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Post by pipandwill on Aug 3, 2016 10:11:25 GMT
Just something I have seen more and more often recently.
For instance, I was competing at the RI last week, and my poor pony was cantered into, cut up, boxed in, overtook every single time on the longside in front of the judges, and after changing the rein (we were first to change rein) after proceeding back into canter on the other rein, the competitors who were just about to change rein didn't move off the track to pass us, so I had no other alternative then to stop, at which point everyone behind us kept cantering right up my ponies backside.
Poor boy became really unsettled, it was by far the worst ringcraft I have ever encountered, I dont know whether it was because it was at the ri and everyone was in some sort of frenzy to get noticed, but I was appalled, I have always been taught to circle, and give others plenty of room- but most thought they were the only ones that mattered in that ring.
I wasn't even the only person to notice, various other competitors commented on it, and even some spectators came to speak to me after my class about it.
I think its totally unacceptable, and wondered if there would be some way to police it? And stewards /officials/judges could report very bad/repeated bad ringcraft and after so many 'strikes' there was some sort of consequence?
As if it is allowed to carry on it will just get worse!
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Aug 3, 2016 10:43:31 GMT
Twas ever thus! To some extent at least. The first time I rode in the ring, on my novice 4yo D mare, I was told afterwards that totally unbeknownst to me someone kept riding a stallion up her bum, obviously trying to unsettle her, which it didn't.
One small piece of advice is to train your pony to leg yield easily and readily on command at any pace, all mine did and I found it really useful at times.
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Post by claired on Aug 3, 2016 10:58:52 GMT
I had this too a bit, although I am afraid I too had to over take a couple of times. But on the whole the competitors in our class were all polite and mannerly. The problem was there were too many horses for the size of the ring and the state of the ground was awful. I took the inside track in our ring to get the best of the grass cover. Unfortunately it meant I over took a couple of times, but then everyone started to have the same idea. And with a lot of horses in the ring there was nowhere to circle back into. But I think everyone was just trying to find space and better ground rather than it being poor ring manners.
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Post by pipandwill on Aug 3, 2016 13:36:47 GMT
There's no harm over taking, providing you give the pony plenty of space and its not I'm front of the judge! All mine leg yield in walk, trot and canter, but it was beyond a joke the other day, I was at NPS yesterday with 14/15 15 handers in a tiny ring and everyone managed to keep out of others way, so its possible even in a small ring!
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Post by jacksprat on Aug 4, 2016 6:27:37 GMT
i am afraid this is all too common . It is really the job of the Stewards to spot this behavior and take appropriate action,some years ago at PUK Summer champs this happened to my daughter in a Kingsford Novice final, one rider purposely ran her into the ring ropes, i imagine as they thought she was going to beat them, however, the judge and Stewards seemingly had eyes in the back of their heads and about 5 people were asked to leave the class on the go-round for similar behavior.
We went on to stand 4th
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Aug 4, 2016 7:33:56 GMT
Janet Bushell pointed this out not long ago, when changing the rein, those on the right rein should take the inside track thus passing left to left. This seems to have gone out of the window, I got cross with my daughter just recently as she had passed others going down in front of the judge, in her defence, the judge had turned round from where they had been watching and trying to circle into a space was not really an option as there were so many, but she should have been more alert to the fact the judge had altered. General etiquette full stop seems to have gone out of the window. Standing in a collecting ring with your horses backside facing inward is one of my pet hates, and I am known for chucking them out at our indoor shows where working in area is tight! Perhaps it is time for showing world, H & H etc to publish about ring etiquette.
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Post by bigmama on Aug 4, 2016 8:38:49 GMT
Janet Bushell pointed this out not long ago, when changing the rein, those on the right rein should take the inside track thus passing left to left. This seems to have gone out of the window, I got cross with my daughter just recently as she had passed others going down in front of the judge, in her defence, the judge had turned round from where they had been watching and trying to circle into a space was not really an option as there were so many, but she should have been more alert to the fact the judge had altered. General etiquette full stop seems to have gone out of the window. Standing in a collecting ring with your horses backside facing inward is one of my pet hates, and I am known for chucking them out at our indoor shows where working in area is tight! Perhaps it is time for showing world, H & H etc to publish about ring etiquette. |
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Post by sjw87 on Aug 4, 2016 9:01:17 GMT
The collecting ring scenario is an absolute bug bear of mine. As is leaving the ring and going about 2/3 strides before stopping dead and preventing anyone else from getting out of the ring!
I do think it's very important though for stewards to make directions clear and loud (if verbal) as they could request competitors to come onto the inside track to prevent a crash. Obviously they can't prevent bad ringcraft in the sense of cutting up etc which should be penalised but a competitor new to showing sometime needs guidance so may genuinely not know to move onto the inside track
Sent from my SM-A300FU using proboards
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Post by gail96 on Aug 4, 2016 9:05:44 GMT
This happened a lot yesterday at NPS - in more then one class and the whole ring was bought to a standstill because of it, its really not that difficult to come onto the inside track so the leader of the rein change can continue but it seems a lot of people have "forgotten" - Caused a bit of a who har when the lady at the front of the ride then proceeded straight into a canter which left a few of the younger ponies thinking it was a race!!
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fredaf
Junior Member
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Post by fredaf on Aug 4, 2016 18:43:13 GMT
Manners and common sense seem to be lacking in many instances at the moment. Much of the behaviour seen this year just would not have been tolerated a few years ago. There seem to be less study days/breed demos now - maybe people are too busy chasing qualifiers than learning what to do or how to behave!
I was shocked at the behaviour of the handler/stallion in a mixed sex/breed class at a show I attended recently. I had a novice mare previously unshown who fortunately turned out to be quite laid back and was briefed by a friend beforehand at the ringside to make sure my pony was always behind said stallion. Had I been judging the stallion would have been asked to leave the ring after the first go round. The judge, who was obviously familiar with the pony, told the handler to go first in the class, she was lucky its feet missed her head on a number of occasions. When it wouldn't stand to receive the FIRST place rosette it still wasn't put out! This was an accident waiting to happen and as suggested by my friend the judge (who I assume was acquainted with the breed in question) has now been added to my little black book.
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Aug 4, 2016 19:17:12 GMT
As for the passing left to left thing, I learned this as a child for every riding situation - riding in a school, warming up in a collecting ring, whenever, as a matter of safety. Then of course I would do so automatically in the show ring. When did this change?
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Aug 4, 2016 19:30:03 GMT
As for the passing left to left thing, I learned this as a child for every riding situation - riding in a school, warming up in a collecting ring, whenever, as a matter of safety. Then of course I would do so automatically in the show ring. When did this change? It does not appear to be common knowledge anymore Sarah - I remember not so many years ago at a PC indoor show, warm up was tight - I had sat and watched a number of near collisions, and then lo and behold someone fetches a youngster in on the lunge! I think that common sense has gone completely out of the window! |
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Post by hazeysunshine on Aug 4, 2016 20:20:01 GMT
I've been boxed in, cut up and blocked too many times to count.
However I was at NPS show last year and Peter boustead was judging my ring. I watched a few classes and in one instance there was one person hogging the inside track, blocking etc. This pony was by far the nicest in the ring however he put it bottom of the line. I could only assume it was down to bad ringcraft as when you Google him it says he looks for good manners/ringcraft.
So there are judges out there who will pull up on it thankfully.
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Post by delbel on Aug 4, 2016 22:47:39 GMT
I was at a show last week and the steward ask them to gallop (small ring they all heard it) on the long side and as one pony was about to set off another adult rider with no excuse went on the inside of her got close causing her pony to buck as it set off, neither were placed and the judge looked to have a word once she had given the rosettes, I'm pretty sure the judge was telling the rider they would have been reserve or champ had they not done that!
Really annoys me in first ridden classes when the kids nearly fight for a place at the top end when they tell them to come into the line up
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Aug 5, 2016 8:12:35 GMT
I was at a show last week and the steward ask them to gallop (small ring they all heard it) on the long side and as one pony was about to set off another adult rider with no excuse went on the inside of her got close causing her pony to buck as it set off, neither were placed and the judge looked to have a word once she had given the rosettes, I'm pretty sure the judge was telling the rider they would have been reserve or champ had they not done that! Really annoys me in first ridden classes when the kids nearly fight for a place at the top end when they tell them to come into the line up At Champs a few years ago we were competing in the 4/5/6 yr old class, everyone jostled in for top of the line when they called them in, as usual my daughter was last to come in, so the judge started her end of the line - made me giggle LOL |
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Post by justjay on Aug 18, 2016 11:18:53 GMT
We had this at Honiton - there appeared to be a group of "professional" who complained in loud voices because the judge had gone to the loo - she had only been in the ring for about 2 hours - then when the gallop canme up they all bunched together in the corner so they could go in turn but stopping anybody else - we were rather glad that the "spokesperson" didnt get placed but he then complained ina loud voice and said the steward was rude at which point she said "well so are you" or words to that effect
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Post by cg on Aug 18, 2016 11:37:54 GMT
The only time I am aware of that you do not pass left to left is in a side saddle class, as the ladies legs are to the left so you should pass right hand to right hand, however this is not adhered to in a Ladies Hunter class as far as I am aware I have only seen it in affiliated SSA classes.
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Post by haggis on Aug 18, 2016 12:30:51 GMT
have to say as a steward i do say very loudly "stay on the inside track please" as the change the ring at the corner but do they ----- nope well some do
also say don't bunch up
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Post by janetbushell on Aug 18, 2016 13:31:00 GMT
have to say as a steward i do say very loudly "stay on the inside track please" as the change the ring at the corner but do they ----- nope well some do also say don't bunch up I usually have to say it at least 3 times - getting louder each time & still often get greeted with blank stares! |
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Post by CarolineNelson on Aug 19, 2016 6:00:28 GMT
have to say as a steward i do say very loudly "stay on the inside track please" as the change the ring at the corner but do they ----- nope well some do also say don't bunch up I usually have to say it at least 3 times - getting louder each time & still often get greeted with blank stares! I agree - it's never "them" or "their fault" is it? You get the "who, me?" stare! The rein changing issue - stewarding big classes I will put my life on the line and WALK in a very positive manner facing the oncoming 'still not changed rein' riders repeating 'take an inside track-take an inside track-take an inside track' to push them in off the outside track so those who have changed can continue on the left rein without breaking pace. It's only common sense. Anyone who has stewarded with me will know my regular comment - "these are (mostly) ADULTS for goodness sake. Their 'traffic awareness' is minimal. Yet, they drive metal boxes on busy roads". Scary! It is not, as the OP expressed it, "Bad ringcraft". It is not 'ringcraft' at all. Ringcraft is an art. |
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Post by maxandpaddy on Aug 19, 2016 9:51:00 GMT
What annoys me is that you see this at its worst in top level showing where you'd expect the ringcraft skills to be the best!....go figure
My own daughter had to actually learn to not be so nice - not to let riders barge her out of the way, not to be intimidated when they all CHARGE in for the line up, to pick her spot in the go around and actually defend it, and sadly not to stand back (a bit like the underground where you hold the door open for one and 20 march past you)
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Post by CarolineNelson on Aug 19, 2016 10:10:33 GMT
What annoys me is that you see this at its worst in top level showing where you'd expect the ringcraft skills to be the best!....go figure My own daughter had to actually learn to not be so nice - not to let riders barge her out of the way, not to be intimidated when they all CHARGE in for the line up, to pick her spot in the go around and actually defend it, and sadly not to stand back (a bit like the underground where you hold the door open for one and 20 march past you) That awful "CHARGE" for the line-up can easily be avoided by sensible, positive stewarding. Once back to walk - and if the class is not to be placed in an order, they can be asked to file in one behind the other along the chosen 'line' upon which to form the line-up. If I'm judging and I feel the stewards perhaps lack the experience, I will explain procedure to them including rein change, how they are lined up etc. Ideally, to line them up, two stewards. One to pull the riders in off the track and the other, working together, to 'park' them in safety. Following on from the other thread here on the topic of the deficit of helpers at shows, classes are often under stewarded due to lack of 'man (or woman!)power. It is taken for granted that Stewards can be in ten places at once. So perhaps some of the posters on this thread could take a turn at stewarding which would by much appreciated - and is an educational, rewarding and (sometimes!) fun way of putting back to the sport. |
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fredaf
Junior Member
Posts: 173
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Post by fredaf on Aug 19, 2016 13:18:53 GMT
Good points Caroline, one of the other things to watch for is competitors deciding to 'place' themselves while the steward isn't looking!!
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Post by mandmgirl0164 on Aug 20, 2016 13:08:02 GMT
It boils down to plain bad manners really! You need eyes in back of head/radar to avoid some of the perpetrators. Some riders would help themselves by looking up/not wrapped up in their own little bubble, instead of down at the ground and being much more aware of what is happening around them in order to take subtle evasive action.
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