NHS

[gtr121]

I spent a lot of time today waiting at a hospital for a friend who had an appointment there. As I sat there bored I noticed various dubious stains up the walls, dirt so thick I could have planted my new taties around the edge of the corridor, spider webs thick with dust and 2 cleaners strolling slowly to who knows where. Is this the norm now?

[Milliesmum]

I know where you're coming from, but I have to say my family have definitely had their money's worth out of the NHS - my dad is in the new Derby Royal hospital at the moment, and it's pristine, but then that might just be because it's new!

Outside is another matter though - beautiful new hospital, huge place but they have piddling little carparks that are always full!

[gtr121]

Forgot to say I had to park my car about 3 miles away from where I was waiting and had to pay £3.00 for the pleasure.

[zac]

I think its an utter disgrace what you get charged for hospital parking. x TOTAL RIP OFF x

[Ziggy]

It is not just patients/visitors that have to pay for parking. At a lot of hospitasl staff have to pay a certain amount out of their wages too. thank goodness i work in the community! Mind you only get very small amount for petrol and I can do 50-100 miles in one night! should have married a rich man not gone into the NHS workforce that is for sure.

[Milliesmum]

I don't have a problem with paying for parking - but I do think in certain cases (long term or terminal illnesses, sick children etc.), that the wards should be able to issue you with a free pass at their discretion. At the derby hospitals you can buy a weekly car parking pass for £9.00, which does save you a fair bit of money if you're visiting every day. I also think that the amounts charged are excessive, but I suppose it has to be as expensive as the pay and displays in town, otherwise people would park and then go off for a jolly round town.

[tbgirl]

if thats the case im my place of work then ward staff will get the parking ticket validated and the user just pays a flat fee of £2, if they have a relative/friend in with long term/terminal illness ect. I have money automatically deducted from my wages every month to use the staff car parks. Bank or agency staff have to use the visitor spaces and pay the full rate! madness

[gtr121]

The car parking was not really my moan but the FILTH in the hospital really worried me. If my horse or dog went to a vets that filthy I would remove it without thought! Why do humans put up with it?

[Milliesmum]

Well in this new hospital we have in Derby, can't say I experienced any filth! The old one however was another matter. I think it all comes down to money and under staffing - I think NHS workers work d**ned hard, there just aren't enough of them, and that's across the board, not just cleaners

[suecoeden]

I sat with my sister holding our Mum's hand while she died in a room that the plaster was falling off the walls it was so damp and dirty.
That was Fairfield General in Bury, Greater Manchester.
She was admitted with a water infection but fell during the night while trying to find the toilet(she was blind) and broke her hip! The hospital denied this had happened and kept her a full week in agony until we hit the roof and demanded that she be ex-rayed.
Long story short....it took her 10 weeks before she succumbed to heart failure brought on by the pain and shock of the fracture. During that time she was overdosed on insulin and put into a diabetic coma and endured weeks and weeks of neglect. We took turns sleeping at her side in the chair to make sure she would have a drink or something to eat. We were treated like lepers. The car park charges ran into hundreds of pounds. The 'Bank Nurses' who were employed to do the night shifts were in the main a load of useless 'bit*hes' who were only there for the money and didn't give a stuff about the patients. Some couldn't even speak English!
You can now draw your own conclusions about my opinion of the N.H.S.

We tried to bring the Hospital to a tribunal after she died to get the conditions altered. The management went into complete denial and the bottom line of the outcome was this:
Had Mum lived she would have been able to sue them but because we were doing it the law said that 'nothing' had happened to us therefore we couldn't!

[gtr121]

I had to make a swift exit when after four days in intesive care I was put on a general ward. I had smashed several ribs into lots of pieces (naughty horse) and found lying down impossible so I asked for another pillow. You would have thought that I had asked for the Crown Jewels. A total cow of a nurse told me I was only allowed 2 pillows so after a night of agony I departed. I don't think that I could have manged to stare at all that dirt and smelt the stench any longer anyhow. As for their understanding of nutrition it beggars belief. Next time I hope that they take me to the vets.

[kickon]

How don't get me started !! I have had the trip from hell. These people do commit MURDER. WE WORKED SHIFTS TO KEEP MY FATHER ALIVE AND FREE FROM THERE ABUSE.. I got him home in the end and the sugeon said he would not have survived if I had not taken on his care at the hospital. There maybe some good places but as for the rest? MAY GOD HELP US ALL.

[Guestless]

Cleanliness in hospitals went down the tube as soon as the NHS contracted it out. It's just another job to outside contractors and they don't have the same sense of pride as the old fashioned hospital cleaners.

My mum and sister both had excellent treatment from NHS before they died, but I do think treatment seems to vary from area to area. Postcode lotteries are absolutely disgraceful.

[ponymum]

Sept 1, 2009 10:53:36 GMT suecoeden said:

I sat with my sister holding our Mum's hand while she died in a room that the plaster was falling off the walls it was so damp and dirty.
That was Fairfield General in Bury, Greater Manchester.
She was admitted with a water infection but fell during the night while trying to find the toilet(she was blind) and broke her hip! The hospital denied this had happened and kept her a full week in agony until we hit the roof and demanded that she be ex-rayed.
Long story short....it took her 10 weeks before she succumbed to heart failure brought on by the pain and shock of the fracture. During that time she was overdosed on insulin and put into a diabetic coma and endured weeks and weeks of neglect. We took turns sleeping at her side in the chair to make sure she would have a drink or something to eat. We were treated like lepers. The car park charges ran into hundreds of pounds. The 'Bank Nurses' who were employed to do the night shifts were in the main a load of useless 'bit*hes' who were only there for the money and didn't give a stuff about the patients. Some couldn't even speak English!
You can now draw your own conclusions about my opinion of the N.H.S.

We tried to bring the Hospital to a tribunal after she died to get the conditions altered. The management went into complete denial and the bottom line of the outcome was this:
Had Mum lived she would have been able to sue them but because we were doing it the law said that 'nothing' had happened to us therefore we couldn't!

Dont worry suecoeden, I am suing Fairfield hospital for Medical negligence,,,,they have already in a letter admitted liability and my solicitors have now appointed an independant expert to represent me....I will get the desired result and I hope you will get some satisfaction out of hearing about the case when it goes to court....So sorry for your loss, but i will not rest until somebody takes responsibility for not careing for my (and your) mother xxxxxx

[dsmum]

I work in the NHS. I am now in management but still undertake clinical care. I am really proud of where I work and the clinical care that people receive. The population we serve are mostly very poor and very old...to me it is a privilege to care for those who cannot care for themselves. Sometimes we get it wrong and when we do we apologise - at least where I work. I would have no hesitation being treated in my hospitals (Eastbourne and the Conquest in Hastings) myself.

[dsmum]

oops forgot to say...with regards to the car parking charges...it is really difficult. The local authority only allow a percentage of space to be allocated regardless of the numbers of people who work and need to visit hospitals. We pay 50p a day. Regular visitors who are either receiving regular treatment or visiting a longer stay patient can ask the ward staff or OPD staff for a pass which allows them to park either at a very reduced rate or free. You need to ask. As a HG member Im happy to informally chat to another HG member about their particular issue if it would help. pm in the first instance.

[greynag]

Folk are very quick to stick the boot into a service that is unrivalled in any other country. Yes it has its problems. But these are the minority.

My mother was diagnosed with cancer earlier this year and the care and treatment she recieved from NHS Tayside was second to none. The NHS is understaffed and lacking funds. But dont blame them. Blame the government that we have elected to represent us.

I work for the NHS and have never met such professional, dedicated and hard working people as those who look after our wards and the associated services behind it.

If you have a gripe, don't come onto HG and moan. Vote at the polling stations for someone who will drag us out of this mess that the current government has landed us in.

[alys]

I work with a lot of elderly patients , in my profession, and I hear stories on a daily basis that chill me to my core! I see first hand the dirt and total lack of humanity shown to a lot of people. I think it is partly because nurses now have a 'Degree' and feel they are above the basics, one actually said' I have a degree ,I dont clean or feed' Now that may be true but how can they work in the filth is beyond me, and I couldn't let someone go hungry, whaever my qualifications,surely that is just common humanity! I also hear some fantastic stories from abroad, so I am not sure we do have the best healthcare system now. Why do people always whinge about pay, they know the rate when they join, and it is a caring profession, if you dont care do something that pays better and that you want to do!
I am tired of all the excuses, it isnt rocket science it is basic common sense, something which is disapearing in this tick box society

[gtr121]

Greynag. Who can we vote for to get us out of this mess? We have a 'choice' of Labour or Conservative realistically being voted in. I can't see the difference between the two, they are all lying, swindling idiots. If NOBODY voted we might be in with a chance of a change

[kayjayem]

When hubby had a burst appendix was taken into local hospital on military ward. They were absolutely fantastic! They had a matron who was ranked major and they were terrified of her. She flew through the ward like a whirlwind in her big cape with pips on the shoulders and everything was immaculate. They all stood at the bedise and saluted as she came in - it was amazing to watch! Everything knew their job and did it or woe betide them. I don't know an awful lot about the NHS but if they followed this regimen and had a matron in charge surely everyone would be responsible for their own job and be overseen and there would be no "not my job" mentality.

[suecoeden]

We wish you every success 'ponymum'!! It still hurts very badly that we were not able to bring the culprits to justice for their ill treatment of her.

Yes, the NHS is underfunded and voting for another political party might change things but:
being underfunded shouldn't alter people's humanity and as another post has said, how can you leave someone to lie in absolute distress and filth and do nothing about it?
I speak from experience and am very frightened to report that hospital is a killer for elderly patients.
I am aware that there is a 'lottery postcode' and some area's are better than others. Its ok defending the good ones, thats fine, but don't put your head in the sand and deny that the bad ones exist and are as diabolical as people say they are.
Helen and I nearly clobbered one nurse who was man handling our Mum while changing the sheet under her. She was in a vile temper and was rude to both us and Mum. We complained to her and about her attitude where upon she stalked off leaving us to clean Mum and finish her job. We went looking for her and her superior to get the issue sorted but was met with a brick wall of denial.
I sat one night with Mum and heard a poor lady calling for help for over an hour. She had been left in the freezing toilet and was made to wait untill the night staff finished other jobs before they went back for her. When the same thing happened the following night I went to see if I could help her and was set on by the nurses for interfering. We lost count of times witnessing meals and drinks being left out of reach of patients and then taken away untouched without a backward glance to see if the person actually wanted or needed it.
Mum's medication was 'cocked up' on four occasions and in one incident she was overdosed on insulin. Complete and utter incompetence abounded but not one apology.
Seeing how distessed we were about the whole thing another nurse took us to one side and actively encouraged us to make a formal complaint. She said that Hospital Staff couldn't change the system but complaints such as ours would eventually get things moving.

The curtains and floors were in the main dirty. Mums locker and table were not cleaned once in 10 weeks. We had to be there at meal times to feed her otherwise she wouldn't have had anything to eat. the 'blow up' mattress she lay on kept going down and without Helen and I constantly going for someone to fix it Mum would have been lay on an extremely hard bed for hours.
All this was in the 'General' wards where elderly patients were put. At the same time as Mum was enduring all of this Helen was admitted to another ward to have her gall bladder removed. The ward was immaculate and her treatment was far superior. You couldn't believe it was the same hospital.
I haven't come on here moaning thinking it will change the system; it won't!
I have tried unsuccessfully to get the system altered but the sheer overwhelming arrogance of hospital Management defeated us.
Don't imagine it won't happen to you or yours. This is England I am talking about and when you are hurt or very ill, to have the people you rely on most ignore you is a very frightening thing indeed !!

[Ziggy]

Greynag it was nice to read your comments. But as a nurse I am embarrassed when I read stories of peoples bad treatment on the NHS. However, I have been nursing for over 20 years and despite some reservations i do not regret my decision to join the profession all those years ago. it has taken a lot of sacrifice and hard work but at least i feel like I have made some difference to peoples lifes when I go home at the end of the day. (to the best of my ability anyway)
I work in the community and regularly care for terminally ill patients and I can say hand on heart that the majority of the patients i have visited had received excellent care from all concerned, nurses, medical staff and hospice staff. Yes, there may be some nurses who could go a long way to improve their practice but in hospital especially it is often very hard. Many nurses are restricted by staff shortages and bureaucracy and I am NOT trying to make excuses.
It does make me sad though that the profession now almost insists that nurses have degrees (I have Bsc hons degree). It is impossible to get anywhere in nursing without one. I do agree to a certain point that basic hands on nursing, like when I first qualified is being lost. Even if you have a degree you have to continually study to progress. I recently applied for a PG diploma. I did not get it because I have not done any further degree modules since I did the degree in 2000. The reason why was I have been bringing up a young family. In a profession that is mainly female is not very family friendly!
The only way that things will improve is if people complain at the time through the relevant complaints procedures of the hospital/service concerned. Like greynag quite rightly said HG is not the place to do it. sorry if I have offended anyone but I have to some degree stand up for the profession that has been my livelihood for so many years.

[whisky]

My mother also died in a dirty room at Heatherwood Hospital, Ascot. I had been there as a child when the wards were pristine and the grounds beautifully kept. Most of the nurses spoke very bad english so older people could not communicate with them. We nursed my mother every night until she died and the night staff sat and did nothing not even helping when my mother was so sick.

[gtr121]

If wards are so under staffed how do nurses find time to sit at the nurse's stations for hours on end talking and giggling whilst people are dying around them?

[dun4u]

Yes, bring back good old 'matron' then perhaps we will have some discipline which is so obviously needed.

[suecoeden]

Sorry 'nursey'!! I wasn't using HG to complain only to enlighten people about 'one' of the NHS hospitals and their appalling lack of humanity. I have used the appropriate channels and was met with a barrage of lies and arrogance.
If I have offended you and you are genuine then I apologise but the uncaring, inhuman, incompetants that I have encountered are deserving of every vitrolic remark my vocabulary can command.
You have surprised me when you detail the level of intelligence required to be a 'Nurse'. How is it then that the 'Bank' nurses employed by the NHS can barely speak the language much less read the patients notes?
As for keeping the place clean; how many degree's does it take to Mop a floor?
I never said everyone was as bad as the ones we experienced but can't quite understand how anyone can follow so called procedure when it is obviously causing neglect and distress!
These are the people who I think should be outed and got rid of!

[Ziggy]

No I am not offended, just saddened, really. but I fully understand peoples experinces of the NHS are not always positive. I myself have some horror stories of when I had my children and you would think as staff I might have possibly got slightly better treatment, oh no!
Bank nurses are taken on by NHS trusts that are desperate for staff, that is all that matters often. the problem is that often clening at hospitals is contracted out so is not always under the hospitals control, mad I know! (blame the government for that)
I do feel i am a 'genuine' nurse who really does care. The service I work for is under great pressure with extreme staff shortages but the sister who is the team leader is 'old school' and would not let any of us get away with bad practice of any shape or form. i recently made an error of judgement, she made sure i knew my mistake. After a severe reprimand i'll think carefully next time. If only thre were more like her running the NHS it would have glowing reports on HG not the like the one's documented here. Like I said it just makes me sad. I love my job and hope that whenever i put on my uniform I can and do make a difference.

[alys]

We could spend every penny this country has on the NHS and it wouldnt be enough! If you cannot see that a patient lying in filth should be attended to as a prioty ,you are definitely in the wrong job. People dying of malnutrition in a hospital,unbelievable! Every politician should be admitted to an NHS hospital,undercover ,for a week and perhaps we would see a change. When they come on television and talk about the 'Angels' working in the NHS ,I dont know whether to laugh or cry! It costs nothing to be polite and to remember who is paying their wages, perhaps if the were paid by the patient at the end of their stay, it would focus their minds a little. And ,to be fair , doctors also must see the dirt and squalor or are they all blind? Do they not question anything either? Dont blame just the nurses ,the whole system is a cop out, any critism is met by' All our staff are angels blah blah' It is not the politicians working in the NHS it is the staff and how can you blame a politician for filth and lack of humanity ,when that is just passing the buck. Lets blame'Lack of resources' how does that effect your ability for a kind word or to change a bed? Everyone working in the NHS must know there is something intrinsicaly wrong or do they just not care?

[poniesrus]

I know I'm coming in rather late on this, but i'm also in Hospital Management and have only just read this.

Could I perhaps ask you all a couple of questions ?

• What are your thoughts on illegal immigrants and the treatment they get from the NHS ?
  
  
• What are your thoughts on drunks and those who take drugs ?
  

My reason for asking is that there are an awful lot of people who stand by illegal immigrants being able to reside in the UK ... however they have absolutely no idea how much money that sucks from the NHS system and the responsibility the NHS has to those people.

When all our UK patients are admitted with things like TB, AIDS/HIV, Hepatitis etc they are given whatever the cheapest drugs are that they have.

When illegal immigrants are admitted for the same things, they HAVE to be given the more expensive drugs as that is what the Geneva Convention entitles them to - the best treatment available !!!

Take someone with AIDS for example - the difference in cost of the clinical care and the medication is HUGE !!

Following on, Friday, Saturday, often every night of the week, most Hospitals with an A&E Department will be dealing with injuries and accidents occuring because of people who are to pi$$ed to be able to stand up, or to drugged to be able to state their own name. Then you get the ones who have drunk, got depressed because of their drinking and taken a couple of loads of paracetamols etc in a pathetic attempt to do themselves in.

They have to be admitted, they have to be treated, they take up a bed, they take up nursing time, doctors time, radiographers time, money, etc etc.

Having been one of the Hospital Administrators for a very large teaching hospital in the UK, with the responsibility for regular nights where I take the Administrator bleep and do the on-call, I have to say there is nothing pi$$es off the medical and nursing staff more than having A&E over half filled with a load of drug/drunks !!!

So the next time someone witness' bad cleanliness, bad nursing care, bad medical management, bad attitudes, bad basic care etc .... don't sit back on your haunches and moan about it on unrelated forums. Yes, by all means moan on sites such as this, as it gives us 'staff' the opportunity to go to our hospitals and ensure our staff ARE doing their jobs and patients ARE being looked after appropriately. But, please, please write out your complaints, include any photo's you are able to take, send it to the relevant Trust's Chief Executive, send a copy to whichever moran is the 'Health Secretary' in Government at the time and send it to the ruddy national press !!!!! If you have a problem with a particular doctor, beit it a SHO, SpR, Consultant, GP etc, don't sit back and put up with it - do a complaint to the above and include a copy to the BMA.

But also, the next time you go in to town on a Saturday night and see an ambulance taking away some drunk whose been scraped of the pavement .... remember, that is what your taxes are being wasted on !!!!!

I will not support nursing staff who are negligent in their jobs and who fail their patients ..... every single patient has a right to the best care those nurses are able to provide and if they fail in that duty, then they should be removed from their posts - end off - to me there is no middle ground in that respect.

I have removed a staff nurse from a night shift, who was found by a patients relative sleeping in a side room. It turnt out that she was also doing agency work through the days and therefore was incapable of providing the service she was employed to provide at night. There is no excuse for such things !!

Last year my own father was admitted as an emergency with burst stomach ulcers. I jumped on a flight in to Heathrow and was at the hospital within 4 hours. I expected the same level or care and service from their nurses as I do from my own ... I'm afraid they took my wrath a few times and I did not hesitate in insisting one of the nurses got the mop and bucket and cleaned around my father's bed at just gone midnight of the day he was admitted because of the filth. It was either that or I took samples and called in Public Health !!

However, I still contacted their Infection Control team the following day and insisted they come and look at the state of the ward .... they bought in a cleaning team there and then and insisted the place was blitzed. You could actually see the white on the window sills and could see out the windows when they had finished !!

You have to put your foot down and complain HARD !! Don't leave it until a relative has died. Insist they hook the Consultant in, insist they get the Medical Director and Hospital Administrators in, go in hard and fast and do not let them give you excuses !!!

I always welcome complaints to myself, as I would much rather know if a ward/department is below standards, as it's impossible to check each individual ward. patient and department daily !!

[suecoeden]

In reply to the last post!
You are obviously not on the Management team in the 'Penine Trust'! Your comments are exactly the attitude I would have expected from a Management Representative! You are to be applauded. Your Comments about Ilegal Immigrants has enraged me further because now I understand why our Mum who worked all her life and paid into the system, was side-lined in favour of our 'foreign friends'! Not hearsay; it actually happened! When we questioned what was going on we were fobbed off with "they are more of an emegency than your Mum".
Neither myself nor my sister are 'wilting lily's' and we too took only so much of the ridiculous state of affairs and then we too 'Blew'!
Whenever possible we didn't move from the side of our mothers bed for 10 weeks. We took it in turn to stay with her and slept in the chair at her side. All the while being treated like a couple of lepers and receiving ill tempered bad manners from some of the Nursing Staff who obviously felt threatened by us. Other nurses helped us and sympathised!
The very worst culprit was the Sister on Ward 18 of Fairfield who detested the stand we had made and was enraged by our presence. Not only did we have the battle of wills with her but the 'Consultant' who mis-diagnosed our mother was a complete and utter Snob and refused to even look at us when he spoke. Her slavering obsequeous attitude toward him as he did the rounds was sickening. We flew into a rage with his incompetence and demanded that he be removed from our mothers case and another appointed.
On one occasion I had to go three times to the Nurses Station and ask for pain relief to be administered to Mum when she had been nil by mouth for over 12 hours and then knocked back from surgery for that day! The blithering Idiot who was the 'ward doctor' for that day was too busy 'chatting up' another Nurse in the Station to come. After an hour I virtually had to Scream in his face to get him to move!
We HAVE done all you did and more beside. All this was too late for our Mum because the damage had already been done.
I won't keep posting here about all this because it is far too upsetting!
One last thing though; while all your instincts tell you to complain and get things moving the other side is that while you are not there with them, some of the Nursing Staff actively Bully the patients who have had a relative cause trouble for them! There were occasions when we had to bite our tongues because we were frightened of what would happen to Mum if we weren't there!
No, NOT all Nurses are bad! We met many who were Genuine and Kind! The ones who were the objects of my wrath should NEVER have been allowed inside a hospital other than to suffer the same treatment they dole out. That is the fault of MANAGEMENT!