considering breeding

[tanya1989]

hi everyone, after a string of bad luck with my present boy, that we are looking at losing at worst and retired at best, i have thought about buying a broodmare and breeding my first foal.
i am unable to ride for at least another couple of years, so i have all the time in the world to start, so i am looking for all the information i can find on breeding a show horse. my passion being RH, hack types. i have ordered a couple of books to get me started; foal to full grown, and Veterinary Guide to Horse Breeding. i believe these are quite general breeding books.
my question is: are there any books specifically for breeding show horses. genetic type books etc?

[holiday]

Im not sure about books, but I start by studying bloodlines of the horses that are out and doing well, but look towards the future, my brood mares are chosen for their bloodlines, as well as being well put together, move well and with good temperaments. Be highly critical with your girls and fit the stallion to them with much consideration to improving any faults and you wont go far wrong, then you just need luck!!!!

ETS: Im sorry to hear about your boy and hope everything will improve for you.

[brindlerainbow]

Agree with holiday study bloodlines to see what throws best heads,better movement, good or bad temperaments!!! etc,etc.

[halfpass]

I wouldn't, there are so many really nice foals and yearling's for sale why not have a look at them at least you know what you are getting, with breeding it is all about luck, as has already been said you can cut the odds down, by looking at blood lines, temperament and comformation, but it still boils down to luck.

[Deleted]

I think that 75% of your foal is down to your mare- so be super highly critical and only buy the best you can afford - how about going to a big stud for some experience- foaling time is coming up and now is a good time- ask around- sure some will be glad of a hand and you will learn so much- better than reading any book- I do think it would be cheaper to buy a good youngster, but then you don't get the achievement factor the same- lots for you to weigh up- hope that helps

[tanya1989]

i would love to do something like that, i have considered some of the courses that the studs do, but i am unable to do anything practical as i am in a wheelchair. the foaling down aspect of things doesnt really concern me as the yard we are at regularly has foals and the staff are highly trained for that sort of work. it was more about the genetics behind it in helping me select a broodmare and an appropriate stallion.

i breed dogs so i understand the importance of selecting the appropriate matches to balance up particular weaknesses in conformation. for instance with my dogs: my boy has an excellent head, but is a little weak on the front end, a good topline and good angulation. a b!tch that has just come to him has a poor head, a straight front, good topline and good angulation, so in theory we would hope the offspring will have a good head (dad) a straight front (mum) good topline, angulation. in reality this hardly ever actually happens. some pups may look like dad, some like mum, and even worse some pups will have mums poor head and dads poor front. here like with horses it is luck of the draw. also with dogs, i have spent years studying the lines i want, but if im honest i havent spent time on the lines of neddies that appeal to me. because ive never had the opportunity to breed, only having one horse at a time, i never wanted to go a period without riding, but now i have no choice.

where would i look to find the most successful lines in RH and hacks?
like i said before i have all the time in the world, so im not going to rush in to anything

[ffynnoncadno]

with all the best bloodlines and conformation on both mare and stallion side,you can end up with an ugly,wonkey donkey.....and out of some of the worst put together parents you can have quality.....So I totally agree with halfpass and would say it boils down to luck and in the long run it works out so much cheaper to buy a good quality youngster than it is to breed one and another plus side is you have Choice

[Deleted]

I have been breeding ponies since I left school- I can assure you its not luck- its careful planning.

[holiday]

Totally agree with Cayberry, the mare has a massive input and I always find you see what the mare really and truely stamps into her foals once she has one. The luck comes that after all the careful planning and consideration you foal arrives in one piece and is healthy and sound!!!!

There is also nothing more rewarding than seeing your foals arrive and nothing more of a time waster than standing watching them for hours!!!!! (Im obviously not guilty of that - much!!!!! ;D)

[halfpass]

Feb 12, 2010 17:35:52 GMT cayberry said:

I have been breeding ponies since I left school- I can assure you its not luck- its careful planning.

And I have carried on from were my parents left off from hunters to my beloved welsh and I can assure you that a lot of luck is involved, our old mare had nine foals all by the same stallion 8 off which have been good and gone on to do well, 1 was outstanding, our own stallion has 3 full siblings all of which are nice ponies but he is the only one that has inherited the best parts from both parents, anybody who tells you that by crossing X with Y will give you a world beater is delusional, if it was that easy we would all be doing it,then you have how will the mare carry the foal, will she produce premature, will the foal be born with contracted tendons or any other deformities, all of needs to be added into the equation, half the fun of breeding is trying to breed that one elusive animal that has the perfect comformation and perfect movement and as yet that animal has not been bred

[Deleted]

Feb 12, 2010 18:50:03 GMT halfpass said:

Feb 12, 2010 17:35:52 GMT cayberry said:

I have been breeding ponies since I left school- I can assure you its not luck- its careful planning.

And I have carried on from were my parents left off from hunters to my beloved welsh and I can assure you that a lot of luck is involved, our old mare had nine foals all by the same stallion 8 off which have been good and gone on to do well, 1 was outstanding, our own stallion has 3 full siblings all of which are nice ponies but he is the only one that has inherited the best parts from both parents, anybody who tells you that by crossing X with Y will give you a world beater is delusional, if it was that easy we would all be doing it,then you have how will the mare carry the foal, will she produce premature, will the foal be born with contracted tendons or any other deformities, all of needs to be added into the equation, half the fun of breeding is trying to breed that one elusive animal that has the perfect comformation and perfect movement and as yet that animal has not been bred

Halfpass- How old do you think I am? - I have been amongst horses and ponies all my life- breeding - eventing- showing- judging - I breed at least 12 foals a year- having mares that have had 18 foals- and by same stallion- I am not some school girl! I find your comment very patronising. I have had my own stud for 30+ yrs.
The perfect animal will never be bred- I am fully aware of that! that is the fun.

[halfpass]

I did not mean to patronize you, but you seem to have missed the point, this lady who has started the thread is asking if she should buy a mare put her in foal and breed her perfect riding horse, and as I have already stated it does not always work that way, she may have to breed several foals to get the one she wants, trying different stallions to see what genetics match with that mare, you can study all the breeding in the world use the most successful stallion around and it still may not work, it's not like the native breeds that if you put a pure bred mare to a pure bred stallion you more or less get the same. There is a lot of luck involved, you are lucky if you hit the jackpot first go, there is luck involved if you have a live healthy foal, the biggest piece of luck is raising it to the age when it can be ridden that it has not lumps or bumps that preclude it from the show ring, As I have said before there are so many good young horses out there looking for good showing/competition homes why add to the over population of horses in this country and take the risk of breeding.

[kayjayem]

Halfpass I couldn't agree more! To breed a riding horse/hack to a "type" is a very different kettle of fish to breeding a pure bred anything where bloodlines are more defined. If I were in the original poster's position I would shop around for the best foal I could afford and enjoy the transformation from to nice foal to top show horse. No matter how much you research bloodlines if you are breeding to a type as apposed to a pure breed you are in the lap of the gods

[tanya1989]

i have taken your comments on board, and really think that breedind probably isnt the answer for me. ok, next question :-) ...
how do i go about looking for a top quality foal. i know the correct conformation for a mature animal, but i dont think i am capable enough if spotting foal potential. any advice?

[Deleted]

I would seek the advice of knowledgeable proven winning breeders of the type of animal you want- won't name names on here- but can pm you who I would contact for advice.

[halfpass]

Now that is a whole new can of worms, the only advise I would give you is look at both parents, if you can look at other offspring at different ages go to shows were they have youngstock classes look to see what the judges are putting up, but most important take someone with you who's opinion and judgment you trust and respect. Happy hunting I hope you find the horse of your dreams.

[kayjayem]

to be honest you obviously know what you like so I would trust my own judgement. Conformation is conformation regardless of age! If you see something you really like go for it - if you have reservations don't! I'm into ponies but saw a hunter foal at a local show which to me had star quality! I told a friend and she bought it and eventually sold it to Vin Toulson and he had a fantastic career(HOYS etc). Similarly I went to see a 3yr old hunter last year which wasn't quite good enough, they had a colt foal which I loved but couldn't do with a colt at the time - guess what he was sold and qualified Cuddy this year - ah well at least I have taste!!

[kayjayem]

That's what I'm getting at OB, at least if you are buying you can see what you are getting! If you are breeding, with all the knowledge in the world and the best parentage, you get what you are given. The 2 hunters I refer to in my recent post I doubt I would ever have bred in a milllion years and I would be responsible for the not quite good enoughs I had bred in the meantime! I breed pure bred(welsh B's) and am constantly striving for "the" perfect pony but to be honest there isn't such a thing, we aim for the nearest we can get, but I also breed for temperament which is as important as conformation(IMO) as if it's not going to be world beater it has to be able to do a job.

[horseyll81]

A few weeks ago, I would have said go for it and enjoy the experience with the hope that you get what you wanted at the end....................now........I'll say, find a nice foal you like, if it is happy and healthy and what you wanted, you won't be disappointed...there are alot to choose from. My mare lost her foal yesterday morning, it died whilst being born. It is a gut wrenching scenario and enough to put you off breeding altogether. I am heartbroken.....I wouldn't wish this upon anyone. good luck with whatever you choose to do :-)

[anotherdeal1]

im so sorry to hear that, i too lost twins a few weeks ago and it really is heartbreaking, so there id definately a lot of luck involved i did everything by the book had my mare scanned three times etc and i had such bad luck. Good luck whatever you choose to do x