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Post by charliewarlie on Jun 29, 2009 8:35:08 GMT
Can someone please define the meaning of a hunter as i understand the meaning is of a good safe horse that could do a days hunting. I was at a show yesterday with my full up 16.3hh doing the hunter class as he goes hunter trialing altough he doesnt have the best conformation he rode lovely did a perfect show and was a true gentlemen and we always turn smart , so out of 13 the line up was a horse that reared one that napped another that wouldnt go on the right leg for love nor money and the best were the judge stopped the class as one had its tounge over the bit and curb was fastened out of 13 we came in at the bottom.
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Post by sarah00000 on Jun 29, 2009 17:27:03 GMT
Why not have a go at Riding Club Horse classes? These ones tend to be judged much less on conformation etc and more on all round suitability/dependability/manners etc
It is always a shame to see badly behaved horses placed above well behaved ones, but sadly it does happen.......
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Post by armada on Jun 29, 2009 19:32:24 GMT
Shame you were'nt standing under me then, the truly super stamp of a hunter I pulled in top, made a rare old knitting of his show, decided to object to a request for right canter, and then humped his way up the long side when asked for a gallop! Down you go young man!! The only animal stood below him was probably the only one that had ever hunted (in Ireland) but that was really where the criteria for the class ended for that particular horse. At the unaffiliated level, where a lot of people just enter to have another class to do, I feel you have to reward the well behaved animals that do look as though they would give you a good day out, and look after you and bring you home in one piece, although correct conformation is paramount to having a hunter (or any horse that has to work for its dinner) that lasts a good few years, its no good if it behaves like a total idiot out in the field, and has half a mind to ditch you as soon as it can.
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Post by van001 on Jun 29, 2009 20:58:17 GMT
i would always put conformation first- unless the horse did something crazy.
If a hunter that had qual. HOYS shyed, would you put it behind a rc type horse disguised as a hunter- just because it behaved?
i suppose its all down to opinion- i don't tend to mind wrong legs even.
i'd much rather prefer to see a true stamp of a hunter that had a smooth canter transition on the wrong leg than a riding club horse, schooled as a horse not a hunter that went on the correct leg
Was this show a qualifier or just a local?
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Post by van001 on Jun 29, 2009 21:01:21 GMT
Can someone please define the meaning of a hunter as i understand the meaning is of a good safe horse that could do a days hunting. I was at a show yesterday with my full up 16.3hh doing the hunter class as he goes hunter trialing altough he doesnt have the best conformation he rode lovely did a perfect show and was a true gentlemen and we always turn smart , so out of 13 the line up was a horse that reared one that napped another that wouldnt go on the right leg for love nor money and the best were the judge stopped the class as one had its tounge over the bit and curb was fastened out of 13 we came in at the bottom. sorry, just to add, i disagree with this definition. Althought the hunter should be muscular, alert, have adequate limbs and enough bone to carry an adult across the field, a 15.2hh ex racer thoroughbred could do this- but not necessarily a hunter |
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Post by hollycane on Jun 29, 2009 21:09:49 GMT
If you were asked to do a show it wasn't a proper Hunter class. And unfortunately conformation is of paramount importance.
However he should have been placed above those that truly napped etc. Manners are important.
Your definition isn't completely correct. And it is a show class. So type, conformation, movement and ride are what is being marked.
Did you ask the judge why you were placed bottom? That's the best thing to do. You could have got some contructive answers perhaps.
However. Keep trying!!
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Post by charliewarlie on Jun 30, 2009 12:35:07 GMT
right thanks i can see why they put comformation first not manners and im sure i wont be seeing many of them on the hunting field this season weve decided to stick to the trials and maybe try the horse hack and cob this weekend fingers crossed.
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Post by brindlerainbow on Jun 30, 2009 15:29:52 GMT
Depends if it was a showhunter class or as we have down here in Devon classes for hunters that have been properly hunted with a local hunt. Showhunter class would be judged on conformation,movement,manners,ride ( remembering as well that their are 3 weight classes,smalls and ladies) so that each horse was in its correct weight class. Whereas the class for properly hunted hunters I think the judge would probably be looking for a workmanlike type that looked like it could go all day and cross the country local to that area. I used to look after Dual Gold who was MW hunter of the year and also WH of the year back in the late 70's early 80's ( memory goes as I get older!!!!!) and he was regularly hunted by Robert Oliver as was the 2 other horses I used to "do", Flashman - Showhunter ( HW ) of the Year and Kempley - Cob of the year 3 times and winner at the RIHS 4 times, so given the chance top show hunters do hunt and they love it!!!!!!
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Post by hunter on Jun 30, 2009 16:09:23 GMT
what people must try to remember is a show hunter class is predominately a breeders class promoting breeders of good stock of hunting type and not necacerily a class for horses who have hunted so type ,conformation and qualiity and presence come to the fore but having said that comfort (to ride )and manners also play a large part( there is a differance between manners and schooling ) .the horses ability to ''eat the ground'' and soundness is all so covered in the conformation phase . the comfort of the ride is obvious as when you are excpecting to be on its back for long hours during a days hunting .
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Post by jimjim on Jul 3, 2009 20:56:11 GMT
i would always put conformation first- unless the horse did something crazy. If a hunter that had qual. HOYS shyed, would you put it behind a rc type horse disguised as a hunter- just because it behaved? i suppose its all down to opinion- i don't tend to mind wrong legs even. i'd much rather prefer to see a true stamp of a hunter that had a smooth canter transition on the wrong leg than a riding club horse, schooled as a horse not a hunter that went on the correct leg Was this show a qualifier or just a local? Yes Yes Yes at last someone who gets it!! Well done |
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Post by agree on Jul 3, 2009 21:07:16 GMT
i agree we get fed up with coming second to a pony who is not true to type/breed when one of ours did a simple mistake! whats more important? a sppok or a wrong leg or a correct pony?
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silver
Junior Member
Posts: 199
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Post by silver on Jul 4, 2009 14:16:33 GMT
Sorry - I don't agree with the OP. Its a bit likc saying that a hack class should reward horses that would amble around the countryside for hours on end with your granny on....
Type and conformation should always come first - otherwise there would be no need for all these different classes, it would just be "best horse".
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Post by buldu on Jul 7, 2009 20:44:42 GMT
well in that case why dont you just do inhand with your hunters if performance is not important!
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Post by princessv on Jul 9, 2009 13:30:54 GMT
well in that case why dont you just do inhand with your hunters if performance is not important! i that case why don't you just stick to riding club, whamming horses round, and hacking about if conformation is not important |
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Post by CourtRoyal on Jul 9, 2009 15:29:40 GMT
princessv- wouldnt you say your comment was a little harsh? i think they have a very valid point. if conformation was to always come first then why dont you just do in hand. surely a good ride should always come first then conformation.but i do think conformation is very important. however, wouldnt you rather put through or up something that did exactly as asked even if the confromation isnt perfect?
if you had the choice between one that gave a superb ride and maybe had a little wear and tear on the legs to one that is perfectly turned out and was naughty. wouldnt you pick the first. as although it comes down to opinion at the end of the day manners should come first otherwise whats the point of having a ride judge if conformation is the only important factor. isnt one of the main factors to showing and the marking system the manners of the animal and how it rides?!
i think you need to think carefully about your priorities in judging.
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Post by clue on Jul 9, 2009 19:13:02 GMT
i also agree princessv was a little harsh as a valid point was made, in the in hand ring it is not about the ride, so if ride is less important to you go there.
i would far rather have something put up that gives a good ride, after all wasn't this thread started with regards to RIDDEN HUNTERS, the clue is in the name of the class!
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Post by hollycane on Jul 9, 2009 21:01:49 GMT
No No No!! Any class must be about type and conformation as well as ride. The whole point of having a classification whether it is breed or type is exactly that. Whilst princessv may sound harsh the reality is if the animal has poor conformation it will get marked down even harder in an in-hand class as there is no ride/show to give it extra marks.
I would rather put up a good type with good conformation and a not so great ride than something which is not true to type and does not have the true conformation to do the job.
I have a fabulous hunter, who open team chases and has no blemishes, gives a wonderful ride. He's qualified for HOYS and RIHS in flats and Ladies but I know that his conformation and movement is not 100% and he lacks bone. I don't show him anymore becuase I know, ultimately he is not good enough. Even though he is a fantastic "working" hunter.
We are talking showing and these animals are supposed to be the best examples.
Whilst we all have animals that we love and it's always a bit crap when you are way down the line. Think of the other things your hoorse can do for you rather than get a poxy rosette for showing ;-)
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Post by josie1234 on Jul 13, 2009 12:48:26 GMT
My horse is a full up 15.2hh gelding, I am not planning to qual for HOYS or anything of the like. I have entered him in a "hunter type" class at our local AG show. He is a relitvely stocky chap but not a real chunker like the small hunters I have seen on the internet. He is fit and ready for hunting already and I am confident he would carry a 12stone person all day. He is a fantastic gallop and is very manerly and well schooled. I have only ever had M&M ponies and I am a tad clueless when it comes to the horses!  In my mind this defines the perfect hunter one that you could ride hunting all day, that you could pull up with your little finger and feel safe! I do agree that conformation and type counts for alot but do you think ride and manners count aswell? |
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Post by hollycane on Jul 13, 2009 21:17:11 GMT
Of course ride and manners count. But type is very important as is conformation. If you have a good mix of all these the judge should recognise this.
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Post by hollycane on Jul 13, 2009 21:24:46 GMT
As an aside one of my horses is also a perfect hunter. He stops on a sixpence in a snaffle, goes first or last, jumps fences so big he can't see the other side and takes both saddles. He's very glamorous and moves very well but he lacks bone, is a bit weak behind and dishes in front and moves close behind. He is a wonderful hunter and is very much a lightweight type. I qualified him for RIHS several times but ultimately I know he isn't good enough to show in top company but I love him anyway.
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Post by princessv on Jul 13, 2009 22:31:53 GMT
sorry to upset everyone- that is just my opinion
personally- i would prefer to see something correct and terrible manners than something perfectly behaved with small error.
it's like saying you would place a plaited section D in a sp class that did a perfect show than a top class riding pony- who qualified cuddy last year- that bucked and wrong legged it,
unfortunately for some i am also one of those people who do not penalise wrong legs in first riddens- but many disagree with this.
Ridden hunters at the level we are talking about are supposed to be the best in the country. Whilst it is not possible to have a well-mannered horse 24/7- this should be reflected in the ride score, the point in the ride is to help the judge assess whether this horse has the conformation and is is put together correctly to carry someone of a given weight. The ride judge isn't just on board to see if he/she likes the animal, just as a horse, or not.
As tellytubby stated earlier that i needed to think about my priorites in judging- these are my priorities in judging and i think that there are a few hunter judges out there who agree with me- i can probably pick 5 out of my address book right now. After all, is performance was more in important than conformation, then i'm pretty sure we would have an excellent line up of the most well-mannered riding school horses that look a bit like hunters if one had to label them as something
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Post by josie1234 on Jul 16, 2009 17:19:18 GMT
princessv what is the perfect hunter in your eyes? This is not a jab I would just like to know as I have never shown a hunter before. They don't seem to have breed characteristics like M&M's. This is probably because they are a "type" not a breed.
Isn't the weights done on the amount of bone or somthing? Or weight they can carry? How would you measure the amount of bone?
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Post by mummykins on Jul 18, 2009 18:23:17 GMT
princessv,
Conformation, manners and the way of going, plus turnout, apptitude of the rider and the horse's temperament, on the day, all count towards the result! Oh and of course, the apptitude of the judge rider and conformation judge!! All these factors MUST play a part in the placings!
The best of the best have a bad day, so let's see fair play. This goes for every class at every show.
Afterall, tomorrow is another day. We all need the negatives to enjoy the positives, otherwise how can we measure ourselves?
We are all bias towards one type or another (horses, riders, judges, shows, etc). We all want to win and that's why we show. Let us all enjoy the preparation (hard work it maybe), the occasion and the outcome. We all love it and are very lucky to be able to take part in this wonderful activity.
Mummykins x
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In my mind this defines the perfect hunter one that you could ride hunting all day, that you could pull up with your little finger and feel safe! I do agree that conformation and type counts for alot but do you think ride and manners count aswell?