|
Post by karynk on Feb 11, 2010 19:05:28 GMT
If she is a true roan as opposed to sabino or rabicano it will most likely be a 50/50chance.
Roan was previously thought only to be available with one copy of the gene but there are some Quarter Horses proven by testing to have 2 roan genes. There are a lot of peculiar roans on the New Forest that have roan over their hindquarters only, that are by typical roan stallions.
Of course if dad was a grey then its 50/50 the foal will go grey and if he was a palomino 50/50 that you will get a palomino. But 100% the foal will be chestnut based.
You could get a palomino roan.
The interesting thing with roans is that if injured the hairs of the scar revert to the solid base colour, and don't go white like on a normal coat colour.
|
|
sjc
Full Member
Posts: 441
|
Post by sjc on Feb 18, 2010 8:16:28 GMT
Hi Karynk,
Her dad was chestnut and her mum was chestnut roan. Then her grand dam on both sides was chestnut roan while both of her grand sires were chestnut... I hope this helps!
Thanks sjc
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Feb 18, 2010 22:55:28 GMT
Karynk - if the grey sire wasn't chestnut based but bay/black then it wouldn't be 100% chestnut based! But we would need more info' on the genetics of the possible grey sire to go any further sjc.
|
|
sjc
Full Member
Posts: 441
|
Post by sjc on Feb 19, 2010 8:28:49 GMT
I have had a look at the parents of the two stallion which I may use. The grey stallion's dam is cream and the sire is chestnut. The Pally stallion's dam is pally and the sire is chestnut. Im looking to get a chestnut roan, but i know it might be a struggle with these colours! Thankyou again sjc
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Feb 19, 2010 8:34:34 GMT
So the grey stallion will be chestnut based, but could carry dilute as well as grey then.
If you REALLY want a chestnut roan, any chance of finding a chestnut stallion? Then you would have a 50:50 chance, assuming of course that your mare is a true roan and not sabino. If the latter, the inheritance is very erratic and there is no way of predicting how much roaning, or indeed white markings, the offspring might have.
|
|
sjc
Full Member
Posts: 441
|
Post by sjc on Feb 19, 2010 9:24:10 GMT
Thank you Sarahp,
Genetics are so confusing! How would i tell if she is a true roan? There are a couple of stallions around me which are chestnut but never thought to put her to one.
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Feb 19, 2010 9:44:24 GMT
True roans are the ones with white hairs throughout the coat except for the head and points and do not change colour over their lifetime but do do seasonally. Blackhill Picolo and his son Pinewell Bucks Fizz are both chestnut true roans if you want to google photos of them to look at. Roaning due to the sabino family of white marking genes is very variable, may well include head and legs and usually centres around the flanks. Sabinos often have long white sockings with jagged edges, white face markings which include chin markings and can have a blue eye here and there too, and occasionally a white belly splash too - although usually not all of these features at once.
Using a chestnut stallion limits the options, no chance then of getting grey or dilute coming through but of course the important thing is the conformation and not the colour!
|
|
sjc
Full Member
Posts: 441
|
Post by sjc on Feb 19, 2010 10:01:31 GMT
Thankyou sarahp, She is a true roan as she is just like pinewell bucks fizz in colour. She is very well bred herself and her previous foals have been stunning, although I toally agree that confirmation is the most important. The stallion I have in mind for her would be Heaton Romeo, but just realised that Pitty Beck Prince Charming is very close to us too , so I suppose I have plenty of options. Thankyou for your help , I suppose I just need to decide on a husband for her now! sjc
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Feb 19, 2010 11:45:02 GMT
Lucky you, I love roans! And have fun husband shopping.
|
|
|
Post by deejay on Feb 19, 2010 15:18:40 GMT
What an interesting thread this is - Genetics for the layperson!!
I have a genetics book which is quite hard going but I have grasped the basics. There are so many combinations involved in breeding for colour and mares never cease to surprise us. I have had a lovely palomino from a bay mare and a smokey black stallion but usually manage to breed bays with white socks!
This time I am sending a bay mare with four whites to a bay, slightly roan, stallion with four whites by Nebo Bouncer and am hoping for a bay foal (not keen on roan Sec C's) but I do want the Bouncer bloodline.
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Feb 19, 2010 16:55:55 GMT
I think sometimes the books make it seem more complicated than it is, if you work through bit by bit, or colour gene by colour gene it does all make sense. I'm always up for trying to answer questions, being a boring genetics freak!
Bouncer is sabino and not true roan by the way and son likely to be the same, very few true roan Cs or Ds around, most described as roan are sabinos, more true roan Bs than other sections I'd guess, some As too. Your chances of a bay foal should be good, could be chestnut if both parents carry it but the amount of white is unpredictable. I can think of Llanarth Brummel, Byfields Selyf and Gwelfro Tywysog for true roan cobs if you can remember that far back!
|
|
|
Post by deejay on Feb 19, 2010 17:16:37 GMT
Yes unfortunately, I can remember that far back. The mare is out of a Chestnut mare but I will keep my fingers crossed for another bay.
|
|
|
Post by Cobbler on Feb 21, 2010 8:36:28 GMT
I love this topic it fasinates me The foal I had last year was out of a Bay mare of unknown breeding, Dad was grey but born chestnut. I got a bay - there is a chance he could grey out but he hasn't done so far and there is no sign of him greying out so I think he will stay bay
|
|
|
Post by karynk on Feb 21, 2010 23:45:27 GMT
Karynk - if the grey sire wasn't chestnut based but bay/black then it wouldn't be 100% chestnut based! But we would need more info' on the genetics of the possible grey sire to go any further sjc. Actually what I said was if the stallion was palomino then its 100% the foal will be chestnut based and 50% chance of palomino.
|
|
|
Post by victoria (highhill) on Feb 22, 2010 7:32:10 GMT
I love this topic it fasinates me The foal I had last year was out of a Bay mare of unknown breeding, Dad was grey but born chestnut. I got a bay - there is a chance he could grey out but he hasn't done so far and there is no sign of him greying out so I think he will stay bay well you should have come to the SCWPCA AGM yesterday! Sarahp came and told us all about it - made it all make sense. thanks sarahp
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Feb 22, 2010 8:49:30 GMT
Karynk - You said "Of course if dad was a grey then its 50/50 the foal will go grey and if he was a palomino 50/50 that you will get a palomino. But 100% the foal will be chestnut based."
I apologise if I took it wrongly, but I understood it to mean that being 100% chestnut based applied to both possible sires, as you had discussed both the grey and dilute %s in the previous and separate sentence.
Thanks highhill, glad it made sense.
|
|
|
Post by Jenna on Feb 22, 2010 9:57:29 GMT
does anyone know what colour foal i would get from the following combination mare - dark bay (sire dark bay dam grey) stallion - chestnut (sire liver chestnut dam bay - i think)
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Feb 22, 2010 10:31:53 GMT
Chestnut, bay or black. No greys if the mare has stayed bay, that means she doesn't have a grey gene from her dam or she would herself be grey.
|
|
|
Post by Jenna on Feb 22, 2010 13:56:27 GMT
thank you sarahp
|
|