|
Post by Follow the rules on Mar 25, 2018 20:11:56 GMT
Have already seen a couple of people breaking rules re Amateur and Pretty Polly. Please people take note and follow these rules, and stop ruining it for those genuine people who then miss out.
i.e. P(UK) Rule 25 - and Amatuer Rider... “Animals and riders must not receive any assistance from professional trainers or producers on the day of the competition.”
|
|
|
Post by very sad on Mar 26, 2018 11:58:34 GMT
and also someone who make their living from horses riding in amateurs, not sure if that's allowed
|
|
|
Post by ponymad79 on Mar 26, 2018 14:39:55 GMT
ok so if they are breaking rules and you can prove it report it in writing to the relevant societies .Its the start of the season so stamp down on it now .
|
|
|
Post by sallie on Mar 27, 2018 6:48:00 GMT
Bet i know who this is - lol
|
|
|
Post by bigmama on Mar 27, 2018 10:55:23 GMT
and also someone who make their living from horses riding in amateurs, not sure if that's allowed[/u][/b] That's the problem .. many people do not avail themselves of the rules which are readily available on, in this instance, Ponies (UK) website www.poniesuk.org/rulebook.asp ... it took me seconds to find the current Ponies (UK) Amateur status classification as follows:
AMATEUR RIDER – An Amateur Rider is a rider who for showing purposes HAS NOT engaged in the training programme for Rider/horses/ponies/livery/buying/selling or dealing of horses/ponies as a means of deriving a source of income since 1st August 2016. It is expected that exhibitors will enter into the true spirit of this competition. The Directors reserve the right in, their absolute discretion, to refuse an exhibitor’s entry should they be in contravention of this rule in the Directors considered opinion. Animals and riders must not receive any assistance from professional trainers or producers on the day of the competition. (This includes preparation and training of the animal and the rider for the competition at the show). Exhibitors are encouraged to participate in training programmes but riders who have received individual training may not exhibit under that person.
Below the above in the current PUK Rule Book is the HOME-PRODUCED classification which is also of interest as it stipulates that a DIY-er is allowed to do HP classes provided pony is not on livery at a professional show producer/trainer's yard (a point I had not previously known although I am not a PUK member nor do I stable at a pro's yard):
HOME PRODUCED – These classes are open to horses and ponies that have been stabled at home since 1st August 2016. DIY livery is acceptable providing it is not the establishment of a professional show producer/trainer. Horses/ponies entering these championships must be owned, produced, ridden or led by the owner/spouse or his/her son/daughter/grandchild, who for showing purposes has not engaged in the training programme for handlers/riders/horses/ponies/livery/selling or dealing as a means of deriving an income since August 2016. Stud fees are acceptable. It is expected that exhibitors will enter into the true spirit of this competition. The Directors reserve the right in, their absolute discretion, to refuse an exhibitor’s entry should they be in contravention of this rule in the Directors considered opinion.
There is little point moaning on here about abuse of rules for nothing will be done about it. Put your complaint in writing to PUK and, if you are a member, demand to be informed of the action that will be taken.
|
|
|
Post by very sad on Mar 27, 2018 11:19:27 GMT
Would that include other equestrian fields other than showing i.e working a groom for a professional eventer or riding race horses?
|
|
|
Post by clarity on Mar 27, 2018 11:55:47 GMT
My understanding with regard to the Amateur rule is that as it states ' deriving a SOURCE OF INCOME is that anyone who is paid for riding grooming; producing horses would not be deemed an amateur but not an expert so always best to check with the society concerned.
|
|
|
Post by Follow the rules on Apr 2, 2018 19:15:16 GMT
So, just for clarity’s sake... would a pony that has travelled on a producer’s lorry to the show be eligible under P(UK) rules? Would this be classed as preparation on the day of the show? What about riders who are riding other produced ponies on the day of the show? Would this be classed as the rider receiving assistance from a professional on the day of the show (albeit for a different class/pony?)
Food for thought!
|
|
|
Post by gillwales on Apr 2, 2018 19:57:44 GMT
Would that include other equestrian fields other than showing i.e working a groom for a professional eventer or riding race horses? May I politely suggest that if you do not know then contact the Society in writing, either by mail ( enclosing an SAE ) or email and ask. Then you will have it from the horse's mouth rather than on here by speculation. And that includes the last post from the OP Although if all that happened was a lift in a lorry I fail to see that it has anything to do with preparation, would travelling in one lorry would make a pony go better in the ring.
|
|
|
Post by Check first on Apr 3, 2018 8:37:01 GMT
Amateur rider rules clearly stated on here - I also think you should check carefully on your facts first, can make a guess on who you are referring to here but just to be clear NOT RIDING OTHER PRODUCED PONIES ON SAME DAY, in fact not riding ANY PRODUCED PONIES at show only totally home produced ponies. I also believe pony can be transported but not handled by producer on the day and that rule was STRICTLY adhered too.
|
|
|
Post by ponymum on Apr 3, 2018 8:48:15 GMT
No Idea who this is aimed at , but if you are in any doubt, even when seeing the rules written down in front of you, just call the society and ask for clarification. Nobody wants to qualify and lose a ticket surely?
|
|
|
Post by Spooky Mares!! on Apr 3, 2018 12:20:06 GMT
Also saw a very very well known producer walk in in an amateur class on Sunday as a groom , a very quick thinking judge sternly told her to get out !!
|
|
|
Post by bigmama on Apr 4, 2018 10:12:16 GMT
Would that include other equestrian fields other than showing i.e working a groom for a professional eventer or riding race horses? May I politely suggest that if you do not know then contact the Society in writing, either by mail ( enclosing an SAE ) or email and ask. Then you will have it from the horse's mouth rather than on here by speculation. And that includes the last post from the OP Although if all that happened was a lift in a lorry I fail to see that it has anything to do with preparation, would travelling in one lorry would make a pony go better in the ring. I agree with first paragraph, GillWales but re. second paragraph, surely the producer transporting pony to a show is assisting for without such assistance, how would the pony have got to the show? The producer could well have handled and loaded the pony for all we know. There are so many grey areas but for those of us who keep our ponies at home and do absolutely everything for them ourselves, including transportation, it is a clear picture for we truly are 'home-produced', no ifs or buts but we rarely compete in home-produced classes as there is so much dishonesty going on in them
|
|
Amateur/Home Produced
Guest
|
Post by Amateur/Home Produced on Apr 4, 2018 10:18:27 GMT
We have to be clear what classes are - Amateur Rider classes are not Home Produced Classes, horses can be produced but just not on the day. I am sure many would love to have facilities to keep at home but not all can do that particularly if working full time, I think these classes do provide a class for the amateur rider who otherwise is competing all the time against professional riders.
|
|
|
Post by Seriously on Apr 4, 2018 10:32:08 GMT
Also saw a very very well known producer walk in in an amateur class on Sunday as a groom , a very quick thinking judge sternly told her to get out !! Surely under the rules the groom, rider and pony should be been removed from the class! The Amateur rule had already been broken at that point and it was pretty obvious that the 'amateur' had been receiving assistance ringside if they are blatant enough to come into the ring!
|
|
|
Post by bigmama on Apr 4, 2018 10:40:30 GMT
We have to be clear what classes are - Amateur Rider classes are not Home Produced Classes, horses can be produced but just not on the day. I am sure many would love to have facilities to keep at home but not all can do that particularly if working full time, I think these classes do provide a class for the amateur rider who otherwise is competing all the time against professional riders. I am perfectly clear on the point that Amateur classes and Home-Produced classes are not the same and that each has their own set of rules (please scroll up to read my first post on this thread). I appreciate that not all horse owners are lucky enough to be able to keep their horses and ponies at home and I count my lucky stars but the multitude of problems, questions and grey areas surrounding home-produced classes that crops up year upon year rarely involves those of us who are what it says on the tin
|
|
|
Post by very sad on Apr 4, 2018 11:07:19 GMT
So if a person keeps their horses on a horse dealer/ eventers yard yet does the horses themselves where would they stand..... asking for a friend !lol :-)
|
|
|
Post by gillwales on Apr 4, 2018 11:46:58 GMT
So if a person keeps their horses on a horse dealer/ eventers yard yet does the horses themselves where would they stand..... asking for a friend !lol :-) y Get your friend to write to the Society they want to show under
|
|
|
Post by very sad on Apr 4, 2018 12:51:46 GMT
Im sure some one on here can help Gill. But thanks for your usual expert cutting and very rude remark!
|
|
|
Post by lucynlizzysmum on Apr 4, 2018 13:53:59 GMT
Im sure some one on here can help Gill. But thanks for your usual expert cutting and very rude remark! I have to say I agree with Gill - I have lost count of the people who say to me "Joe Bloggs in the pub says his accountant says it's perfectly acceptable to claim for my horse trailer against my business expenditure - even though my business is a cafe!" Different things have different rules, if you are not sure, and the rules are unclear, get it in writing from the rulemaker! That way you are covered!! So "very sad" I think your remark was uncalled for!
|
|
|
Post by Soooagree on Apr 4, 2018 14:26:16 GMT
Im sure some one on here can help Gill. But thanks for your usual expert cutting and very rude remark! It seems to be a standard response from Gill - go and speak to the society - the other one is if you don't like it don't show!
Quite frankly if that is the acceptable response this site should be shut down as asking for friendly advice is unacceptable.
|
|
|
Post by viking on Apr 4, 2018 14:40:21 GMT
Im sure some one on here can help Gill. But thanks for your usual expert cutting and very rude remark! It seems to be a standard response from Gill - go and speak to the society - the other one is if you don't like it don't show!
Quite frankly if that is the acceptable response this site should be shut down as asking for friendly advice is unacceptable.
Far better to have an accurate and up to date response from the relevant Society than information, accurate or otherwise from a third party. There always has been plenty of good advice offered on this forum and Gills comment might save those unsure of rules and regulations a lot of heartache and bother.
|
|
|
Post by gillwales on Apr 4, 2018 15:34:05 GMT
Im sure some one on here can help Gill. But thanks for your usual expert cutting and very rude remark! What I suggested was factual, not cutting or rude. You have been the one that is rude. Your "friend" needs to take responsibility for their own entries.
|
|
|
Post by Read the Rules on Apr 4, 2018 16:09:34 GMT
Thoroughly agree with the OP! ...READ THE RULES people!
I have also seen numerous people break PP/Amateur rules already this year
Some people seem to think that because they don't pay a producer that alone makes them eligible for PP, the rules change every year and people need to be so careful.
The key thing about Amateur rules for this year is that the date remains August 2016!! That's 18 months of not being given a penny to ride or help with a pony!
However the rules are extremely ambiguous and open to interpretation IMO.
I tried to clarify some rules with a society recently and got a very unhelpful response as they would not give me a straight answer!
|
|
|
Post by CarolineNelson on Apr 4, 2018 16:15:17 GMT
However, far better , if you think you spot a 'rule-breaker' to go immediately to those IN CHARGE of the Show - who should have all the relevant rules to hand. And, eventually, to the Head staff in the relevant Society /Association.
BUT - do bear in mind that the honourable souls who were doing their very best in this awful weather to run shows last weekend (and now, for that matter) had far more on their plate than perhaps worrying about someone who rushed into a ring to 'offer a rug or a coat to a cold and wet pony or child'. I wasn't there, I didn't see - but, we do have to be rational about these things.
Back in the day, there was a wonderful Show Pony producer called Colin Rose. He was Edward Young's Step-dad. Colin was a renowned producer of the 'old-school' had every trick up his sleeve - and he could be quite hard on his pupils / his own children. But if a child was ever in trouble on the showground or in the ring - being p'd off with - came off the pony etc.- the very, very first person to help would be Colin. Now - would that be classed in today's terms as 'Professional assistance??
In my day, many decades ago as a child rider and, (here I guess), in the likes of Gill Wales' too - there were no amateur / home produced / Pretty Polly /Pollyanna - call them what you will classes/sections. Indeed, no 'Intermediate' classes either. You came out of ponies and you went onto Horses. End of.
Showing was in a better place then, to be honest. You worked hard to achieve. d**ned hard. And it was wonderful when you did achieve. It made you for life, whatever your eventual occupation. Maybe the world was in a better place then, too . . . . .?
|
|
lovebird
Full Member
SandbankEarlybird & Freya, Evening Performance HOYS 2013
Posts: 348
|
Post by lovebird on Apr 4, 2018 21:24:03 GMT
I worked for Colin Rose back in the day, & yes there were no srt/ PP/ HP etc. And yes he was always the first in the ring to help.
|
|
|
Post by Philippa on Apr 4, 2018 21:56:23 GMT
I worked for Colin Rose back in the day, & yes there were no srt/ PP/ HP etc. And yes he was always the first in the ring to help. Sorry, totally off topic. I'm sure our old beautiful RP mare Hodsock Verity was produced by Colin.
|
|
|
Post by very sad on Apr 5, 2018 11:37:40 GMT
My friend has been to the society Gill Wales, she got no clear response, so don't assume people do not try the correct channels. As I said was asking for peoples views on here as she will show the horse and would not like negative responses. In anticipation of your next response Gill, she will not post on here due to the negativity people like you put out into the universe and your dogmatic attitude!
|
|
|
Post by if they listen on Apr 5, 2018 12:04:00 GMT
Last year having complained about someone who shouldn't have been in a PP class sending them screen grabs of the someone who rode in a PP class then rode a producers horse in a championship .... and what was done oh yes nothing
|
|
|
Post by gillwales on Apr 5, 2018 22:40:55 GMT
My friend has been to the society Gill Wales, she got no clear response, so don't assume people do not try the correct channels. As I said was asking for peoples views on here as she will show the horse and would not like negative responses. In anticipation of your next response Gill, she will not post on here due to the negativity people like you put out into the universe and your dogmatic attitude! I will put this in very simple terms so everyone can clearly understand why I have advised people to write to the Society they wish to show under if there are any "grey" areas. If you have it in writing that you are legible to compete in a certain class and there is a dispute at the show, all you have to do is show the letter to clear up the matter.
|
|