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Post by sjw87 on Aug 15, 2016 16:32:18 GMT
The discussion about guidelines for rider weights made me think about how many other aspects of showing or common practices put horses at risk. I know that there are good and bad in all spheres but what things do people think could be addressed by showing societies for the better of our equines?
A few thoughts below that people may or may not agree with and are completely open to discussion as well as adding more/any thoughts.
- A time limit on working in?
- Gadgets being used whilst working in. Should horses only be worked in wearing the same tack as in the ring?
- Dope testing. Yes there are rules against this and a list of banned substances but how often is dope testing actually carried out?
- The ground conditions in some show rings. Dressage and jumping competitors would never be asked to compete on some of the ground we show on.
- Shows scheduling 'not before times' to help prevent horses having to stand on lorries for longer than necessary.
- No lungeing of youngstock.
- Harsh bits. The length of shanks on some pelhams/weymouths seem to be getting longer.
Obviously no amount of rules at a competition will change what people do at home but may be a good start.
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Post by janetbushell on Aug 15, 2016 16:34:40 GMT
BSPS already have the rule regarding only tack allowed in the show ring being used for working in
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Post by thegroom on Aug 15, 2016 17:33:45 GMT
I believe that ponies should be able to have a novice season and should not be able to qualify for HOYS/RI as a 4 year old.
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Post by chloesmum on Aug 15, 2016 19:18:45 GMT
Totally agree re ground conditions I subtimes think as showing comptitors we have MUG written over our faces. The River Lawn is a disgrace and I am convinced that the RIHS get more levy money from M&M comptetitors than any other discipline. How there was not a serious accident this year is a relief but the poor lead rein pony that fell should be a warning for all.
It was no better at Stoneleigh - appalling rings for the showing competitors.
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Post by the showing register on Aug 15, 2016 19:56:28 GMT
You are quite right there are lots of other issues which you list and others such as the amount of travelling some animals clock up. I also agree about 4 year olds nothing beats time with a baby.
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Post by welshshowcobs on Aug 16, 2016 7:37:37 GMT
Totally agree re ground conditions I subtimes think as showing comptitors we have MUG written over our faces. The River Lawn is a disgrace and I am convinced that the RIHS get more levy money from M&M comptetitors than any other discipline. How there was not a serious accident this year is a relief but the poor lead rein pony that fell should be a warning for all. It was no better at Stoneleigh - appalling rings for the showing competitors. Exactly why I will never bother doing RIHS, I've seen better rings at riding club level! |
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Post by catkin on Aug 16, 2016 14:28:22 GMT
This is tricky. Whilst I am absolutely committed to all animal welfare, I am not sure that some of these suggestions are always possible (good going), enforceable (time spent working in) or necessary (bit shank lengths - a snaffle is cruel in the wrong hands). And, adding more burdens of legislation in what is mostly a voluntary set of organisers makes me wonder if they will bother to continue. What we all need to do as owners, judges, spectators and competitors is to be educated and open minded enough to look after our own animals. If we start with that premise, the equine world would be a better place. On the novices, this is something as a family we have always enforced with our own young animals. However, I know personally of two ponies who won or were well placed at HOYS in their first season who have gone on to have long and happy careers. Again, back to owner responsibility for gauging what is right and wrong for their own stock? Sorry if I sound negative, I do support fully the intentions of the OP, just not sure how practical the solutions are. On a positive note, I have long said that true novice championships (like NPS have for natives with the Picton) would be fantastic for the plaited. Something to aim at other than RIHS and HOYS and I would like us all to start appreciating older flat animals. Try selling a 10 year old show pony and you will know what I mean! Interesting debate!
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Post by sjw87 on Aug 16, 2016 14:35:06 GMT
Interesting replies. I don't expect societies to make rules against everything mentioned but just wanted to open it up for discussion as I'm sure most of us have witnessed things at shows that make us cringe.
I am genuinely interested to know whether anyone has ever witnessed dope testing in the show ring or if anyone has been proven to have flaunted the rules of prohibited substances? All societies have rules against their use but are they enforced?
Aside from the fact that substances can give an unfair advantage in the ring (sedative, pain relief, steroids etc), it's the fact that they can also put equines at risk. An animal being competed on bute may injure itself further or steroids (particularly their withdrawal) can have serious side effects.
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Post by janetbushell on Aug 16, 2016 14:50:54 GMT
I witnessed dope testing at Royal Windsor this year (on the Sunday)
Our Section A (FR) was also dope tested at a PUK show many years ago (all clear!!!) - later the grape vine told me that it was because she went differently in this class than in the Open Ridden - well my answer was that one would hope so - child rode her in double reins & asked for a much more forward going show including a brilliant gallop!
I have also been the chief steward responsible for the winning animal in a particular class not leaving the ring until escorted by the dope testing officer at the NPS championships a few years ago. I was told in confidence that this would happen to ensure that I did not let it leave the ring, but there was no suggestion that anyone believed a certain animal would win, just that the winner was chosen.
BSPS post the results of the testing on their website now.
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Post by janetbushell on Aug 16, 2016 14:57:27 GMT
Regarding 4 year olds & novice classes - when we did most of our competing ponies denoviced at 4 (& there were few novice classes - the Picton was limited to about 20 (25?) qualifiers around the whole country & as we liked to give ours a season as a novice we did other classes eg SP, SHP classes so that we could avoid denovicing but gain valuable experience. Now under all the pony societies it is quite possible to compete & retain novice status.
One of our ponies was very mature mentally & physically & did the Cherif Champs as a 4 year old (& won!) but both his full brothers were not ready at this age. I do believe that owners need to take some responsibility for their choices
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Post by chloesmum on Aug 16, 2016 15:21:56 GMT
Totally agree with catkin so many things are just not enforceable and actually should they be? We all have different opinions.
4 year olds is an interesting point and whilst we have never had a 4 year old ready to contest HOYS qualifiers (usually not even ready to contest a novice final!!) without doubt there have been some ponies that have won HOYS as a 4 year old and gone on to have really successful careers.
I personally like ours to do a full novice season, perhaps judges should be more aware of age, but again if they believe that is the best pony in the class then of course they will award it with a ticket, although there are a couple of native judges who do not like to see 4 year olds in HOYS/RIHS qualifiers and will comment to riders accordingly. However I do think it should be down to the owners to decide, last year our 5 year old C mare in her first season suddenly matured mid-season, qualified and did well at HOYS, however our 5 year old Dartmoor this season would definately not be ready for an open class, and may stay novice all next season as well. Horses for courses as they say!
That is why we love BSPS Winter Champs and Heritage as opportunity to bring out novices and also why it was great to see NPS Picton classes better supported this year, remember though some of us have novices who are way over 4!
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Post by thegroom on Aug 16, 2016 16:01:30 GMT
I think it is a shame that you can't take a 4yr old to the winter champs without the possibility that it might have to do an evening performance, why can't the novice classes but exempt from the buzz of an evening especially at the winter when these ponies are possibly at the very start of their careers?
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Aug 16, 2016 16:14:44 GMT
My D mare was tested at the NPS Chs years ago now - negative! I THINK it was after she'd just qualified for Olympia but could be wrong. All done very politely and efficiently, no complaints from me.
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Post by chloesmum on Aug 16, 2016 16:23:24 GMT
I actually disagree re the novice evening performance. Certainly the BSPS Winter and Heritage evening performances are nothing like the old BSPS/PUK days and our 4 year old won his novice class last year and had no issues in the evening performance, it was really good experience for him.
I guess again if you are worried then don't put your pony back in but I do think they are so much quieter now and be valuable experience.
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Post by thegroom on Aug 16, 2016 17:41:29 GMT
I actually disagree re the novice evening performance. Certainly the BSPS Winter and Heritage evening performances are nothing like the old BSPS/PUK days and our 4 year old won his novice class last year and had no issues in the evening performance, it was really good experience for him. I guess again if you are worried then don't put your pony back in but I do think they are so much quieter now and be valuable experience. I think a valuable experience later in the season but the winter champs seems too early.....just my opinion |
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Post by chloesmum on Aug 16, 2016 19:46:40 GMT
Actually I do get what you mean - for us they have always done a season before doing Novice finals. For a 4 year old at first big show it might be a bit awe inspiring!
Thats where Heritage is lovely as end of the season.
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Post by bubbles1822 on Aug 17, 2016 5:36:51 GMT
I have a 6 year old stallion fell pony who has literally done a handful of shows, took him to stoneleigh all for experience as we were taking another for the same class. Next year going to bring him out for the nps classes etc as he is still very inmature and mentally wasn't there yet!
I don't like seeing 4/5 year old doing hours of travelling up and down to chase qualifiers as especially in the m&m they don't really full mature until 7/8. I think Olympia used to have an age limited of 5 instead of 4 for the m&m section...
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