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Post by pennypoo on Mar 7, 2010 14:51:33 GMT
my 17hh horse keeps leaning on my hands and no matter what i do he wont come off them any ideas?
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Mar 7, 2010 14:54:22 GMT
You need to ride the back end to get the forehand to lighten. Plenty of transitions, half halts, serpentines, keep it varied so he has to concentrate and think. What bit are you using?
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Post by pennypoo on Mar 7, 2010 18:02:21 GMT
he's only in a snaffle he's schooled quite well but just leans!!!!! grrrr he's 6yrs old too
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Post by sageandonion on Mar 7, 2010 18:11:53 GMT
MM is right, but I have to say you have my sympathy with such a very big horse. If you have been riding to an outline, forget it, he has learned to just put his head down and let you carry his head and front for him. If it is safe to do so, try giving the rein to him and, frankly, ride like you don't know how to, if he pokes his nose, good, so long as he is not bearing down. The idea is to MAKE him carry himself. Lunge without any side reins at all, transitions, spiral leg yield in and out and poles/small jumps.
If he is well schooled, do you mean he knows his lateral movements and his counter canter, medium trot, etc., because it is really difficult for him to lean on you if he is doing these movements correctly. Or do you mean he puts his head down and appears round to others. Unfortunately he is not working through from behind and simply creating an illusion (which won't fool a BD judge) so you will have to suffer him not looking or feeling very nice for a while and backtrack on his education.
If you don't have an instructor get one asap or change your instructor if the current one has not been addressing this. I suggest this because this is one big horse who at six is at such an important stage of learning. He will quite happily learn things the wrong way if it is easy for him.
This maybe a situation where a different bit for a while is helpful. I don't like anything other than a snaffle really but, at the end of the day, if you are small and he is big, you might have to even up the odds for a short time. You instructor will be the one to advise.
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Post by lulah on Mar 8, 2010 9:49:04 GMT
a loose ring snaffle may work?
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Post by pennypoo on Mar 8, 2010 20:04:55 GMT
he is in a loose ring snaffle now lulah xx
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Post by pennypoo on Mar 8, 2010 20:09:34 GMT
thanks sageandonion yes i'm currently looking fo a new instructor!!!!!! he's in a lose ring snaffle now. not strong at all!!!. he's been schooled by myself 5ft 4 and then schooled by event rider whos 6ft 1 he never used to lean on me everything done and checked new saddle/back/teeth etc grrrrrrr also stopped lunging him in side reins fed up nice new instructor would be great xx
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Post by donkeydo on Mar 8, 2010 21:02:49 GMT
Where abouts are you pennypoo?
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Post by sageandonion on Mar 8, 2010 21:22:09 GMT
Maybe MM or sarahp might advise as to whether a short use of a waterford might be appropriate in this instance.
Never used one myself, fortunately not needed to. (Have experienced the problem you have now, but with a 15h which is a different kettle of fish and that one responded beautifully to schooling and suppling).
Just that with your boy being a strapping lad, you might need a bit of help so long as you have very good hands and it would be a short term thing to get you over this issue before it becomes his confirmed way of going.
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Post by apple123 on Mar 9, 2010 11:08:40 GMT
Whilst this is very much a current training issue, I would recommend having a look at the neue schule bit range. I had a similar problem as you last year with my young horse but he is only 15h and much easier to keep together but I popped him in the Neue Schule Team up and it has made the world of difference.
The Neue Schule Team up is a loose ring snaffle with a lozenge, all of the dressage horses on our yard are worked in them. I have never used a waterford because I think that they are mainly used as a quick fix.
Think of your horses back end as the plug switch and the front end as the light - you need to flick the switch to get the light to work...I am completely baffling but get his hocks right underneath him, lots of walk-trot transitions with short spurts in either pace, use spiralling circles and 8-10mtr circles. Analyse your position - are you looking up and in front of you carrying your hands with thumbs pointing forwards? Try some very very light vibrations down the rein to relax his poll. Are you sitting with a nice line from your head to your shoulders and through to your hip and lower leg with relaxed shoulders? These are all things I have been taught to think about more...they are all small adjustments which have very effective results
Modified to add more
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Mar 9, 2010 11:13:35 GMT
Whilst a change of bit would probably help things along, I don't think it would solve the problem as a whole, it would need to be used alongside appropriate schooling exercises. Sometimes it can be quite hard to go back to a snaffle once you have switched to something else.
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Mar 9, 2010 12:08:27 GMT
Seconded! We used Waterfords for two to provide extra brakes in particular exciting situations that wouldn't tolerate a curb of any sort, not when trying to school them out of a problem. They do of course make it very difficult, if not impossible, for the horse to pull back at you, but that's not really the point here. I have no experience of using them in a schooling situation, you would need to ask an experienced instructor which I'm not! I was always taught not to pull back on a horse that is leaning on your hands, he needs to learn to carry himself, as S&O says above. Daughter is schooling her 17hh out of curling up and tending to go in a false outline without the need for any stronger bits but each situation is different and we on here don't know your individual horse.
I'm getting old and very bah humbug, but so often people seem to think a change of bit is all that's needed to sort what is basically a schooling problem (not complaining at you S&O, just making a general point), second only to checking teeth and back - which of course is important but not always the root of a problem!
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Post by lexy on Mar 9, 2010 21:04:06 GMT
"Daughter is schooling her 17hh out of curling up and tending to go in a false outline without the need for any stronger bits but each situation is different and we on here don't know your individual horse."
Actually said daughter did change bit for her 17hh horse - but not a stronger one, but milder one in the end! He is now in a happy mouth straight bar, and we think he may have been curling up as evasion to the bit. He was in a double jointed snaffle, but after looking in his mouth my dressage trainer thought a straight bar might be better as he has not got much room in his mouth. So it may have been that the joint was uncomfortable for him.
Although just to emphasis as said above by others, any bit change is never q "quick fix" and we have already been working a lot on getting him more through from behind both with in hand lateral work as well as ridden transitions and lateral work. Also exercises like doing "amost passage" trot to get horse lighter on toes and working through and then forward into working trot again.
Good luck with your horse!
Lexy
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