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Post by abitpeeved on Jan 18, 2010 23:53:14 GMT
A person i know has a horse that has sustained several leg injuries. I was insured with E&L, for everything- ie. all activies, vets fees, riders dental fees etc.
the horse was insured for £3500 ish but when claiming loss of use, the vet said the horse was not worth this before the injuries, so the insurance company payed out £2500- similar value to what was paid for the horse.
now the horse had existing leg problems which the vet did not explain to the insurance company- before the horse was insured.
furthermore- as permanent loss of use was claimed for, on the grounds that the horse in question will remain in field, as it's not in pain, but can not compete, breed (it's a gelding) or even be ridden as it would be dangerous for this horse to carry any weight.
now a year on- the horse has recovered from leg problems (at the moment- we all know how unpredictable tendon/ligament problems can be) but the owners allow their child to ride the horse on a regular basis, and it has evem done a whp course. this is great that it has made a good recovery BUT:
a) dangerous for the horse/child as it was declared unsafe to ride by 2 vets
b) surely illegal that this horse has won prize money and is out competing with a giant loss of use brand, the poor insurance company who has payed out (surely illegal on the horse owners behalf)
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Post by dun4u on Jan 19, 2010 16:03:13 GMT
It may or may not be right but I am wondering why this issue bothers you enough to post on here. Are you suggesting that the horse was insured illegally or are you accusing the owner of obtaining an insurance payout fraudulently?
If the majority of replies posted on here suggest that this is definitely wrong, then what do you intend to do? Will you ring the Insurance Company?
Have you discussed your worries with the said owner of the horse? If so, did he/she tell you to mind your own business?
OK, so perhaps the child rider is at risk whilst riding the horse, but probably no more than riding any other horse or pony - anything could happen at any time, even with a 'sound' horse.
It's good that the horse seems to have recovered from the leg problems and, as long as it is definitely NOT in pain then IMO he'll be probably a lot happier doing a bit of work and competing now and again, than being turned away forever and a day.
I shall be interested to hear what others think.
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Post by dancer on Jan 19, 2010 16:23:18 GMT
I'm amazed they got anything out of E&L!
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Post by naughtynags on Jan 19, 2010 16:39:10 GMT
i agree i know horses with loss on use go on to do great things, i think you just cant insure them again for loss of use or injury, also im amazed e and l gave them anything at all!!!
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Post by sageandonion on Jan 19, 2010 17:19:32 GMT
Do I think it is right? No, probably not. I do believe that insurance companies do have a proviso that if it recovers within a certain time period, you must repay the money.
If, for example, your trailer was stolen and then turned up, you would be required to repay the insurance payout of hand over the trailer to the insurance company.
I bought a county level show horse with an 'L'. It was most definitely fraudulent because he won a major county show six weeks after he was freezemarked (they dyed it). So it goes on quite a lot. He passed a five stage vetting completely cleanly!! and I had him insured with a company called Stoneways simply with an exclusion for the loss of use reason which was 'Red Clover poisoning'. Apparently there is no such thing.
If it bothers you so much, then report it to the insurance company. You do seem to have all the details and I suppose this is one of the reasons our premiums are so high.
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halfpass
Happy to help....a lot
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Post by halfpass on Jan 19, 2010 18:55:31 GMT
Is this horse yours or a third parties, you start this thread off " A person I know", then go onto "I was insured with E&L", if it is not your horse why would it matter who your insurance company are, as some one else has said if it bothers you that much report it to the insurance company and tell them you think a fraudulent claim has been made.
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ada
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Post by ada on Jan 19, 2010 20:08:28 GMT
horses can recover from horrific injury to come back to being useful and even doing great things, a friend of ours had a very useful showjumping horse that injured itself so badly the vet recommended that he should be PTS, the horses hock was mangled with a massive open wound, pete refused to give up on him and he eventually went on to win grand prix .
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Post by serendipity on Jan 19, 2010 20:38:34 GMT
I cannot find it in my heart to care a jot if someone gets a bit more than they probably should from E and L!!
As for being dangerous for the child - I don't think any more than riding any pony.
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kayjayem
Happy to help....a lot
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Post by kayjayem on Jan 19, 2010 21:40:24 GMT
Why should you be "abitpeeved". Whats it to you? So, it went round a whp course and got a bit of prize money.... what a tenner? And a child is getting pleasure from riding it. My goodness, you should be pleased the pony wasn't pts, and has got a second chance. Obviously you have got a problem with the person who made this claim. Well, why not go and call E&L....good luck to you if you manage to get through, and even better if you manage to speak to someone there with an IQ.
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Post by dun4u on Jan 19, 2010 23:28:57 GMT
Why should you be "abitpeeved". Whats it to you? So, it went round a whp course and got a bit of prize money.... what a tenner? And a child is getting pleasure from riding it. My goodness, you should be pleased the pony wasn't pts, and has got a second chance. Obviously you have got a problem with the person who made this claim. Well, why not go and call E&L....good luck to you if you manage to get through, and even better if you manage to speak to someone there with an IQ. Yes, it certainly looks as though you have a score to settle with that 'certain person'. All I can say is 'get a life' - 'abitpeeved'!!!!!!!
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sg
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Post by sg on Jan 20, 2010 0:30:14 GMT
There is no reason why a horse should not go on to compete after a loss of use payout; and why would it be dangerous for a child? Surely even if the problem were to reoccur it would simply go lame? I enquired about claiming for my pony; as a year on he was still lame. I could have got the money; and if he recovered that was simply luck. He could still compete and I would just have problems selling him (not that I would.)
Fair play to them for getting some money out of E & L!
As to the horse being lame before the policy; that would (if proven) be fraud; and as for non-disclosure by the vet surely a fitness to practice issue?
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Post by stormyskies on Jan 20, 2010 11:01:02 GMT
I THINK THEY DESERVE A ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR GETTING MONEY OUT OF E AND L!!!
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Post by boots & saddles on Jan 20, 2010 14:45:07 GMT
nice the pony was still kept alive and is happy, cause they could of choose the pts method instead and still got there money more if you dont keep the horse. i have a horse with a loss of use stamp on him he still goes out and wins and no one has ever said they were not happy about it. he had kissing spine is in full work and very happy also insured with no problems his spne now not covered. its such a shame that people just cant be happy that against possibly all the odds this horse made it,also wanted to say that not all horses with loss of use means they cant be ridden, just not may be to the level that they were brought for hence the owners claim loss of use get there money and get another one so the dont have to wait months to see if it will come good again,we all have that opition when we insure our ponies some choose not to claim and pray a lot. E AND L ARE A JOKE GETTNG MONEY OUT OF THEM IS LIKE GETTNG BLOOD OUT OF A STONE.
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Post by jenwalsh on Jan 20, 2010 14:51:46 GMT
I think that as long as it was done legiit then there is no reason why the horse cant be ridden again. We claimed loss of use on one of our horses who was diagnosed with DJD in both front coffin joints meaning that he could no longer do the job he was bought for and he was only 5 at the time (he stands 18'2 and the vets think that he basically just grew too fast and had inadequate SP?? nutrition as a youngster) anyway we retired him and kept him as pet then two years ago my sister decided to get back on him as he had been sound for 3 years (he was 10 by this point) and as long as he lives out and isnt stood on hard ground for too long he is rideable again and she even got him out to a couple of shows! dont get me wrong we have to be very careful of what we do with him and he is only ridden very lightly and never in the school (as it is too small) but i dont think that what we done was illegal in any way shape or form. I just think that you have a problem with these people
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vikki
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Post by vikki on Jan 20, 2010 16:06:14 GMT
It is fine to ride a horse stamped L as long as it is sound and happy you just can not insure it. I have no idea why you would think it is dangerous to ride this horse plenty of riding school horses are stamped L!! The riding school I worked for ( owned by the same person as E and L) had horses stamped L and as every one has said they have done well to get money from EandL!!!!!
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Post by poniesrus on Jan 20, 2010 16:31:49 GMT
I can tell you now that it wouldn't have been a fraudulent LOU anyway .... having gone through the process of getting a LOU on a horse, I can tell you the hassle and long drawn out process it is ... including, in most cases, being examined etc by a vet of the Insurance's choice !!
However, our lad got a LOU as he'd been bought for 3DE and couldn't do that etc. But he now lives with a lovely family and the daughter does unafflicted dressage with him, hacks him, does a bit of SJing with him etc.
I think it sounds like it's YOU that has whatever problem with this person/horse, for goodness sake let people get on with their own lives and find a life of your own !! It's not down to you or anyone else to go interferring and trying to cause trouble ..... !
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Post by dun4u on Jan 20, 2010 22:57:24 GMT
Have you noted the answers, 'abitpeeved'? Have you decided not to respond and keep your head down? Just as well I think, if you realise now that you could be making a fool of yourself and an issue out of nothing.
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halfpass
Happy to help....a lot
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Post by halfpass on Jan 21, 2010 0:03:37 GMT
I think that "Abitpeeved" has not responded and that I think the answer to the question has well and truley been answered this may as well be locked, if the person concerned would like it re-opened then can be done.
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