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Post by Philippa on Apr 6, 2018 5:51:57 GMT
My friend has been to the society Gill Wales, she got no clear response, so don't assume people do not try the correct channels. As I said was asking for peoples views on here as she will show the horse and would not like negative responses. In anticipation of your next response Gill, she will not post on here due to the negativity people like you put out into the universe and your dogmatic attitude! Unfortunately I think your friend needs to revisit the society and explain exactly what the issue is. There cannot be a ‘grey area’ from a societies point of view. It has got to be black or white. I’d be on the phone explaining myself and telling them I need a definitive answer in order to be able to compete in certain classes or not. Or it could be a costly exercise which is all in vein. I’d then ask for clarification in writing as Gill has mentioned. It’s sll well and good asking for clarity in here but it’s not us paying the entries. It’s obviously an exceptional case and so the only place to clear it up is the society. Keep on at them until you have an answer.
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Post by flee on Apr 6, 2018 10:33:08 GMT
So if a person keeps their horses on a horse dealer/ eventers yard yet does the horses themselves where would they stand..... asking for a friend !lol :-) y Get your friend to write to the Society they want to show under Hi Very Sad I think the problem lies in that , having asked your question on behalf of your friend , you are yet to receive an answer that you like . So I went and had a word with my friend who always asks for clarification of rules/technical issues via random social media experts , rather than trawling through all that dreary , unreliable , official society guff . She said that her favorite answer is " Yes . Probably ", so I shall give you that one . And she should know - she hardly ever gets sent out the ring . Hope this helps .
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Post by Very sad on Apr 6, 2018 13:00:56 GMT
Cheers Flee Actually I didn't get an answer on here if you care to read back just Ms Wales with her usual stuff. But thanks for making the effort to ask your friend who also trawls social media we now have the answer I really appreciate that! P.S the unreliable official stuff did not answer the question so she will enter the ring and then will no doubt reap the rewards of fire and fury on here!! :-)
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Post by flee on Apr 6, 2018 14:04:50 GMT
Cheers Flee Actually I didn't get an answer on here if you care to read back just Ms Wales with her usual stuff. But thanks for making the effort to ask your friend who also trawls social media we now have the answer I really appreciate that! P.S the unreliable official stuff did not answer the question so she will enter the ring and then will no doubt reap the rewards of fire and fury on here!! :-) You're most welcome , I'm always ready to offer an opinion , educated or otherwise .
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Post by Philippa on Apr 6, 2018 14:05:18 GMT
y Get your friend to write to the Society they want to show under Hi Very Sad I think the problem lies in that , having asked your question , on behalf of your friend , you are yet to receive an answer that you like . So I went and asked my friend who always asks for clarity on technical issues via social media , rather than trawling through all that unreliable official society stuff . She said that her favorite answer is " Yes . Probably ". And she should know - she hardly ever gets sent out the ring . 🙀🙀🙀
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Post by gillwales on Apr 6, 2018 17:23:05 GMT
Cheers Flee Actually I didn't get an answer on here if you care to read back just Ms Wales with her usual stuff. But thanks for making the effort to ask your friend who also trawls social media we now have the answer I really appreciate that! P.S the unreliable official stuff did not answer the question so she will enter the ring and then will no doubt reap the rewards of fire and fury on here!! :-) You're most welcome , I'm always ready to offer an opinion , educated or otherwise . You can just see it; at a show the "friend" produces a print out that says " Approved by Horse Gossip" when there is a dispute over rules!
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Post by Very disappointing on Apr 9, 2018 5:53:13 GMT
I think as a true Amateur it is very disappointing that people are clearly breaking the rules in these clases .
Again seeing peoples results on Facebook this weekend and thanking the producers that have helped them .
I'm sure that at some point these people and producers started as amateurs , maybe they should be more considerate of others .
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Post by Repeat on Apr 9, 2018 8:23:20 GMT
Again just to repeat rules - AMATEUR RIDERS do not have to be HOME PRODUCED. The BSHA and PUK Amateur rules are clear the rider must be a true amateur in not earning an income from horse however they can have a horse at a producers yard, however the producer CANNOT ride in; produce or strip the horse on the day it competes in Amateur classes. As said before for some people who work full time their only option is to keep a horse on full livery and these classes give them a welcome opportunity to compete on their own horse without having to always compete against professional riders. Personally I think these classes are very welcome, people just need to be clear on the rules and differences between Amateur and Home Produced.
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Post by so what is on Apr 9, 2018 8:35:19 GMT
but then what is an Amateur class - it has always been something different to a Home Produced class. What is the point of having another home produced classes? People either have to accept the amateur class as what it is or just remove it. Just because you have a pony produced doesn't mean you aren't a true amateur - maybe you are away all week at work, maybe you don't have the luxury of your own stables or a DIY yard suitable nearby? I agree producers should not be 'helping' on the day of an amateur class but transporting etc yes of course they will take a pony how else is it supposed to get to the show? If you don't have your own transport for your horse you can't ask for it to go to a show with your friend because if they are home produced well they can't possibly breathe near your pony in case someone complains about it! And I would take someone thanking someone on FB with a pinch of salt - they are only being nice and thanking the person who looks after their pony! The horse world has managed with amateur classes for a long time i am not sure why this is any different?
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Post by Same story on Apr 9, 2018 8:55:27 GMT
Last year having complained about someone who shouldn't have been in a PP class sending them screen grabs of the someone who rode in a PP class then rode a producers horse in a championship .... and what was done oh yes nothing We did the same. Called the relevant society, explained the situation that we had seen and was told that it would not be acceptable under home produced rules. We asked the procedure to lodge an objection, followed the process we were given, sent the evidence they asked for etc. Waited for an answer, rang and was told that rules had been broken but it was going to council then got an email to say that they needed 2 people to complain individually for it to be considered as an objection so no action would be taken. Joke.
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Post by amatuer rules on Apr 9, 2018 9:12:08 GMT
I must admit that it can feel very disheartening as an amatuer rider to see proudced horses in the ring just under their amatuer owners. I read on Facebook yesterday, a very well known producer congratulating a rider on her amatuer class win, on a horse that has been to hoys serveral times with said producer and won across two different classes. I will never stand a chance against these people BUT.... thats the rules. Totally different to home produced classes and as someone said above, if you have an owner that is unable to do their horses in the week then they get a fair class to compete in. Am I jealous of these people? A little bit! But fair play to them!
Its tough crap really and if I dont like it then I will have to change to another disicpline. In the mean time I will keep doing what I'm doing and ENJOYING the days out with my wonderful horses,Prosecco and good friends. Its meant to be fun right?
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Which rule was broken?
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Post by Which rule was broken? on Apr 9, 2018 9:55:18 GMT
I must admit that it can feel very disheartening as an amatuer rider to see proudced horses in the ring just under their amatuer owners. I read on Facebook yesterday, a very well known producer congratulating a rider on her amatuer class win, on a horse that has been to hoys serveral times with said producer and won across two different classes. I will never stand a chance against these people BUT.... thats the rules. Totally different to home produced classes and as someone said above, if you have an owner that is unable to do their horses in the week then they get a fair class to compete in. Am I jealous of these people? A little bit! But fair play to them! Its tough crap really and if I dont like it then I will have to change to another disicpline. In the mean time I will keep doing what I'm doing and ENJOYING the days out with my wonderful horses,Prosecco and good friends. Its meant to be fun right? For the life of me I can't find a rule that was broken here.
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Post by sorry? on Apr 9, 2018 10:14:01 GMT
Did I mention any rules being broken? No, i said 'thats the rules' and fair play to them. They have as much right to be there as me which is what I was writing above.
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Post by so what is on Apr 9, 2018 10:14:34 GMT
To be fair I don't think Amatuer rules is saying a rule was broken but more she feels it isn't a fair chance
However amateur rules as someone else has said on here everyone starts somewhere and learns and gets better etc etc you can beat these people. You just have to be realistic with what you have and also be self critical - never stop trying and like you say just enjoy it. We never have the best horses but have done well and had our day and most importantly have enjoyed it all along the way. When it isn't your job - it should be for fun!
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Post by amatuer rules on Apr 9, 2018 10:20:12 GMT
;so what is' your absolutely right. everyone starts somewhere and I am always genuinely happy for the people that win/place well and will happily congratulate them. This will be my first year of 'proper' amatuer classes and we will do our best, keep trying to improve and most of all enjoy the experience along the way!
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Post by Repeat on Apr 9, 2018 11:34:04 GMT
Amateur Rules I think your post was very fair and honest. Home Produced rules are very strict, rightly so and I know people who are HP but still can't do them as they maybe need help from a non family member at a show or with transport so the Amateur classes give people a class where they are not continually against professional riders. There should be classes for All and most importantly as you say it should be about you enjoying your horse, the company (particularly the Prosecco!!) and HAVING FUN. I get worn down by all the back biting, looking for rule infringements (even when they haven't been broken) and constant negativity how is that fun? I think you have the right attitude to showing, and wish you a happy and successful season.
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Post by gillwales on Apr 9, 2018 11:39:35 GMT
You do have to wonder what satisfaction people get in entering and maybe winning a class that they are not eligible to compete. It is also a shame that rules have to be so strict, as was said earlier. people used to help each-other if there was a problem, nobody thought that there was cheating, and really if someone like Debbie Thomas helped a child she did not know at a show and not charge for it really whatwould be the harm?
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Post by amatuer rules on Apr 9, 2018 12:51:41 GMT
Amateur Rules I think your post was very fair and honest. Home Produced rules are very strict, rightly so and I know people who are HP but still can't do them as they maybe need help from a non family member at a show or with transport so the Amateur classes give people a class where they are not continually against professional riders. There should be classes for All and most importantly as you say it should be about you enjoying your horse, the company (particularly the Prosecco!!) and HAVING FUN. I get worn down by all the back biting, looking for rule infringements (even when they haven't been broken) and constant negativity how is that fun? I think you have the right attitude to showing, and wish you a happy and successful season. thankyou! And to you. We arent going to win but well have a d**n good night away sampling the local cider at bath and west at the end of May,after spending the day with my beautiful horse, and I have been practising my Royal wave for Windsor ! I want to win as much as the next person, I really do but lately I have come to accept that I have neither the funds for a top horse or neccesary skills to beat the producers so will make do with what i have. Would it p**s me off if someone broke the rules of a class though? Absolutely, I am only human but I dont think I would let it spoil my enjoyment!
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Post by amatuer rules on Apr 9, 2018 12:53:03 GMT
Anyway, I have gone totally off topic now. Good luck to all this season
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Post by very sad on Apr 10, 2018 9:51:32 GMT
I'm laughing Gill Wales never thought of that, yes we will print this out so that we can show any complainers!! :-)
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Post by just asking on Apr 10, 2018 12:00:39 GMT
I'm confused..............amateur and home produced are completely different aren't they but an adult can still do both of them can't they - as long as they comply with the rules and are out of the professional yard before a certain time. Kids can only do the PP classes and now young adults, I guess because of the Intermediate classes but how did Debbie Thomas find her name in all of this? Was the original post querying adults or PP? V confused - can anyone explain
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Post by gillwales on Apr 10, 2018 13:20:17 GMT
I merely said Debbie's name as I know her and Ron well and they are the sort of people who would be prepared to help someone in difficulty, it was just an example. Have you read the whole thread just asking? I am not being judgemental, but if you haven't then it is no wonder that you are confused.
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Post by still confused on Apr 10, 2018 16:46:04 GMT
yup - read it all. The thread jumps from rule breakers/cheats, drifts into amateur classes and then home produced/pp. It Continues on with contributors seeking clarification - were rules broken or not? Then the phantom friend enters the conundrum. Add to the mix, the inevitable personal attacks and snipes at people that are merely asking a question, expressing their opinion or seeking clarification and then completely off piste, once again - concluding that no rules were actually broken and a denial that that was ever the issue. I think I have a genuine reason to be confused and am still wondering what the point of the thread was. Quite hilarious really.
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Post by gillwales on Apr 10, 2018 17:39:22 GMT
Well if nothing else I should have managed to explain Debbie Thomas! Going off piste is quite normal on HG!
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Post by disgruntled on Apr 16, 2018 11:46:47 GMT
The whole point of not allowing a 'Debbie Thomas' into the ring is because she is a producing 'face'. By removing the 'face' from the ring either in the saddle, handling or grooming then you allow the amateur status to shine through. Someone above mentioned some bloke called Colin wading into the ring if a child had fallen off or was in trouble - I would suggest this is a totally pointless 'good old days' comment as quite frankly if the child had been peeed off with or fallen off then they wouldn't be placed anyway?? Comparing genuine assistance in times of strife with the type of assistance banned in amateur classes is ridiculous and leads to the ambiguity that cheats thrive on.
I am home produced and amateur but I see 'families' roll up in their lorries packed with adults (must be catholics to have that many immediate family members LOL). One driving, one doing entries, one cooking the breakfast, two or three grooming, an older teenager riding the legs off the pony and then lo and behold the cherished immaculate child is removed from the lorry without touching the floor and placed atop the bless'ed pony. Yea right amateur home produced my arse! Oh but the rules are the rules and those of us that are quite literally child and mum must put up and shut up as thems is the rules.
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Post by catkin on Apr 20, 2018 13:46:46 GMT
disgruntled; I may be going slightly off piste from the OP here, but I have to query your point above. Whilst often out on my own with my own child and perhaps a niece in tow, in years gone by, being one of nine children, our family would have fallen into exactly the category you describe above. Totally home produced, with older siblings helping younger siblings, etc, etc. A true family activity that has continued to bind us together over the following years. AND our animals were often purchased unbroken, and ridden by several family members well into their dotage - surely a true family or 'home produced' situation? I absolutely acknowledge the hard work of the single parent at a competition, but please let's not knock large, united families along the way!
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Post by whataday on Apr 20, 2018 19:21:15 GMT
Discruntled What a sad post from you, I have no religion in any way so why do you mention Catholics? would you say Jews, Muslims, Agnostics what the hell as religion got to do with this post? Our family of six compete with two ponies, I drive the lorry, my wife cooks breakfast and looks after the children while my two daughters get the ponies ready and good luck to the rest of the world, we roll up get beaten and go home loving each other as a family enjoying our time together, Also while at shows being a sad old git I love to talk to people who I may never have met before and find that more often than not they are really nice fun people and never question my religion or lack of it
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Post by Philippa on Apr 20, 2018 20:20:19 GMT
Discruntled What a sad post from you, I have no religion in any way so why do you mention Catholics? would you say Jews, Muslims, Agnostics what the hell as religion got to do with this post? Our family of six compete with two ponies, I drive the lorry, my wife cooks breakfast and looks after the children while my two daughters get the ponies ready and good luck to the rest of the world, we roll up get beaten and go home loving each other as a family enjoying our time together, Also while at shows being a sad old git I love to talk to people who I may never have met before and find that more often than not they are really nice fun people and never question my religion or lack of it Exactly. You and us both. we go as a family too and enjoy our day out whether we are beat or not. Having lost too many people in the last year it kind of brings home what is truly important.
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Post by gillwales on Apr 22, 2018 20:43:38 GMT
The whole point of not allowing a 'Debbie Thomas' into the ring is because she is a producing 'face'. By removing the 'face' from the ring either in the saddle, handling or grooming then you allow the amateur status to shine through. Someone above mentioned some bloke called Colin wading into the ring if a child had fallen off or was in trouble - I would suggest this is a totally pointless 'good old days' comment as quite frankly if the child had been peeed off with or fallen off then they wouldn't be placed anyway?? Comparing genuine assistance in times of strife with the type of assistance banned in amateur classes is ridiculous and leads to the ambiguity that cheats thrive on. I am home produced and amateur but I see 'families' roll up in their lorries packed with adults (must be catholics to have that many immediate family members LOL). One driving, one doing entries, one cooking the breakfast, two or three grooming, an older teenager riding the legs off the pony and then lo and behold the cherished immaculate child is removed from the lorry without touching the floor and placed atop the bless'ed pony. Yea right amateur home produced my arse! Oh but the rules are the rules and those of us that are quite literally child and mum must put up and shut up as thems is the rules. What a sad individual you are, plus extremely offensive, I am surprized that Admin has allowed this entry as it is discriminatory. The "good old days" were exactly that , when you had people who showed for the joy of it, had much better ponies ( conformation and type ) who were not so obese. And joy of joys no keyboard warriors!
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Post by Pepper on Apr 23, 2018 12:53:55 GMT
Disgruntled, I too find the comments unsavoury
I too “roll up” with my 6yo daughter and her grandmother. I do ponies. Mum does children. Hubby then “rolls up” from rugby with my daughters twin brother. Grandma supervises changing. I donponies. Daddy does coffee. Sometime grandad is there too. And anything from one to four labradors. Oh and the owner of our fabulous loan ponies
We have a blast. We win or lose. Unhorsey dad meets other dads dragged along (at this point read skint daddy dressage blog!). Three generations out for the day and then home to roast
Can’t beat it
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