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Post by whatshappened on Oct 16, 2017 8:52:20 GMT
What's happened to the kids these days, and the standard of riding in general?
Having grown up in pony club, having quite a few ponies, all purchased from a local sale for no more than a few hundred pounds each, regularly falling off, being taken off with etc, I like to think it really taught me to ride from a young age. A similar case with a few of my pony club friends, not only did we learn to ride, but we also were drilled with horse care- yet I have recently heard from bd that some children in the byrds squad, can't put a bridle on!
In addition, living in an era whereby everything is done online, the large array of wanted adverts- parents want a perfect pony, no bucking, napping, must not pull or be to lazy, must go in a snaffle, I even read one recently that stated the pony must go out and win in order to keep the child interested!
Although I can understand parents want their kids to be safe, how can they possibly learn to REALLY ride without actually being challenged- falling off is part and parcel of the path to being a good rider.
I have sold a few kids ponies, I would class them all as kids ponies- all were safe, but not push button, a child would still need to actually ride them,yet so few kids could even get them to go? It just shocks me, what's happening to getting back on when they fall off? Pony club kicking and not giving up.
Health and safety has gone mad!
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Post by Philippa on Oct 16, 2017 9:26:41 GMT
Don’t you think money is a major factor in this??
When I was young I had scraps of ponies from the sales, some good, some very bad but if I wanted to jump I had to make them into jumping ponies and if I wanted to show same again. I wouldn’t put my daughter on most of the ponies I rode as they were mostly dodgy.
It’s easier to buy a better quality pony nowadays as there is generally more money available to do so.
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Post by gillwales on Oct 16, 2017 9:49:12 GMT
I think a lot is down to the fact that when teaching you are no longer able to put limbs etc into the correct position. Health and safety and PC gone mad.
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Post by lastchance on Oct 16, 2017 11:10:19 GMT
If there is more money around these days it doesn't appear to be going on lessons. I'm thinking of show pony jockeys in particular and the abundance of "knees out, heels up and kick kick kicking" to be seen, even in some instances still evident when they've moved on to intermediates.
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Post by Philippa on Oct 16, 2017 12:24:54 GMT
If there is more money around these days it doesn't appear to be going on lessons. I'm thinking of show pony jockeys in particular and the abundance of "knees out, heels up and kick kick kicking" to be seen, even in some instances still evident when they've moved on to intermediates. Maybe the only way to keep them going is to kick kick kick after all the dope they’ve had!!! Sorry, different topic!! I personally can’t stand kick kick kick either but it seems to be the norm. In our house it’s usially me saying don’t kick unless I tell you to lol
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Post by ponymum on Oct 16, 2017 12:31:13 GMT
Saw a wonderful example of this yesterday , a local Know it all who likes to teach kids and take money for it , and low and behold , terrible posture , tipping forward , looking down and leaning forward when asking for a canter transition .......I had to depart before I made my feelings known!!!!
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Post by Seenit on Oct 16, 2017 15:33:06 GMT
Saw a wonderful example of this yesterday , a local Know it all who likes to teach kids and take money for it , and low and behold , terrible posture , tipping forward , looking down and leaning forward when asking for a canter transition .......I had to depart before I made my feelings known!!!! North west by any chance If not I know of the same n thought the same 😂
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Post by Giveover on Oct 16, 2017 20:58:08 GMT
I'm sure there was some pretty poor riders in years gone by too! Bit unfair to sit and say all young riders in this generation are letting the standard down. 🙄
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Post by Philippa on Oct 16, 2017 23:20:33 GMT
I'm sure there was some pretty poor riders in years gone by too! Bit unfair to sit and say all young riders in this generation are letting the standard down. 🙄 I don't think they are meaning all. Maybe just in the majority?? I've seen & know some fantastic young jockeys who could outride many adults.
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Post by CarolineNelson on Oct 17, 2017 7:01:16 GMT
I think a lot is down to the fact that when teaching you are no longer able to put limbs etc into the correct position. Health and safety and PC gone mad. Actually you can, GW, but you have to ask . . . . " do you mind / are you ok / if I touch your . . . " (shoulders / leg or whatever).
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Post by catkin on Oct 17, 2017 7:26:36 GMT
I think this is a bit of a sweeping statement. There are some very, very good jockeys 'doing' showing, some average and some poor. Pretty much the same as it ever was! It is so much harder to get the (what I call) rough riding experience for your children. We live about five miles from where I grew up. However, lanes I would have regularly hacked on from quite young are now totally unsuitable due to much heavier traffic, the various little cross country competitions etc, just don't exist and bridleways are full of walkers and bikes. More parents work and children have a lot more homework meaning that time is tight. Lots of my friends had ponies at very inexpensive livery turned out most of the year which is something virtually impossible to find round us any more. People hacked to local shows and did a variety of classes. So, all in all, sadly I think this leads to children riding in quite controlled situations much of the time rather than learning through independent, varied riding. Many of us work very hard to offset this loss, and of course have regular instruction, but it is very challenging at times! The time and money aspects also seem to mean that children 'specialise' earlier which again provides fewer learning opportunities.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Oct 17, 2017 7:50:48 GMT
There are lots and lots of things with regards to kids and ponies these days. Now it seems a pony is linked to one discipline - as a kid the majority of ponies had to do a bit of everything, now you need one for this, one for that etc. I was lucky at school to ride at Harrogate Equestrian when Major Birtwhistle was alive and I remember having jumping lessons without saddles, let alone without stirrups - in todays litigious society that would not happen. Also we used to jump on a pony and ride for miles, over all sorts of different ground - again it taught you a lot - not least to be aware of whats going on. I think Caroline it is difficult to put a child in the correct position now - at a private lesson it is probably okay where parent is present, but certainly is a no-no now at PC where my girls were members. I also personally believe that a lot of ponies are pushed too hard as 4/5 year olds before they are mentally ready - but that is a different topic entirely!!
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Post by ponymum on Oct 17, 2017 8:05:12 GMT
I agree with you on that point too lucynlizzysmum !! (ponies do too much as 4/5 yr olds!)
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Post by ponymum on Oct 17, 2017 8:06:00 GMT
Saw a wonderful example of this yesterday , a local Know it all who likes to teach kids and take money for it , and low and behold , terrible posture , tipping forward , looking down and leaning forward when asking for a canter transition .......I had to depart before I made my feelings known!!!! North west by any chance If not I know of the same n thought the same 😂 Yep :0 :0
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Post by gillwales on Oct 17, 2017 9:08:43 GMT
I think a lot is down to the fact that when teaching you are no longer able to put limbs etc into the correct position. Health and safety and PC gone mad. Actually you can, GW, but you have to ask . . . . " do you mind / are you ok / if I touch your . . . " (shoulders / leg or whatever). [/quote You would always have asked anyway, nobody would just go up to someone and grab them, well I certainly didn't. I have to say that it is not the information I was given by either the BHS, Pony Club or my insurance company, I have had other friends who received the same advice I did, albeit many years ago. At that point I stopped teaching
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Post by CarolineNelson on Oct 17, 2017 10:26:39 GMT
According to associations such as "Children in Sport" - what absolutely cannot happen is a non-qualified person (ie: not a qualified trainer/coach) be allowed in a one-to-one situation with a minor - eg: a photographer alone with a ballet dancing 'minor' pupil and physically placing them.
Along with other certification, I hold a "Sports Coach UK" Certificate in Good Practice and Child Protection.
In any case, in our 'sport', not only is the one-to-one situation comparatively rare, but parental permission will have already been sought and granted. Much of "Child Protection" is pure common sense and correct social behaviour.
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Post by gillwales on Oct 17, 2017 10:49:57 GMT
According to associations such as "Children in Sport" - what absolutely cannot happen is a non-qualified person (ie: not a qualified trainer/coach) be allowed in a one-to-one situation with a minor - eg: a photographer alone with a ballet dancing 'minor' pupil and physically placing them. Along with other certification, I hold a "Sports Coach UK" Certificate in Good Practice and Child Protection. In any case, in our 'sport', not only is the one-to-one situation comparatively rare, but parental permission will have already been sought and granted. Much of "Child Protection" is pure common sense and correct social behaviour. This is a new body that has come about since I stopped teaching, and yes I still am a qualified riding instructor, but when I, and many qualified friends stopped teaching the PC brigade had just started and personally their strictures made me feel as though I had been doing something unsavoury. I know some of my friends felt the same. I know that I hadn't, I was a very good teacher and enjoyed giving lessons, but once this started up my heart went out of it. You see now that the BSPS has Approved Coaches, they have not gone through the training and exams that I went through, to be able to install the basics is a task for an experienced instructor rather than teach a person to ride in the show ring today; I have seen so many people who look like they are lounging on a sofa rather than riding a horse or pony.
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Oct 22, 2017 18:57:19 GMT
It does seem the case now that children go for one discipline only rather than having a go at most things as they used to, and so training can be very specific rather than a good general base put down from which they can progress to any form of horse sport they choose. As well as all the factors that catkin mentions, they can have far more time limitations nowadays than they used to. Dare I mention going hunting? A great education for any child.
I too learned to jump with no reins or stirrups, although we did still have a saddle! A generation on, my daughter was taught from 6yo in a group of four who all regularly swapped ponies and rode each others - in a fenced in school - and had to ride with no reins to teach the use of seat and leg aids but can they do that now?
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Post by flee on Oct 23, 2017 13:53:47 GMT
As kids my older sister and I had a weekly lesson and a Sunday beach ride at a riding school from about the age of 6 . When I was 11 my ( non horsey ) parents bought us a pony which we kept in a huge field with half a dozen other ponies . Within a couple of weeks we were asked by the owner of three of the other ponies if we would like to exercise them , so effectively we had four ponies to ride , of very varyied type , experience and temperament . Happy Days !! We no longer had lessons but spent our time happily ' schooling ' our ponies in the field , making jumps out of anything we could lay our hands on , and hacking around the local countryside for hours on end . After 3 years the field was sold to make way for a housing estate , and we moved our own pony to a very basic DIY livery yard which basically housed a dozen ponies owned by a dozen kids exactly like ourselves . It was very rough and ready and , I have to admit , I cringe now at some of the things we did , but somehow we all survived ! We all rode each others ponies and I was happy to get on anything that was being naughty and could usually get it to cooperate . We occasionally clubbed together to hire a horsebox to take us to a local show where we would enter the equitation classes ( rarely placed unless entries were low ) and the clear round show jumping , but mainly we hacked out , the braver ones of us jumping anything that could vaguely be classed as a jump . I could stay on pretty much anything over pretty much any terrain . If you had asked me if I was a good rider I would have said ' Of course I am !'. After A levels I decided to have a gap year before heading to uni . Someone showed me the syllabus for what was then the BHSAI exam and I , confident that I could already do everything required for the riding and horse care sections , decided I needed only some help with teaching experience to pass . So that was decided then - I would spend my gap year training to be a riding instructor . I duly applied to a number of establishments for a position as a working pupil and was subsequently offered a place on a yard in Surrey . After informing them of my extensive experience it was suggested , due to the distance involved ( I lived in Lancashire ) that rather than go all that way for an assessment interview they were prepared to take me on 4 weeks trial . And just as well they did because from the moment I arrived it quickly became apparent that I knew absolutely b*gger all , and my riding position , or rather total lack of , well .... what was I thinking ! I could die a thousand deaths now when I think back at the magnitude of my ignorance . Oh the embarrassment ! " You sit like a bareback rider" was my instructors initial critique . I assumed this was a good thing ( I could jump ' full barrel ' bareback couldn't I ? ) but the feeling of smugness was short lived as she then proceeded to push and pull me into a position that not only felt totally alien but which I could not maintain for more than a few minutes at a time . What followed was the steepest learning curve of my life but god bless the people on that yard because they not only somehow pummelled me into shape enough to pass my AI 12 months later , but also awakened a desire for knowledge and a love of teaching that set me on the path that was to become my life long love . I never did go to uni . Did we all become brilliant riders whilst roaming unsupervised around the countryside or was it just that there was nobody around to tell us otherwise ? In truth I didn't have a clue about any real equestrian disciplines or really ' learn to ride ' until I landed at that yard at the age of 17 . I wasn't a ' good rider ' - I was someone who could stay on a horse . There weren't the shows then and we didn't have the transport to go anywhere anyway , no internet meant that many of us weren't even aware of what went on outside our own little world and we had no one to emulate or compare ourselves to .Todays kids face more scrutiny and criticism with the emphasis on performance and perfection . Is that a good or bad thing ? I guess , for us , 40 years ago , ignorance was bliss ! I think we rode purely for the pleasure of it and not for a rosette , and there was no pressure for anyone to compete , we were left to get on with it and work it out for ourselves . It may have made us more self reliant , instinctive and independent but does that mean we were more knowledgable or technically BETTER riders than todays kids ? I'm not so sure it does . And whilst there were undoubtedly some good riders in the top echelon of equestrian sports ( notably eventing and showjumping , we were rubbish , as a nation , at dressage in those days ) one saw some appalling riding , including in top class showing classes , both child and adult , which would just not happen nowadays . I personally think that while , yes , kids are often over protected and aren't given the opportunity to 'play' and work stuff out for themselves , the overall standard of both knowledge and riding is better nowadays right across the board from grass roots upwards .
Edited to add : I also think that in any sport/discipline/activity you are going to get those people who have a natural talent and are very good at it ( and that's not to say that they don't also put the work in ) and those who find that those things don't come so easily and may really struggle to improve , but that doesn't mean that they can't also enjoy their hobby competitively . I was going to say that maybe those ' not so good riders' we invariably see at shows might be happier out of the spotlight and just mooching around the fields with their ponies as we did all those years ago , but then it suddenly occurred to me that I'm comparatively rubbish at my new sport of Triathlon but I absolutely LOVE competing! I love the excitement of the big occasion , the preparation beforehand , the tingle of nerves before the start , the feeling of being part of something , being cheered on by the crowds and then the massive sense of acheivement when I cross the finish line . And so what if I am an hour behind the winner - I was there , I was part of something , I paid my money and I had a bl**dy good time . Some people are fiercely competitive , some are content just to be taking part , the ambitious ones will strive tirelessly to improve whilst some will be happy just to see the odd small improvements , some will never ever rise to the top , no matter how hard they try . We're all there for our own reasons , but if there's no lasting harm being done to man or beast and everyone's having a good time , then maybe we should just accept the fact that we're all going to perform to differing standards , not everybody was born to win and let's just let everyone get on with it in their own way without being ripped to shreds for daring to show their less than perfect selfs in public . And at the end of the day it's the also- rans ' who make up the vast majority and who , therefore , finance the competitions that the ' stars ' so love to win .
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Oct 23, 2017 14:39:32 GMT
My experience a generation earlier than yours was similar but my conclusions different! Early lessons (jumping with no reins or stirrups as above!) at a local riding school, so I had the very basics. Then non-horsey parents bought an angelic but totally unschooled 13hh 4yo for my sister and I to share, followed later by a similarly unschooled but pretty 14.2hh for me from a dealer, and that was it. No lessons apart from PC - you can ride, can't you? - so no need. we just hooned around like flee. But I always thought there was more, and read anything horsey I could get my hands on, and my real education began when I married, moved to London and started riding once a week with basically a dealer who ran a riding and hacking out establishment to keep the animals exercised until sold. I was, for my sins, one of her better riders which wasn't saying much and got to ride all sorts of interesting animals - I can remember a heavyweight hunter bought at Leicester Sales, a SJ pony, a TB ex-racehorse bought from a bloodstock sale which was interesting as it's understanding of aids wasn't the same as mine and a just broken quality coloured 4yo that I loved. Bought the wrong horse (riggy ex-SJer), moved out of London, sold that one and bought another and started having lessons with the AI students from a proper instructor, moved on to a dressage instructor specialising in adults and went on from there. I have always envied those who had good riding childhoods as I was always behindhand and didn't really start learning until adult, then working around two children and a husband.
To answer flee's last paragraph - we did in some ways become brilliant riders in our childhood as we learned to ride and stay on anything available, gaining a secure seat and confidence. My daughter, 35 years ago or so, did that by playing on and with her pony with friends - cowboys and indians bareback in the field and bucket elimination up and down the barn and later going hunting, while having lessons alongside, the best combination I think. I don't have riding grandchildren, but from what I have seen many children do not have the "rough riding" side of it, just coddled in a school only and never sitting on anything testing. And, as I've said above, taking part in only one discipline. If that is showing, is this a good thing? It never used to be a sport of its own, but as far as the animals were concerned part of their education on the way to their real career. Show hunters went hunting, WHs went SJing and the like. Some very good show riding children went on to higher things in dressage, eventing and even racing, but would today"s in the same way or is the basic horsemanship common to all disciplines being lost?
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