kiwi
Newbie
Posts: 29 
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Post by kiwi on Dec 6, 2009 21:03:30 GMT
I am sitting here wondering why we bother to turn up at some shows when the placings are pretty much already made!!! Its soooo who you are and not how the pony goes!! I am just so fed up with it all now. My daughter was entered in two puk fr classes today. In the novice fr she was the only one in it and the open fr there were 3!!! My daughter did a nice show on her darty and looked manerly and pretty much foot perfect esp as he is only 5!!! but managed to come 3rd out of 3 even tho 1st place (which was a v nice pony to be fair) but the rider struggled to hold the pony together and wrong legged and 2nd place went to a pony that spooked and shot off (which made the child cry)....not really a fr then!!!! What else can you do??!!!  It occured to me that a lot of the fr classes that my daughter has been in lately have had very few competitors ....is it that people are beginning to realise how utterly corrupt it all is? ?? Especially as we are regulars under this particular judge....(not any more!!!!!!) ......or is it that we don't have a grey section A!!??!! Workers is it from now on .......at least it is slightly more fair! May be I should teach my ponies to buck...then we might win!!!!....Or rear.....we might go champion then!!!!!! |
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Post by sageandonion on Dec 6, 2009 21:10:51 GMT
Did you not ask the judge where improvement could be made or something to see why she placed your daughter third?
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Post by reubenlover on Dec 6, 2009 21:12:07 GMT
I totally agree kiwi!! These judges are not fair on the ponies that do well in their shows, or the children that try their hardest on their ponies. I too have seen this happen, to a friend of mine and her daughter, this happens on the days when the pair are both trying their hardest! Its not fair, especially as the daughter tries extremley hard with her ponies only to be knocked down by the judges OR producers. I'd say you have have a child on the floor for it to be a HOYS fr pony though  |
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kiwi
Newbie
Posts: 29
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Post by kiwi on Dec 6, 2009 21:24:32 GMT
Its not worth asking judges why they placed a pony where they did as they will think that we are bad losers and it just isn't worth it!! I was informed that this particular judge was once suspended from judging ...(says a lot I think!!)
First riddens should be fr's but it seems to me the sharper they are the better!!My darty was warmed up for 5 mins by my daughter....the others by the parents or producers!!! May be I should also get my daughter to have her pony above the bridle too!!! My daughter and I put a lot of work in to our ponies....and for not much return!!!!! I work full time as well as studying and nights/wk ends on call and winter is a nightmare but still we get out there and give it a go!!!! Not sure I can be bothered anymore!!!!!
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Post by lollipop on Dec 6, 2009 22:08:02 GMT
Hi, we have had shows which describe your result and agree totally frustrating & make you want to give up but we have had other shows where judges have seen my daughters FYFR was the genuine atricle and now my little boys FR is 5 and a saint and they have been rewarded with winning the class so try another judge before you tar them allwith the same brush  |
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Post by Balvenie on Dec 7, 2009 0:11:17 GMT
It occured to me that a lot of the fr classes that my daughter has been in lately have had very few competitors Kiwi just wondering which area you are in? The FR and FYFR I've judged lately have had loads of entries forward. Last week I had 18 in the FYFR and 22 in the FR! |
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Post by sarah00000 on Dec 7, 2009 6:41:43 GMT
Are all these judges corrupt or just not very good?
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Post by kma on Dec 7, 2009 7:34:55 GMT
i must admit i too have had my eyes opened on this class in the past few weeks. Same goes for the lead rein classes. Last weekend the winner of the mini champ was in no way suitable for a child, it spent the majority of the time on its hind legs outside of the ring and in fact did it in the ring too although fortunately the judge did send it out, but it did come back to be champ. Ponies seem to spend most of their time so strapped in that they lose the walk completely as they are no longer able to stretch through from their shoulder. If you have a fr that is sane, sensible, goes correctly with correct conformation you dont get a look in!
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Post by heathers on Dec 7, 2009 22:32:48 GMT
what an animal does outside the ring and out of sight of any judge, can not be regarded when in the ring.
from what i understand this pony that reared won its class under one judge then went under another judge in the championship and went foot perfect to win the champion.
i dont know how it went when its class was won under the first judge though
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2009 13:22:06 GMT
Please don't be down on us judges- just don't enter again under the ones you feel didn't give you a fair look at- I can assure there are good straight judges out there |
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Post by robertparkerjones on Dec 9, 2009 22:25:01 GMT
There was a time when in the winter people gave their ponies a break! They also had a break themselves and had time to unwind and reflect. Now its showing 24/7 and people are never satisfied. We all know how ponies should go...... we know what is acceptable and not! I agree with those people who think they should give up if they're not happy. I wouldn't waste my time or money on anything that gave me such immense displeasure!!!
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kayjayem
Happy to help....a lot
Posts: 10,046
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Post by kayjayem on Dec 9, 2009 23:00:01 GMT
As you say you are regulars under that particular judge but not any more you may find that your results will improve. Either the judge didn't like your pony(or maybe it was personal) but if you avoid him/her you should get better results if they are deserved. Good Luck!
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halfpass
Happy to help....a lot
Return of the Dame
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Post by halfpass on Dec 9, 2009 23:41:11 GMT
There was a time when in the winter people gave their ponies a break! They also had a break themselves and had time to unwind and reflect. Now its showing 24/7 and people are never satisfied. We all know how ponies should go...... we know what is acceptable and not! I agree with those people who think they should give up if they're not happy. I wouldn't waste my time or money on anything that gave me such immense displeasure!!! I have to agree with this, I have been showing for more years than I care to remember, if it gave me so much displeasure then I would give up, after all this is supposed to be a fun. |
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Post by donkeydo on Dec 10, 2009 0:39:21 GMT
Quite agree! its supposed to be fun!
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Post by ellieraga on Dec 10, 2009 9:34:51 GMT
Seems sad that people dont seem to be enjoying like they use too, especially when young children are involved, the fact they are out there doing what a million other kids would love to do but dont get the chance is great enough, what would you prefer for them to be sitting in on playsatation or x box At the end of the day judging is down to personal opinion, and thankfully each judge is different, there have been days when i think we should of been placed higher , and the judge has seen it differentley, on the other hand we have won when not expected, but as long as pony and rider are happy and had a good day then im happy too |
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Post by elliebee on Dec 11, 2009 21:01:20 GMT
At the end of the day that is showing for you!! we all know it goes on and we all moan about it, Yes it's unfair but we do showing because we enjoy the day and taking part. I always go out and do my best and if the judge doesn't like what they see then that's their opinion, If a pony gets put above us that was naughty or bad conformation in my eyes then I just laugh, as long as we have enjoyed ourselves and the pony went well and my little one rode well, what more can I do? At least I can hold my head up high. Some you win, some you lose. Even the producers don't always win!!!
Don't think you should give up if you enjoy it, It's always gonna go on no matter how much we moan about it, Some are bent, some are fantasic and fair and some just don't have a clue (jugdes) xxxx
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Post by ponymum on Dec 11, 2009 21:48:02 GMT
without wanting to sound derogatory, "Every dog has it's day"
I tell that to my own daughter all the time , Not everybody can win all the time! xx
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Post by dawnie on Dec 12, 2009 11:16:01 GMT
Your too right ... every dog has its day. My son used say "oh well nover day nover judge" and aslong as his pony had done what he had asked of him he really didnt seem to give a monkey where he was in the line up. (with the exception of being place 5th .. lmao as he really hated getting a pink rossette and it the only time I have heard him complain loudly but even that was light hearted)
Judging boils down to opinions, and different judges have different opinions about what they believe fits the bill so to speak as do the competitors . Lets face it .. were is the "rule book of showing" with the hard and fast rules of what should be judged and what should take priority over what? It's a matter of figuring out who shares your opinion and only going under them if winning is all that matters.
Speaking of 1st ridden ponies. I once judged a class of 1st ridden and put up a star of little pony who nursed his jockey round and "waited" to be ridden if you understand what I mean I guess it lacked a bit of spark but to my mind made a perfect 1st ridden. Standing 5th I had a really lovely A who made my jaw drop the moment it came in the ring, however its little jockey was brilliant and fearless, it went well but she was constantly fighting to keep this very forward going pony from tanking. The ringside team seemed less than happy that this pony had stood 5th (there were only 5 in) but tootled off saying nothing to me. Later on .. open M&M small breeds. In comes said gorgeous pony again and I kind if sighed a sigh of releif and it did kind of break my heart putting this pony down the line in the 1st ridden. It went round beautifully, a little more settled but still forward going. It won the class and the pony who had won the 1st ridden was down the line. Now that was MY opinion and what did I get? One of the "ringside team" match in the ring and threw both rossettes at me saying I was and idiot and didn't I realise I had just dumped this pony in another class? My only comment was " you have a lovely open pony and an extremely talented little jockey" Perhaps others would not have judged it that way as I over look a few conformation faults and prefer safety for a 1st ridden.
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Post by ponymum on Dec 12, 2009 12:16:04 GMT
Dawnie - from the sound of it, you judged to type! well done other judges would of just gone for the flashy pony, which quite rightly deserved its win in the open. we have a pony that this happens to, and you just have to be objective about it - however some less experienced parents/pony owners dont understand that!
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fredaf
Junior Member
Posts: 173
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Post by fredaf on Dec 12, 2009 12:22:29 GMT
Well said Dawnie, its a pity more people don't seem to understand the why's and wherefores of judging!
I think/hope most judges are happy to explain the reasons for their decisions but competitiors have to ask - preferably nicely - sometimes I think it would be good if the reasons for placings could be expained because then maybe competitiors would understand..... but there isn't always time.
The basis is of course that its the judges decision on the day, according to the rules of the class/society. Also quite often people don't seem to remember that each class is a seperate event so if a pony has been very naughty in one class but then comes back in another class and behaves impeccably it has as much chance of winning as any one else in the class.
The other at the moment seems to be championships ...usually the championship is judged as a seperate class and if a pony having won the first class of the day and maybe then won a second class under a different judge comes forward for a championship having done several more classes, which it may or may not have won, the chances of it becoming champion may be less than the second placed pony who has taken things more slowly, and comes out of the box looking fresher and still sparkling.
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kiwi
Newbie
Posts: 29
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Post by kiwi on Dec 12, 2009 17:00:31 GMT
It is nice to hear that not all judges just want a flashy sharp pony for fr classes......!!!!! May be there is hope!!!!!!
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Post by thecremellosociety on Dec 12, 2009 17:28:52 GMT
I have done exactly the same, in FR & LR, at the end of the day the priority in these classes is safety, i have had the sorry to be frank here, quite ugly, heinz 57 up above something that was conformationally pretty perfect, in a FR class as pony was doing its job. The Flashy one came back in a open class and won, as didnt mind the more sparkle it had but not in First Ridden so all comes down to the class you are judging.
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Post by ShowPonies&Shetlands on Dec 12, 2009 18:20:19 GMT
i love going to local shows because as well as being cheap, the judges judge the pony on the criteria for the class, don't put names first, and are often very sympathetic to the children who perhaps don't do as well, patting the ponies and saying how lovely they are, and IMHO if i got a first in a class and a fifth in another, i would be blimming happy that i had got a first at all. i started showing when i was 10 as opposed to earlier, and although my pony was nice, i didn't enter classes expecting to win, i entered to have fun - winning the rosettes were an unexpected bonus! i think we need to remember that, as it says in the books, showing is about a family day out, promoting breeds and types, and enjoying your pony in a different environment. sorry for essay lol |
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Post by lucretia on Dec 12, 2009 19:05:27 GMT
You have to judge the class as described. I once judged a lead rein pony that had won under me before outdoors quite a few times. In an indoor arena he was very sharp and so down he went. On another occasion a very wound up youngster stood bottom of his ridden class but later settled, came in and won in hand and took champion.
It is not always easy to understand judges decisions but on the day I was always taught to accept your placing gracefully with a smile, and politely ask for an opinion if there is time and you arent sure why you were placed where you were.
I also beleive as a judge if you are pleasant and fair to competitors and give them the best you can when judging their animal the majority enjoy themselves and feel they have had value for money. Finally there is always something nice to say about any pony or horse even if it is bottom of the line.It may not be a winner on the day but it has been washed, groomed boxed, worked in and brought forward for the honour of us judges to give an opinion. I beleive we can make it enjoyable even giving someone the last place. Oh and I always speak to every single competitor even just to say thank you and well done.
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Post by fayeandash on Dec 12, 2009 23:42:31 GMT
we have had this a lot, my daughters pony is very safe and steady, when she was really small (aged 5) in the first ridden she didn't get a look in, pony did everything he was asked to do, and she was always at the bottom of the line, i used to wonder why, and still do, but now she is able to push him forward and show him off more she gets placed higher, but i think it looks a lot better for the pony to do what the rider tells it to, rather than a polished show which has beeen practised loads at home, probably with an adult - but not always, my daughters first experience at fr was at a show where she made our pony trot out of the line up without stopping for the judge, do her show then trot back to the line up, she won, and i think both her and the pony deserved this, he did everything my daughter asked without an arguement, even managed a few strides of canter, it made me so proud, but that is what first ridden is about, the pony should do what the jockey asks, and no more, i don't like to see a first ridden jockey having to tug at the reins to slow the pony down, and a spooky pony should be at the bottom, but every person has their own opinion.
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kiwi
Newbie
Posts: 29
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Post by kiwi on Dec 14, 2009 22:00:41 GMT
Every judge has a preference in type but I do feel that it is all very facey!!! Myself and my daughter are more than happy to stand at the bottom of the line if deserved - Even if the ponies have gone well...sometimes the standard is very high and and there are some fantastic ponies out there...... and thats fine...but the fact that ponies can misbehave and still placed top just because the rider is well known is wrong!!!
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Post by ferret on Dec 15, 2009 8:49:40 GMT
i do quite alot of local judging ,but compete and try to steward when i can at a higher level .
It is really interesting when you are stewarding to hear different judges opinions and 'pet' hates !
Some judges really cant bear certain things and have very strong views and this does effect the placings !
I have a good little list of judges i have stewarded for and what their likes and dislikes are , so if you get the chance to steward for an experienced judge i would take the opportunity as you learn alot !!!
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Post by heathers on Dec 15, 2009 11:26:07 GMT
There was a time when in the winter people gave their ponies a break! They also had a break themselves and had time to unwind and reflect. Now its showing 24/7 and people are never satisfied. We all know how ponies should go...... we know what is acceptable and not! I agree with those people who think they should give up if they're not happy. I wouldn't waste my time or money on anything that gave me such immense displeasure!!! i got to agree with this. by the time september arives i am ready for a break. i havent been to a foal show for 12 years. |
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Dec 16, 2009 9:31:27 GMT
I like to do a few foal shows if possible, good for the babies' education, but that's the end of the season for me except any late finals we may have qualified for. Plenty of other things to do in the winter even without riding - it's the time for weaning and training foals, sold weanlings going, maybe other stud members to be sorted out and acquired or sold or earmarked for later sale, ponies sent off for winter grazing and a general reassessment done for next year - sorting out future coverings a favourite occupation - and then after Christmas starting to get any due to be shown the next year in and ready. Diary planning for next year too!
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Post by brt on Dec 16, 2009 9:46:11 GMT
There was a time when in the winter people gave their ponies a break! They also had a break themselves and had time to unwind and reflect. Now its showing 24/7 and people are never satisfied. We all know how ponies should go...... we know what is acceptable and not! I agree with those people who think they should give up if they're not happy. I wouldn't waste my time or money on anything that gave me such immense displeasure!!! Totally agree, I think that as you say, both horses and owners need a break. I very rarely show, if all, in winter. Come October, my are thrown out and given time to digest experiences of the show season and actually look like scruffy M&Ms. They don't get much done with them at all until January/Febuary then they come in have their manes and tails pulled and te smartening up begins. Same goes for me, i rest and reflect on the previous year without emotion and plan my next season with or without the judges i like or dislike. |
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