BSPS M&M WHP Fence Heights

[whp wonderer]

Does anyone know if it is true that the fence heights for large M&M workers are to be lowered and small workers raised?

If it is true, when will the new ruling start? Also what are the new heights?

Thanks

[fjudge]

Hadn't heard that myself! But would be interested to know if it is so?

[haveheard]

BSPS, PUK have raised the small section of the Workers by 5cm. across the board. NPS have not, due to the Shetlands, Exmoors being against any further increase. Only the NPS listen to the M&M breed societies, the other societies are not interested in the breed societies.

[girly]

A BSPS course builder told us the same last week. Will come into force when the new rules come out so will apply to summer season and on.

[fjudge]

Thanks guys

[c]

I think it's such a pity that there can't be a 4th class for Highlands, Dales and Fells set at the same height as the under 138cm class and with not too big spreads as IMO I think many of the mentioned breeds struggle to cope with the biggest height jumps.
I think it would encourage more to have a go and I hate seeing ponies crashing through jumps, hurting themselves and losing their confidence especially when they really want to please.

There are obviously exceptions eg Trowan Callan and last year's Fell HOYS champion who could jump any course

[to be honest]

To be honest, a lot of D's struggle with the bigger height too. It seems to be the connies that are the ones that are bred to jump those heights. I appreciate that there are more cobs out there that can make the height than,say, dales but they still struggle. We have had to change the type of D we buy to be slightly lighter and make the HOYS tracks.

I would have suggested that heights are lowerd by 3" for the large height but for the HOYS and RIHS qualifiers, they are the current height. Then it's your choice whether you want to do them. There are getting so many qualifiers out there, they are hard to avoid. It's got to be testing at that level. I would probably split out the D's, Connies and New Forest too. Having an extra section for the proper hairies at 3" lower even at HOYS qualifiers. It's a shame not to see more of them at the Champs.

Only my opinion!

[welshie]

Are you having a laugh, welsh cobs should be able to jump fences far higher than 3'3/6 whatever it is. Mine is a small cob (14.1) annd is happily jumping 4' tracks which are BSJA, and they are WIDE.
Agree with the haries, sometimes they may lack the natural ability to jump such heights.

[Elmere]

God my highland stallions only 13.3hh and he can jump 4ft with a massive spread, maybe bigger but i'm not gutsy enough to do that big as he gallops over them, which is why i don't do workers as he can't make the bends lol

[C]

Over 138cm Classes:
I think there are lots of ponies who can jump that height and spread for individual jumps, but putting it together for a whole course with different-striding doubles, related distances, corners, offset angles and tricky fillers can be beyond many of them at the height required - especially the hairies.
I hate to see well-schooled well-ridden brave ponies jumping in good style, but not being able to make distances or spreads, crashing through jumps, then starting to back-off jumps ,thus making them more likely to hurt themselves until they either fall or stop jumping.

It's also true that some individuals of large breeds make it look really easy and could jump far bigger courses, but rarely among the hairies.
I do think lighter types of cobs and other breeds too cope better but then you get the power-house bouncy types and the big scopey ponies too - some of the good jumping connies tend to be a bit horsy IMO.
I think it's probably more difficult for cobs than connies or NFs because of the length of their stride and their type of action, plus their sheer power can get channelled in the wrong direction.IMO!

[Welshie]

Don't think I am laughing Welshie no. Having owned 10 cobs so far, only 2 have been able to make the big fences. And i agree with C that jumping one fence is very different to putting a course together.

The 2 that are absolutely excellent jumpers, do not have the looks that I would really wish for but we bought them specifically to jump. Don't get me wrong I am sure there are lots of cobs out there that jump huge fences but the ones that look decent enough to compete at HOYS level are not so common!

And don't get me wrong, the cob I bought to jump will jump the HOYS tracks with ease so I don't want the height of them to come down as that's why I bought him!

Can't we forget about the exceptions as there will always be them. For example the fell that won HOYS last year- telescopic legs!

[To be honest]

Well done Welshie then to have an exception.

Not saying it's not possible to find one! Very easy to find if you don't care what it looks like! Not so easy when you want a nice chunky cob that could do well in ridden classes too!

[confirmed]

Email from BSPS today confirmed small section will be raised but large remains the same - NOT lowered.

[X BSPS Shetland]

The BSPS have been extremely unfair to small ponies. if they had bothered to look at the heights of ponies qualifying for both HOYS and RIHS they would see how they were bringing about a class almost exclusively for 122cm ponies. Perhaps they should have considered adding a section and having up to 118, 128, 138 and the biggies or making the 122cm ponies who have now proven that they can jump bigger than the rest go into the 138 section and have the small section as UNDER 122cm.
Come on tiddlers what are your views on this. Have heard that really only one loud voice on the BSPS wanted this ridiculous new rule. Were they were upset by the NPS getting RIHS? from the outside it looks a good idea for a show of that calibre offereing classes to a range of societies and not allowing any of them to dominate proceedings. Glad the course at RIHS will let all the breeds and small ponies have a chance of winning and hope that next year's judges take the height of ponies into consideration at qualifiers. Give us shetlands a chance. There'll be more of us trying next year and we'd like to see fair play. There is ow no point in us joinging the BSPS.

[RI course]

Dear x shetland. I totally agree with all you have to say but for different reasons. the height needs to stay small for a) small ponies but also b) for kiddies confidence. Whilst sme kiddies can jump bigger fences some kiddies who are out of m&m nursery still want small fences which is why they often stay on their smal breeds pony longer.
I dont want to dampen your thoughts shetland but even if you manage to qualify for the RIHS at a small track, when you get to the RI i prsonally think a shetland would struggle to get round there. The track this year was a) big - minimum of 2'3" and b) very testing. The final bullfinch was huge and i dont think even the bravest shetland would be able to have got over that fence.
I think we need to get a smaller class just for shetlands - it would be great to watch!!

[tiny]

Shetlands can jump bullfinches but don't need a class of their own. The fun is competing against other breeds and beating them! We won't bother to join BSPS or PUK next year as we don't agree with the height issue. It is a shame Horse of the Year and Balanced Horse feeds have been persuaded to exclude small ponies. Balanced always come across as being in favour of competition for all ponies so it's surprising that they let this happen.
x BSPS Shetland's idea of putting the 122cm ponies in the next height is great - many of them are probably bigger anyway!
Great Top Spec have stuck with fair play for all breeds.

[pole]

Who was it at BSPS wanted the heights changed and why?
Anyone know? Surprised they were bothered natives. perhaps they're not bothered about shetlands.

[girly]

I would imagine that the ason that the height of the fence are going up becouse they are so many more clear rounds in the small section compared to the other section. It then might as well be another flat class.

[HD]

I think the idea of puting the 122cm ponies into the next class is a very good idea. I've looked at a lot of schedules and indeed these ponies are dominating the small section. Afew smaller ones like the Scuse's pony are doing well but they are the exception.

[girly]

If you move the 122cm up to the next class will you than want the 121.5cm and then 121cm moved until you reach your ponies height or starting winning. Might as well go the whole hog and move all the ponies at the top end of the height for what ever class they are in to the next height up.

The class used to be for 128cm and before that was classified by breed so the height range was even greater.

[whpchange]

What so 122cms ponies would have to jump the same height as 138cms, that makes no sense whatever!!
If you were able to do more classes surely doing a 11.2 and below class and then a 12.2 class and then the rest as the same would be better.
I don't think there is much of an issue with the middle or larger heights except 12.2's are at a disadvantage but surely the idea of whp is that the pony came jump - if it's not capable should it really be doing whp?

[Guestless]

whpchange said:

What so 122cms ponies would have to jump the same height as 138cms, that makes no sense whatever!!

Makes as much sense as the 139cms ponies having to jump the same height at 158cms! I think it is time the height classifications were looked at across the board to try to even the odds. Maybe going back to breed groupings (perhaps splitting the small and large NFs) would be more sensible.

[NF]

Some of the rule makers aren't happy about New Forests being able to compete in each height class.

[jump]

The fences in the Top Spec did not exceed the height or width of the nps rule book. As for the NF the breed society are pushing to allow their ponies in 3 sections of the Junior Ridden. What about the Shetlands they only get one chance.

[girly]

Even if the NFs could compete in 3 sections surely an individual pony could only contest one section so what difference would it make.

[Bb]

If the BSPS has so many jumps why can't they accommodate tracks for the smaller ponies. They train their course builders and we all know that a few water fences can sort out all the heights. What was the objective in putting up the fences?

BSPS should make members decide whether to show in WHP or Heritage WHP at the start of each season.

[Welsh Cob Rider]

There are plenty of cobs more than capable of jumping 3'3" !! And after all, the open classes are meant to be a test and sort out the ones who can jump from the ones that cant.

I used to jump Kentchurch Whisper around 3'6" with ease - and she also went to Olympia under saddle, won the Royal Welsh, and was succesful in hand before her ridden career. So it is possible to have a cob that jumps AND has 'the looks'. As well as WH, we also did SJ & ODE. She was only 14.1hh, but definitely a little power house.

The problems can come not so much with whether a cob is heavy or light - but the movement. If a welsh cob has a lot of knee action and trails its hocks, then it will find it very hard to jump from that type of pace.

Have you not seen the heights the BSJA ponies jump anyway ?! Puts our WH courses to shame I can tell you ....

[kindof*gree]

I used to jump JA ponies as a child, so agree M&M WHP do not compare in size. However, my ponies were 'heinz 50 whatnot' ponies. The difficulty, I believe, is getting a registered breed of pony with not only the scope and bravery to jump the technical courses, but also having correct movement, freedom of action and being true to type. Combining them all, I feel, is a very difficult combination!
Good luck to anyone who has found the perfect worker!!

[Work Lurker]

welsh cob rider commented on the height of the courses BSJA ponies jump........have you seen the height of the BSJA ponies???LOL!!

[JadeCannon]

I think the middle & upper height sections are fine, the ponies in these height sections should be able to jump these fences perfectly easily. If your horse is struggling, practice more or change your chosen career! The courses are meant to be difficult - they are qualifiers after all!
In comparison to plaiteds M&M fence heights are tiny!

Agree that the heights are quite discriminating against shetlands though.