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Post by at work nli on Oct 6, 2017 9:18:52 GMT
Just been looking at the marks sheets for the M&M ridden classes. There appear to have only been 10 forward for the New Forests while there were 26 forward for the Fells and Dales. I'm guessing the split was around 50/50 so I don't understand why there is this resistance to splitting the Fells and Dales.
I've nothing against New Forests but why should there be a class of only 10 and then a class of 26? I realise the New Forests used to be with the Connemaras and when they split that class the New Forests got their own class it's just with the quality of the hairy ponies surely we should be acknowledging each as a breed in their own right?
And why have 10 breed only qualifiers and then put them together at the final?
The tight timetable argument doesn't stack up, HOYS added a second junior M&M class and a championship this year.
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Post by pipandwill on Oct 6, 2017 10:29:45 GMT
Unless I'm mistaken, grandstand allocate the hoys qualifiers, and it was their decision to put the new forests with the fells etc this year. There a few if any showing people within grandstand, and it appears to be down to what will just make them the most money rather than what's best.
The new forests are actually quite a popular class, and do deserve to have their own class, as does every breed. Only a handful of new forests qualified in the mixed class, so that's why there were only 10 forward.
I personally find it bizarre that classes such as the m&m workers have competitively so so few qualifiers compared to a class such as the hunters/workers- rarely will you see many less than 25 entered in a m&m worker class, yet at ashby this year there were 3/4 heavyweight hunters in the hoys qualifier?!?!?
As we mainly do the pony scene, it is so much harder to qualify as there are such fewer qualifiers than the horses have. Makes no sense at all to me but then again showing rarely does!!
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Post by lalalaa on Oct 11, 2017 7:02:08 GMT
100% agree with this. Both the fell class and the dales class is more than strong enough for it to be split. Also don't understand why when it's one of the most popular classes why they moved it to 7am?
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Post by hazeysunshine on Oct 11, 2017 7:18:59 GMT
I’ve contacted grandstand a few times about this and had no response I’ll do it again this year. The quality of the ponies is high and it was pretty much a 50/50 split so they should have their own class. It’s ridiculous that they have a combined class.
Maybe it’s something the breed society’s should take on as well, if everyone questions it they might do something.
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Post by hazeysunshine on Oct 11, 2017 18:52:24 GMT
I emailed them again and got this response....
Each year we analyse all the Horse of the Year Show qualifiers that take place throughout the season. This analysis includes looking closely at the numbers of each breed coming forward for the Mountain and Moorland classes. As a result of this there where various changes made to the class between the 2016 and 2017 season. Due to the number of Connemara’s contesting HOYS qualifiers throughout the 2016 season and the continued increase in numbers, Horse of the Year Show recognised this by ensuring that the breed consistently has standalone qualifiers for HOYS in 2017. This resulted in some changes to the qualifiers throughout the 2017 season and will see some qualifiers with a mixed large breeds class consisting of Fells, Dales, Highlands and New Forest ponies. The total number of M&M open qualifying places at HOYS 2017 was also increased from 176 to 182. After looking at the numbers coming forward for 2016 qualifiers the Fells and dales breed represented just 10 % of the M&M ponies coming forward into the HOYS qualifiers. A further change in 2017 was that we also ensured that each large breed M&M has a minimum 10 direct qualifiers throughout the showing season, to ensure that all breeds are well represented at HOYS 2017. The 2017 qualifier data will be reviewed over the next month and any required changes actioned accordingly
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Post by pipandwill on Oct 11, 2017 19:50:10 GMT
But I bet the pony classes in general will still remain with comparitively very few qualifiers compared to the horse qualifiers. Like I said above, at ashby this year there were no more than 4 heavyweight hunters in the hoys qualifier. I personally can't think of any qualifier this year within the pony classes, both m&m and plaited with any less than that. Similarly with some of the hack classes- so how do they continue to have so many qualifiers and all ponies have so few.
Not saying that those horses that qualify in the classes with fewer in are of any less quality, but there are so many exceptional ponies that haven't qualified this year because of the comparatively few qualifiers.
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Post by pipandwill on Oct 11, 2017 19:58:04 GMT
Further on to the above, the m&m workers have 17 qualifiers, which out of the ones I counted (I didn't count all class qualifiers) was the lowest?! I just don't understand this, every height division is so highly fought out, why do they have so few? Similarly in the flat m&ms - having looked into it more, unless I'm mistaken, not a single new forest qualified in the mixed class, only at shows with specific qualifiers, so it's purely just made them more money. There's no reason why all the breeds shouldn't have their own class- I find it all quite bizarre!
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Post by lalalaa on Oct 11, 2017 20:10:00 GMT
I emailed them again and got this response.... Each year we analyse all the Horse of the Year Show qualifiers that take place throughout the season. This analysis includes looking closely at the numbers of each breed coming forward for the Mountain and Moorland classes. As a result of this there where various changes made to the class between the 2016 and 2017 season. Due to the number of Connemara’s contesting HOYS qualifiers throughout the 2016 season and the continued increase in numbers, Horse of the Year Show recognised this by ensuring that the breed consistently has standalone qualifiers for HOYS in 2017. This resulted in some changes to the qualifiers throughout the 2017 season and will see some qualifiers with a mixed large breeds class consisting of Fells, Dales, Highlands and New Forest ponies. The total number of M&M open qualifying places at HOYS 2017 was also increased from 176 to 182. After looking at the numbers coming forward for 2016 qualifiers the Fells and dales breed represented just 10 % of the M&M ponies coming forward into the HOYS qualifiers. A further change in 2017 was that we also ensured that each large breed M&M has a minimum 10 direct qualifiers throughout the showing season, to ensure that all breeds are well represented at HOYS 2017. The 2017 qualifier data will be reviewed over the next month and any required changes actioned accordingly But all that it's doing putting more breeds together is putting more and more people off doing them. I'm sure most people with new forests haven't wanted to do the mixed breed classes unless the judge is known to be good for the breed.
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Post by hazeysunshine on Oct 11, 2017 20:23:20 GMT
I know it doesn’t make sense at all, I bet when they do the analysis this year they will find that the number of new forests forward has significantly decreased. I have a fell and if my class was welsh c, d and fell not a chance I’d bother entering. The 10 standalone qualifiers was a good idea definitely but they’ve screwed new forests over id say. When I got that email back I was just like huh, it’s saying a lot without saying much at all
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Post by chloesmum on Oct 12, 2017 8:11:39 GMT
Not claiming to be an expert on this as we don't have a Fell/Dale or New Forest but I feel fairly sure that not one NF qualified in a mixed class? I also agree that I don't think many NF competitors bothered to do the mixed classes but stayed in their own breed class. Yes it was always tough in the Connies as well but we had a NF who won a HOYS mixed class a few years ago and I think one or two did qualify every year in the mixed class. It is a tough call but at least it is good to know that HOYS do analyse class entries and review popularity. With regards to Horse Classes I think numbers have diminished over many years but there is a long tradition of these classes and I was always told 'sponsors' play a big part!! I actually think Hack classes have been on the rise but can't swear to that just an observation, more young ridere seem to be coming into them which is good news.
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