needs taking seriously. It is a hugely debilitating problem for an affected pony and the emotional toll let alone the financial toll it takes on an owner is horrendous.
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fredaf
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Post by fredaf on Nov 13, 2015 22:47:34 GMT
Lucynlizzysmum I do hope you will join the BCPS. I'm sorry if you lost a pony to HWSD but very little point in knocking the Briitish breeders most of them aren't breeding anything like the number of ponies that were bee in the UK 10 years ago - its just not viable to do so. Ref the comment about HOYS qualifiers if you consider the cost to enter a class and the number of people doing this sometimes upwards of 10x a year the cost of a breed society subscription of whatever breed is minimal for example most breed societies have a sub of less than £30 a year but an entry into a HOYS qualifier often at double the price due to a late entry can easily exceed £50 and that's without travel costs. Native breeds have become very popular in the last few years but producers and owners who which to keep the supply of ponies coming must be encouraged to join the relevant breed society - its the societies who will try and protect the future of our breeds.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Nov 13, 2015 23:12:44 GMT
Lucynlizzysmum I do hope you will join the BCPS. I'm sorry if you lost a pony to HWSD but very little point in knocking the Briitish breeders most of them aren't breeding anything like the number of ponies that were bee in the UK 10 years ago - its just not viable to do so. Ref the comment about HOYS qualifiers if you consider the cost to enter a class and the number of people doing this sometimes upwards of 10x a year the cost of a breed society subscription of whatever breed is minimal for example most breed societies have a sub of less than £30 a year but an entry into a HOYS qualifier often at double the price due to a late entry can easily exceed £50 and that's without travel costs. Native breeds have become very popular in the last few years but producers and owners who which to keep the supply of ponies coming must be encouraged to join the relevant breed society - its the societies who will try and protect the future of our breeds. Nowhere have I ever knocked a British breeder for breeding an HWSD pony, in fact nowhere have I ever knocked any breeder for breeding one be they British, Irish, Australian, American - I could go on, but I see little point in any breed ignoring a problem, particularly one which is recessive genetic. There is no need at any point to think that animals cannot be bred from because they are carriers - just that sensible breeding needs to take place. As you say it is up to the societies to be proactive and protect the future of their breeds. This is a relatively newly recognised disease - the test only became commercially available in late 2013 - but if breeders could be encouraged to test their breeding stock in order to ensure that no more sufferers are bred, that is relatively easy. To breed it out completely will take a long time - Sarah P will tell you the timing far better than I. |
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Nov 13, 2015 23:16:23 GMT
Further to my comment - a breeder knowingly breeding carrier to carrier - then yes I would blame them for breeding an HWSD pony, but as I say as the disease was only truly recognised in 2013 so is still "new".
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Nov 13, 2015 23:29:29 GMT
No I can't! But I can say that with full co-operation from breeders it should be possible to produce very few if any affected ponies, ie those with two copies of the gene, almost immediately once all breeding stock has been tested. Figures for the Fells are on the Fell Pony society website, and in only a few years they now breed very few affected foals. Removing all carriers, ie those heterozygous for the gene, would take much longer though. And the genetic test for HWSD does already exist, for the two examples I've talked abut above the disease was common and defined before the test was available and the only thing to do was list the parents of affected animals as they had to be carriers.
Honeypot - the link I found above has lots of info' on it from all over the world, and was set up to spread the facts through the Connie community. I breed Welsh, which so far have no nasty genes that I know of, but if I had Fells or Connies I would have all my stock tested too - we do though have greater numbers and hopefully a wider gene pool. I too am a sad soul who goes through catalogues looking at breeding!
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Nov 18, 2015 12:06:33 GMT
Sarah P - I have joined, and shall be at the meeting
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Post by foxylady on Nov 24, 2015 14:01:11 GMT
Sadly the resolution was not carried forward even though there was a good turnout . I believe the British Connemara Pony Society will be addressing the problem at their next meeting there is a statement from Henrietta Knight Chairman on the BCPS website . I would advise anyone purchasing a connemara pony to ensure they have been tested for HWSD the disease affects ponies to a varying degree and therefore may not become apparent until the pony starts to be ridden even if you are purchasing a gelding to ride it is not going to be able to do its job if it is constantly loosing shoes or foot sore because it has to walk on its soles . I am just glad the problem is at last being addressed the old adage definitely rings true in this instance NO FOOT NO HORSE .
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Post by pipandflo on Nov 26, 2015 13:16:50 GMT
We saw a lovely connie when we were pony hunting, thanks to reading lucyandlizzysmum and I think Hunters posts I was vaguely aware of the problem. This pony had bad feet with reasons being given for the state of its feet. We liked it so much that we had a vet to see it saying I was concerned about HWSD and asking about test. Producers refused to test and vet said leave well alone, owner had her back to breed from! Saved from despair by HG
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Nov 26, 2015 15:43:33 GMT
I'm glad we were able to save you from the heartbreak that we have had, and I know Hunter will say the same. It is so important for the breed that animals are tested before breeding and if a carrier are only bred with a non-carrier. That way no more will be bred, but equally the gene pool will not be diminished.
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Post by bigmama on Nov 28, 2015 12:57:46 GMT
Further to my comment - a breeder knowingly breeding carrier to carrier - then yes I would blame them for breeding an HWSD pony, but as I say as the disease was only truly recognised in 2013 so is still "new".
Several years ago, we did purchase a Connemara pony for our teenage daughter and at that time I, a green-horn when it came to Connemaras, was aware of and did know to look for signs of HWSD (thankfully, he did not have a problem with his feet) so I find it hard to accept that a breeder in 2015 is not aware of HWSD, especially as there has been much written about the subject since I was an owner
As for the BCPS not having time to include a discussion on HWSD in it's 2015 AGM, I find this appalling .. surely it must be a priority
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