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Post by scarileo on Aug 29, 2018 12:14:51 GMT
Any Welsh D names I should look out for in the pedigrees of potential jumping/performance ponies?
TIA x
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Aug 29, 2018 13:40:11 GMT
Machno Carwyn, according to SPSS today leading sire of young SJ ponies in France for the fourth year. Check out SPSS for other performance graded Ds, otherwise it's difficult to tell as records of stuff like that aren't kept. Pentrefelin have bred some that went off to jump very successfully in France, and dressagewise look for suitable paces, some lines are better than others, and some breeders pay more attention to the performance side than others. Personally I love Crugybar Mabon Mai lines for their wonderful movement.
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Post by scarileo on Aug 29, 2018 22:10:27 GMT
Oooh yes Machno Carwyn is on my list. Since posting this question, I actually did a bit more research myself and noticed that most of the Welsh D top performers that I looked at had the same few names and stud prefixes cropping up: Nebo Black Magic (he's in a lot of D's but seems to give them the jump), Thorneyside ponies, Menai ponies, Derwen ponies and Parc ponies. I like having a checklist of potential performance lines now that I'm gently on the look for a Weslh D mare to compete then breed from (although genetics is only one component), and it is interesting how many ponies at the top share the same blood.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Aug 30, 2018 6:52:45 GMT
A couple of general points on your list. First, after two WWs the bloodlines were very depleted and I think you'd be very hard put to find any Ds without NBM in the pedigree - I started breeding them in a small way more than 40 years ago and it was more obvious then as he was closer up in pedigrees than he is today. Second, the studs you have named are all very big, high profile studs who bred lots of animals so by the law of averages you will find many of them doing well out doing things, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other, smaller studs you've never heard of aiming and succeeding in breeding good performers.
According to Dr Wynne's books, a main source of the extended action with not such high knee action that is often quoted as being more desirable for ridden stuff than a very high, more driving type one, one was Llanarth Braint. Long ago when I started there were various mostly lady breeders who put a high value on performance and normally based their bloodlines on him - Sydenham, Scole, Kentchurch, Stoatley and Lockeridge, in no particular order, come to mind. The latter bred lots to do FEI type driving, for which the "Braint" type action was preferred to a higher, private driving form. None of those are going today, so no point you going looking for them!
It's very difficult to trace jumping ability as records aren't kept - and WHP classes aren't really very big in the scheme of things if you are looking for a serious jumper - so I looked for bloodlines with the movement I like, which came down to Braint, Parc Dafydd and Mabon and his dam Pennardd Boremai. I know from experience that Cippyn Red Flyer had a great jump but was small, and I had a Kentchurch mare who was deemed exceptional by someone who has far more experience SJ than I do. but both long ago now and I don't have any more recent help to give you I'm afraid.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Aug 30, 2018 8:57:06 GMT
Langarth stud have bred some good eventers, mostly TBxD, as have Welsh Sport Horses on Anglesey but both studs stood D stallions at stud.
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Post by scarileo on Aug 30, 2018 9:05:39 GMT
Sorry, I've never really looked at Welsh D breeding before yesterday so I'm very new to which lines are in most D's; I was just noticing names that cropped up in some of the UK's most successful jumping and eventing ponies (Amman Valley Santino, Trevoulter Ladies Man etc). I'll certainly have a look at the smaller studs and look for the more eventing type movement (less knee action) rather than just the ones I know can pass on a good jump. My tools for research were very rudimentary (allbreedpedigree.com and making note of repeat 'offenders') so I'm very appreciative of your help and I did notice Parc Dafydd which hopefully shows that the movement and jumped could be linked.
Many thanks.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Aug 30, 2018 14:23:16 GMT
Don't apologise, I'm only trying to help and we all have to start somewhere - just that I've been doing it for 40 odd years! It's very difficult to find reliable performance info', and it takes years to get to know lots of studs and what they aim to breed. I'll happily admit that I'm out of date now as I had to give up breeding Ds some years ago (my youngest are 6 yos now) and I don't get out much these days. Added to which I don't follow SJ or eventing anyway, only dressage a bit as that's what I did on mine - too wimpy to jump - but only pottering about the lower levels, nothing posh! But I do watch and think and try to learn - I did lots of dressage writing which is hugely educational - and apply that to conformation. Also, those doing really well may not necessarily be what could have been the best out there as so much depends on the trainer they find themselves with. Most will end up being shown in hand or ridden by those who themselves are not top class.
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Sept 5, 2018 14:11:55 GMT
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Post by scarileo on Sept 6, 2018 7:49:08 GMT
His bloodlines look great! Currently, I'd be looking for a youngster to buy (but need to secure more grazing land for next year) with the view to compete until about age 10 then to breed on. Providing I can get more summer grazing land, my aim is to go to the Welsh Cob Sales at the Royal Welsh Showground next month (not really with a view to buy) and see if anything leaps out at me. If Farleaze Lord Prenwyn does stand at public stud, I'll have to try and find a suitable mare for him!  |
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Post by bigmama on Nov 30, 2018 13:13:14 GMT
We have a quality cob by Trevallion Picasso and he's making the most wonderful jumping pony with bags of scope
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Nov 30, 2018 16:06:31 GMT
Did you find anything to buy at the Cob Sales scarileo?
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