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Post by whyw on Jun 4, 2010 10:19:46 GMT
OK i know i said i would not comment again but this now beggars belief, so am now going to show my over height doped pony under my sister and her co judge who i slept with last night and who i have a business partnership and who bred the pony and when the bsps say naughty i will just say i am a novice owner and do not know any better, my pony will then go to the HOYS where it will win as the judge is my husband and the co judge my mother !!!! O.M.G what a can of worms the BSPS has opened
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Post by jasper1 on Jun 4, 2010 10:29:07 GMT
OK i know i said i would not comment again but this now beggars belief, so am now going to show my over height doped pony under my sister and her co judge who i slept with last night and who i have a business partnership and who bred the pony and when the bsps say naughty i will just say i am a novice owner and do not know any better, my pony will then go to the HOYS where it will win as the judge is my husband and the co judge my mother !!!! O.M.G what a can of worms the BSPS has opened Funny, but about right!
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Post by Greeneyes on Jun 4, 2010 11:41:24 GMT
Have nothing to do with Pretty Polly (thank goodness) but as an observer, yes rules are rules BUT is it not just possible that this was a genuine mistake and maybe the BSPS have taken a view that their decision is to encourage new members rather than discourage, and the other pony I believed has been given a ticket so as bundle says a 'win/win'. Just an observation but it seems to me that competing in PP classes is like having BIG BROTHER watching your every move, was your pony ever touched by a producer; held in the ring by someone else or heaven forbid in a field owned by one! As for someone who can immediately reply with the fact that someone once competed at the BSPS in champs in 2007 I am in awe! I can't remember who competed last week let alone 3 years ago! Is it any wonder that people don't want to join affiliated showing when there is so much back biting and I happen to think these classes bring out the worst in people.
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Post by sageandonion on Jun 4, 2010 12:31:20 GMT
People do make mistakes and this would have died a death if BSPS just pointed out the mistake to the novice owner and explained why the placing is void. Simultaneously advising the novice owner (who of course had the foresight to purchase from a producer for lots of money as novices do) to look at the rules of the classes before entering.
Maybe we should have allowed all our Politicians to keep the expenses they wangled because actually they didn't know either.
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Post by greeneyes on Jun 4, 2010 13:25:11 GMT
So that is fact is it? Novice owners purchased from producer for lots of money? Producer advised they could do class? From my understanding answer is No. alleged Producer was not involved at all just brought pony in from field to show to potential purchaser. So glad you are so well informed sage and onion.
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Post by well informed on Jun 4, 2010 14:08:54 GMT
well ,green eyes, EVEN IF we take the owners at face value as s&O says once everyone involved was made aware by bsps the ticket should not stand. Is it certain that the pony is NOT competing at RI ?
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Post by sageandonion on Jun 4, 2010 18:34:00 GMT
Greeneyes, you have totally misconstrued my post. However, I am not about to get into a personal disagreement about this as it rather ruins the thread. Perhaps you have something you would like to add to the subject matter in perhaps a more constructive way.
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Post by How Novice on Jun 4, 2010 20:44:55 GMT
So that is fact is it? Novice owners purchased from producer for lots of money? Producer advised they could do class? From my understanding answer is No. alleged Producer was not involved at all just brought pony in from field to show to potential purchaser. So glad you are so well informed sage and onion. As I said before, if they were winning at the champs in 2007 how are they still novice? Surely they have had at least 3 years to acquaint themselves with the rules. If after all this time they can still play the "we didn't know" card BSPS may as well rip up the rule book and just rely on owners integrity and discretion to play by the rules. May be the end of true home produced classes but you would be able to see people for what they are and be a real judge of character and honesty which does seem sadly lacking.
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Post by minkara on Jun 4, 2010 21:22:17 GMT
i think the secretary of the area show has done an excellent job, trying to put everything right, - HOWEVER, i really think everyone on here should contact both the RIHS and the BSPS if they feel strongly that a correct decision should be reached. I believe that rules are rules , and should be kept to, but nothing will be resolved by churning the facts round and round on an internet site. Vote with your feet and complain to the relevant people, maybe, that way, the correct result will be reached
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Post by donkeydo on Jun 4, 2010 23:43:25 GMT
God after this thread who would want to compete in home produced classes!!! ;-) who would compete at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by ballsup on Jun 5, 2010 4:02:44 GMT
i think the secretary of the area show has done an excellent job, trying to put everything right, - HOWEVER, i really think everyone on here should contact both the RIHS and the BSPS if they feel strongly that a correct decision should be reached. I believe that rules are rules , and should be kept to, but nothing will be resolved by churning the facts round and round on an internet site. Vote with your feet and complain to the relevant people, maybe, that way, the correct result will be reached I have!, got told to go through my area, which i will. Has anybody else had the same response?
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Post by bemused on Jun 5, 2010 6:02:28 GMT
Will raise it at my area meeting on Tuesday and see what happens
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Post by bundle on Jun 5, 2010 8:36:14 GMT
Thank you for your comments about the excellent job I may or may not have done with this. It does seem that there is one rule for one and one for another - I sent in a letter to object when Adam Wimborne won the Home Produced Championship back in 2005 I think it was and was told that he didn't have any horses at the time. They had "asked him" - Jo Shaw won a Home Produced Championship only a couple of years ago while at the same time advertising on the notice board at the champs for ponies - she listed ones she had already produced! I didn't see any of this type of witch hunt going on then. The people bought a pony out of a field - the person does not produce ponies for the ring or at least hasn't this year and did nothing at all with it. The owner is an amateur who bought the pony in good faith believing it could do PP. The child has been keen to compete for some time I believe but the parents were not. She was given a ride in 2007 by a neighbour just to make her happy. I would be surprised if these people last in showing for more than this season - as some posts above say - who would want to really. I think the BSPS have done the right thing in not allowing her to compete in PP classes for the rest of the year and RI have done the right thing in allowing her her place at Hickstead. I said before it seems like a win-win situation to me but don't worry all the professionals will continue to do as they like regardless!
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Post by chloesmum on Jun 5, 2010 8:42:37 GMT
Well said bundle -if there was a karma system left I would give you one for a sane and sensible reply!
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Post by bemused on Jun 5, 2010 9:45:12 GMT
So - just to clarify, the family will not be doing any more HP classes (which they dont need to do as they have already qualified??!), BUT WILL be doing the HP class at Hickstead?
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Post by sageandonion on Jun 5, 2010 11:21:30 GMT
bundle, I can see that you truly think the right thing has been done. But the rules have been broken, how can that be right? Truly this is a nonsense and extremely damaging for BSPS if they cannot follow their own rules. Rules have to be black and white, start making exceptions and there is no point in having rules.
You surely cannot allow these people to keep the qualification. If you are determined that they should, what justification can you give to your members? No explanation is sufficient, rules have been broken full stop.
This is one amazing pony, bought untried out of a field this year by novice owners (novices do not normally buy like this). If novices are stupid enough to buy untried from a field and then in the same early part of the year stand top of a class, they were also born in the saddle. So that excuse (and it is an excuse not a reason) does not wash with me.
However, we should not be arguing the whys, that is irrelevant. Rules have been broken and you are supporting the breaking of your own rules.
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Post by novice on Jun 5, 2010 14:24:26 GMT
they probably have come from another dicipline, which would make them novice to showing, it does not neccessarily mean they have never owned a horse before.
It seems a bit mean to carry on about this as though it is the owners fault, if any blame lies it is clearly with the bsps for not being decisive enough.
At the end of the day a child rides this pony
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Post by sageandonion on Jun 5, 2010 16:49:21 GMT
Absolutely no-one has suggested any fault lies with the owners or the riders of the pony and it makes no difference whatsoever whether it is a child, male or female riding. Let's not also forget all the children whose parents are working within the rules.
The questioning relates to those that are trusted to make and, where necessary, enforce the rules.
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Post by jasper1 on Jun 5, 2010 17:01:20 GMT
It is very very tough for the child involved, but what about the poor child who quaified rihs m&m whp at area 7 , only to find she didnt have her card in her new jacket pocket! But the rules where the rules and she lost her ticket. Children sometimes do have to be told no sometimes , and it is very very tough for them. p.s. bundle I do think that you have gone above and beyond on this matter! We do need people like you.
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Post by denoviced on Jun 5, 2010 17:20:10 GMT
All competitors of this class had to be paid up BSPS members. Members have an obligation to familiarise themselves with the rules of the society to which they have joined. This was a BSPS area show, competitors in this class also had every right to expect they were be judged fairly and equally, afterall it was being judged 'UNDER BSPS RULES', right?
Competitors should at the very least demand a refund of their entry fee
This situation is a complete farce !
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Post by not again on Jun 6, 2010 9:27:49 GMT
Thank you for your comments about the excellent job I may or may not have done with this. It does seem that there is one rule for one and one for another - I sent in a letter to object when Adam Wimborne won the Home Produced Championship back in 2005 I think it was and was told that he didn't have any horses at the time. They had "asked him" - Jo Shaw won a Home Produced Championship only a couple of years ago while at the same time advertising on the notice board at the champs for ponies - she listed ones she had already produced! I didn't see any of this type of witch hunt going on then. you're wasting your time there bundle - Adam Winbourne seems to have a different rule book to everyone else! The people bought a pony out of a field - the person does not produce ponies for the ring or at least hasn't this year and did nothing at all with it. The owner is an amateur who bought the pony in good faith believing it could do PP. The child has been keen to compete for some time I believe but the parents were not. She was given a ride in 2007 by a neighbour just to make her happy. I would be surprised if these people last in showing for more than this season - as some posts above say - who would want to really. I think the BSPS have done the right thing in not allowing her to compete in PP classes for the rest of the year and RI have done the right thing in allowing her her place at Hickstead. I said before it seems like a win-win situation to me but don't worry all the professionals will continue to do as they like regardless! you are wasting your time there bundle - Adam Winbourne has a different rule book to everyone else
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Post by totally disgusted on Jun 9, 2010 10:12:35 GMT
I think this is totally disgusting.
There has been a bending of the rules for one pony, why this pony ? whats so special about this pony ?
Other ponies have been disqualified for less.
If you are or ever have been a member of the BSPS you will have had sight of the rule book there fore you are aware of the rules contained with in - with no exception.
All members are bound by these rules , new members and old members alike.
It is not acceptable to brake rules and then plead ignorance. UNDER no circumstances should this be allowed.
All plaited ponies are to compete under BSPS rules at the RIHS, the BSPS rules are clear that the 1st of Jan is the cut off.
It has made a mockery of the BSPS and its rule keepers.
It is beyond reasonable doubt that a person would buy a pony from a producer and claim not to be aware that this would make them ineligible to compete as home produced.
Regardless of this pony being in field or stable at the producers is neither here nor there, it was obviously not roughed off and schooled as it very quickly was out competing and subsequently placed and qualified. A roughed off pony that had been turned away and not schooled etc would not be able to achieve this.
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Post by ivansmum on Jun 9, 2010 11:12:04 GMT
In 2007 we were 2nd at Stafford County in the BSPS B&C Ridden RI, and on the day the winner got the ticket. A few weeks later we received a letter from the BSPS stating that the winner had been disqualified and we had the RI ticket, the BSPS would not disclose the nature of the disqualification but I believe it may be that the winner was not a member, and hence had broken the rules. Well done BSPS for putting the issue correct and alowing us the ticket, but shame on Stafford County as the winner went on to be Champion and we never got so much as a sorry never mind the winners trophy.
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omg
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by omg on Jun 9, 2010 12:17:13 GMT
Well i don't feel sorry for anyone, Well ok the person who was 2nd , i am home produced and have been since starting showing at this level and i feel that people who don't live by the rules are making it more and more difficult for all of us that do. If you are not sure of the rules then ring and check before entering, i have done so in the past and BSPS have always given me clear advise. It is hard enough to compete at this level with out all this.
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Post by bundle on Jun 10, 2010 5:56:10 GMT
Well i don't feel sorry for anyone, Well ok the person who was 2nd , For the last time (I promise) - no-one has missed out on a ticket. The second pony was also given a qualification by RI. ]
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Post by incorrect Bundle on Jun 10, 2010 8:34:38 GMT
NO Bundle. Pocahuntas was2nd at your show and qualified, Chinook Paprika was 3rd at our show and SHOULD have got the ticket but went on to win at area 6 therefore qualified there, the 2nd placed pony at area6 kicked up a stink and has been given a ticket aswell. BSPS twisting the rules to suit themselves, but as long as everyones happy that must make it okay?
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Post by totally disgusted on Jun 10, 2010 8:54:08 GMT
This is beyond belief.
What a farse, how appalling to be a member of BSPS and be subjected to this going's on.
All the previously disqualified ponies will now naturally appeal and no doubt get extra tickets !!!!
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Post by Woe on Jun 10, 2010 12:41:20 GMT
At the Dorset & Wilts BSPS show a rider wore her Patey hat with no strap in the RI class breaking the hat rule and kept her ticket because the show secretary wouldn't get involved. Someone in 2nd surely missed out on their RIHS place there? ok for some and not for others.
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Post by Woe on Jun 10, 2010 12:43:04 GMT
At the Dorset & Wilts BSPS show a rider wore her Patey hat with no strap in the RI class breaking the hat rule and kept her ticket because the show secretary wouldn't get involved. Someone in 2nd surely missed out on their RIHS place there? ok for some and not for others. BSPS RIHS Part Bred Arab qualifier
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Post by confuseddotcom on Jun 10, 2010 14:22:12 GMT
after reading this thread what i do not understand is why the BSPS officers do not come on here and make a statement -- like Howard does from the JMB , we all know the head high ones of the BSPS do read this site, would this not make sense in rather the poor chairperson of Area 8 replying, personally i think it is awful that the rules have bben broken and yes it would be awful for the child , but rules are rules so do we now respect the rule book or what? so come on BSPS speak to your members !
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