Unsafe horses and ride judge

[Sanday]

I was at a a show yesterday when I witnessed an awful incident with a ride judge being bucked off I mean this horse wanted the judge off and was nasty with it. What's everyone opinions and would you put a horse forward that has not experienced various jockeys

[pipandwill]

No, absolutely not. Very irresponsible of owners to put animals forward without relevant experience.
I know you cant prepare for all things, but at least have different riders on at different places, male/female, short, tall etc before putting a ride judge on, yes they can refuse to ride a horse, but a horse may appear to be behaving with its usual rider on and then misbehave with a ride judge on because it hasnt had anyone else on it!
I can understand why they are running out of ride judges when people think they can 'blag' it by taking an unsuitable horse to a ride judge, I know of ride judges who have sustained serious injuries including breaking their backs because of falling off as a ride judge.
There's one thing spooking, or maybe being a bit green, forgivable in some circumstances, especially in novices, but totally irresponsible to knowingly put a ride judge on if you think the horse is not ready, or you felt the horse wasnt his usual self in the go round/warming up.

[Sanday]

I believe the horse in question is known to be unpredictable which is sad as now someone is in hospital due to this

[sjw87]

I completely agree that horses should be prepared sufficiently for a ride judge but am so grateful that I only have ponies so never have a ride judge.

For me, it would be nigh on impossible to get a horse prepared enough - I am on my own yard, don't have any horsey family and don't have that many local horsey friends. Paying someone to come and ride them would affect HP status so I'd really struggle.

I hope the ride judge in question has no serious injuries and recovers quickly.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using proboards

[sarahp]

I totally agree about unsafe horses and ride judges, but I must admit I did enjoy the days when some natives had ride judges - always a treat to see one's animal ridden by a really good rider. Occasionally one not so good, but then it's the same for all competitors in the class. In my day of competing my own Ds, there was no such thing as HP anyway, so that didn't come into it, and there was never any trouble finding other riders, daughter rode them as well plus trainers had the odd sit, and I could always ask friends to have a trot round. I would always expect any properly broken animal to be tolerant to strange riders, and even if they find the stranger spoke a slightly different language so to speak they should make the best they can of it without being dangerous.

RWAS used to have top class riders from other disciplines, Richard Meade and Mary King come to mind, and I loved watching them experiencing something completely different to what they were used to! Northleach show used to use ride judges too, and I can remember a hunter ride judge putting as his Ridden Ch a 13hh C one year.

[chloesmum]

Speaking as the mother of a ride judge I have to admit to sometimes thinking ' oh please don't get on that!!'. It has always amazed me how many competitors actually say to the ride judge ' oh this is the first time someone else has ever ridden my horse!'.
I will always be grateful to a very experienced horse judge who was co-judge with Chloe at one of her very first appointments. One horse I could see was getting very hot and strong on the go round I felt it would disappear down the M1 with Chloe! The judge refused to let Chloe ride it, even though she was up for it and she made it really clear to Chloe that there is no shame in saying 'not today thank you' to a competitor and also that if you witnessed bad behaviour and then choose to ride your insurance may not be valid.
A really important point. I think for a lot of young judges they feel they will be seen as wimpy if they don't ride everything and they should heed the advice from experienced judges and not feel pressured. Having said that many times Chloe has ridden something and I have thought 'oh no!' but it has actually gone well for her so I guess the judge makes the descison. They should also feel able to bring something back into line if it is really misbehaving. Judges are often under considerable time pressure so messing around with an uncooperative horse is not on the cards. The other best piece of advice given to her was 'the judge is not there to school the horse but have it presented for ride assessment' so yes it should be up to the competitor to ensure the horse is schooled and ready for a ride judge.
I do hope the poor person in question is not seriously injured and recovers quickly.

[claired]

Are you referring to the incident at Aintree on Saturday ? It was a nasty fall and I hope she is OK. Prior to that, she had given everything she'd ridden in the classes before good rides and I was looking forward to her sitting on my lad.

In answer to the question, then no it is totally unacceptable to put your horse forward KNOWING it is not conditioned to strangers riding it, or that it has behavioural issues that make it unpredictable.

I don't know the horse in question so I cant comment on its behaviour before the accident and I didn't actually see it happen as I was warming up but on asking the ring steward how the judge was and what had happened he said the horse had already been in the same ring twice that morning and had been ridden by the same judge twice with no problems but for some reason it suddenly spooked at the box containing all the rosettes which was at the side of the ring and which it had been past many times previously without any issue. Something caught its eye and it panicked, spun round and bronc'd. As I don't know the horse in question I can't say if it has form for this or whether it was just a freak accident. Of course you can say show horses shouldn't do this but they are not police horses and it just goes to high light the unpredictability of horses in general and the risks riders take.

I'm sure the owner of said horse is mortified. Whilst its fair to discuss the suitability of presenting horses for ride judges as a general point, I don't think its fair to suggest that this owner presented their horse knowing it might do this, as I am guessing none of us know the horse or rider in question ??

[sarahp]

Very well said, and I hadn't forgotten that Chloe ride judges.

The judge, including the ride judge, is boss in the ring, and entirely at liberty to refuse to ride anything too hairy, which by then should have blown its chances on the go round anyway, and to curtail their ride if not happy on the horse/pony. I have seen a judge - rather at the other end of the age scale - refuse to ride one that if I remember rightly was rearing while stood in line, fair enough! The ride judge is there to assess the ride given by the horse, not as you say school it, if it acts or feels dangerous, get off it! Sometimes you can see it happen that the ride judge does ride differently to how the horse is used to being ridden, but that's no excuse, it should do its best for the judge.

[Sanday]

The owner of the horse has openly documented it's behaviour via social media and j believe it's referred to as the bucking broncho yes the judge had ridden it earlier in the day and it was fine but so had the other horses in that class and non of those bucked the rider off. I know horses spook but to then follow it through by ditching the rider that's bad manners

[claired]

How bizarre. Why would you splash that all over social media and then present your horse to be judged. It seems rather stupid & highly irresponsible. But as I say, don’t know horse or rider and have not seen anything on social media from the owner so can’t comment further really.

I am lucky in that I have the most sensible horse in the world who is well prepared and I am confident he will be polite and mannerly, but of course there is always the worry that something happens unexpectedly that causes a horse to take fright and ditch its rider. Accidents can and do happen. That’s different to wilfully trying to ditch the rider in a display of temper and bad manners.

It’s a tough call being a ride judge. You are open to a lot of criticism yet you are getting onto a completely strange horse and trusting that its rider has schooled it & de-sensitised it sufficiently to be a safe ride.

[seahorse73]

I know the horse in question and he has been ridden by ride judges this season and last without any issues. On Saturday the horse spooked at a box and some coats left at the side of the ring which unseated the judge, unsettled the horse and he bucked once, causing the fall. This could have happened to any horse and to condem the horse or rider for this unfortunate incident is just cruel and unnecessary. I'm sure she's upset enough without a witch hunt! Although I have every sympathy with the judge and wish her a speedy recovery, accidents do happen with horses, especially in a job where you ride umpteen unknown horses frequently. As an equine professional myself, it's not unusual to be injured by customer's horses but it's a risk I take without condemning horse or owner to online abuse!!

[Sanday]

No sorry I was there also that horse spooked bronked bucked then dropped its shoulder and shot backwards to me that's not a horse you would like to take hunting

[seahorse73]

I was also there and saw exactly what the horse did. I suggest you stop dramatising the incident because that horse spooked and did one straightforward buck. It didn't bronc or spin or anything else you're suggesting! This was an accident pure and simple. In fact, I believe the judge suggested he was lazy in his first class, not the dangerous buckaroo you seem to have branded him!! I have every sympathy with all concerned with this incident and I'm sure if it had happened to you, you wouldn't want to be called irresponsible or your horse badmouthed all over social media! Grow up and have some compassion!

[Pepper]

I think this post is more questioning how one decides if and when their horse should/could be presented to a ride judge, rather than this particular incident, so to come back on track....

Whilst accidents can happen and unexpected situation arise, horses with known issues should not be presented in classes with a ride judge. It is inappropriate and unfair to expect a ride judge to take that kind of risk. Ground work must be done at home, with different riders in different situations (hacking, schooling, working in a field) before you put your horse under a ride judge. It is also unfair to expect a horse - young or old, to cope with a strange rider if they have not previously experienced having someone different

now don't shoot me down as this is purely an observation, but I also think the experience and ride confidence varies amongst judges. So if you are working up to going under a ride judge and think you're ready, do your home work - if your horse is a novice but ready look for ride judge who is confident and calm, and if your horse has a genuine spook at the flags or wants to stay in line with his friends, a calm and collected judge will effectively ride this through and improve your horses ring confidence.

[Sanday]

Jun 27, 2016 10:48:16 GMT Pepper said:

I think this post is more questioning how one decides if and when their horse should/could be presented to a ride judge, rather than this particular incident, so to come back on track....

Whilst accidents can happen and unexpected situation arise, horses with known issues should not be presented in classes with a ride judge. It is inappropriate and unfair to expect a ride judge to take that kind of risk. Ground work must be done at home, with different riders in different situations (hacking, schooling, working in a field) before you put your horse under a ride judge. It is also unfair to expect a horse - young or old, to cope with a strange rider if they have not previously experienced having someone different

now don't shoot me down as this is purely an observation, but I also think the experience and ride confidence varies amongst judges. So if you are working up to going under a ride judge and think you're ready, do your home work - if your horse is a novice but ready look for ride judge who is confident and calm, and if your horse has a genuine spook at the flags or wants to stay in line with his friends, a calm and collected judge will effectively ride this through and improve your horses ring confidence.

[Sanday]

Well said I agree 100% with your comment

[Sanday]

Jun 27, 2016 10:38:50 GMT seahorse73 said:

I was also there and saw exactly what the horse did. I suggest you stop dramatising the incident because that horse spooked and did one straightforward buck. It didn't bronc or spin or anything else you're suggesting! This was an accident pure and simple. In fact, I believe the judge suggested he was lazy in his first class, not the dangerous buckaroo you seem to have branded him!! I have every sympathy with all concerned with this incident and I'm sure if it had happened to you, you wouldn't want to be called irresponsible or your horse badmouthed all over social media! Grow up and have some compassion!

Not dramatising it I'm saying as it happened if I knew my horse had a bucking behaviour problem I would never present it to be ridden, a horse doesn't need to be sharpe or forward to be bad mannered also why are you taking this post personally really no need to be aggressive

[seahorse73]

I agree entirely with what you say but as I said before, this horse has been ridden by ride judges all last season and this without any problems whatsoever. There was no reason to suspect that Saturday would be any different. I'm sure the rider has put in a lot of time, effort and money with the horse and to be called irresponsible and have someone who doesn't even know the horse keep saying it has "known issues" must be soul-destroying! Especially at amateur level! This could've happened to anyone, so be grateful it wasn't any of you who are leaving negative comments!!

[Sanday]

Seahorse73 I never said it was irresponsible and it was people outside the ring saying this horse was unpredictable I was asking what people thoughts are

[seahorse73]

Sanday, I wasn't accusing you personally. I was addressing anyone who has posted negative comments and believes that a horse that has been ridden by judges for 2 seasons with no problems at all is unpredictable. ALL horses are unpredictable!! Accidents inevitably happen, that's the risk riders take when they get on.

[gillwales]

I am not refering to this incident as I was not there and do not know the horse, however all horses should be prepared for a different jockey, we know that they will be ridden in the ring by a ride judge, therefore it makes sense to school them in this the way you would school them for other parts of the class. I also advise people to prepare their inhand anials by getting everyone that visits to walk around them to get them used to strangers.

It shows the need for everyone to have good quality 3rd party insurence.

However if this happens in an affiliated class more than once then the horse should receive a life time ban, there can be no excuse for putting a Judge in danger, and if it does it more than once in a season then it is not suitable to be a show horse.

[hazeysunshine]

Jun 27, 2016 6:14:54 GMT sarahp said:

I totally agree about unsafe horses and ride judges, but I must admit I did enjoy the days when some natives had ride judges - always a treat to see one's animal ridden by a really good rider. Occasionally one not so good, but then it's the same for all competitors in the class. In my day of competing my own Ds, there was no such thing as HP anyway, so that didn't come into it, and there was never any trouble finding other riders, daughter rode them as well plus trainers had the odd sit, and I could always ask friends to have a trot round. I would always expect any properly broken animal to be tolerant to strange riders, and even if they find the stranger spoke a slightly different language so to speak they should make the best they can of it without being dangerous.

RWAS used to have top class riders from other disciplines, Richard Meade and Mary King come to mind, and I loved watching them experiencing something completely different to what they were used to! Northleach show used to use ride judges too, and I can remember a hunter ride judge putting as his Ridden Ch a 13hh C one year.

I was talking about it being a shame natives don't have ride judges anymore. We got on to it because my friend stole my friend for a lesson and was saying can feel how much work has gone into getting him well schooled and it's a shame a judge would never feel that.

[sarahp]

Yes, sometimes a good rider can make something look as if it's giving a better ride than it actually is, it does really take a third party to assess a classful accurately. Mind you, some people don't like it - not all ride judges are equal! I'm not that precious about it, I don't think a short ride by an unsuitable rider in the show ring will damage my horse, but some owners don't like it.

[hazeysunshine]

Jun 27, 2016 16:14:43 GMT sarahp said:

Yes, sometimes a good rider can make something look as if it's giving a better ride than it actually is, it does really take a third party to assess a classful accurately. Mind you, some people don't like it - not all ride judges are equal! I'm not that precious about it, I don't think a short ride by an unsuitable rider in the show ring will damage my horse, but some owners don't like it.

Same, it wouldn't bother me. He's too chilled out to be bothered by who is riding him.