1001 questions from a first timer

[sahsie]

i know i could look up all the answers to these questions - but to be honest (and a little lazy) i thought i would ask you guys first!

situation is that i have a rising 3 year old arab x appoloosa colt fully reg etc and before i have him cut i thought "what the hell life is for living, enjoy your horses, try something new- use him on your mares" both have foaled before they came to me and foaled easily, both are in perfectly good health, both lovely temperaments and good conformation......... i dont think i am fully prepared for the risks or the upset if something goes wrong - but i dont think anyone can say that until it happens! My sister has her name down for both foals so also not breeding anthing that (if arrives safely) will be unwanted. He is randy as hell, i introduced them over the fence, then popped him in there.......

So my questions are:

1) on day 1 my welshie sec C was in season - she showed him what to do....... he mastered climbing on BUT sideways despite her best efforts i didnt see anything "connect" SOOOO is it likely he has been practicing at night or would he have given up?

2) after the first couple of days my french trotter decided he was a bad influence on my welshie so herded her away from him at every given opportunity.............. i took welshie away today to give the others a bit of bonding time.... was that the right thing to do?

3) After taking welshie away my colt and trotter were getting on famously - she has now come into season..... is it likely that he will try his luck given that he got a telling off the last time he went to my welshie? they were nibbling eachother very nicely this evening!

4) if i now put welshie back am i likely to cause upsets in the dynamics? After how many days should i be looking at him covering her again? (if he managed the right way !)

5) Am i right in thinking that ideally given the circumstances i should try to get him to cover in hand so that he"gets the idea"? if so any tips as he is a bit of a handful ...... another of my reasons for putting him out with the sensible girls anyway ...... manners and social ettiquette lessons!

6) once they are no longer in season - would i be wise to take him out and back to my stallion paddock or is it perfectly safe to leave him in there for a while?

7) i also have a brittish spotted stallion that to my knowledge has never covered........ would i be really stupid to put welshie in with him too?? or wait and see if she comes into season next time?

8) when do most people have them scanned? i have heard many dont bother BUT i would like one at least to rule out the twins probs

9) think this is the last one - neither of my2 boys are registered as stallions...... although both reg with their breed societies....... will this have an impact on the registration of any foals? or is itthat if they are mine they do not need to be licensed?

really sorry for all that - any other tips most gratefully received!
p.s i dont even know if my man is fertile...... what are the chances aged 2?

[horseyll81]

Hi sashie,
What an essay??!!! I can't help with all the questions but I can say that there is every chance your boy will be fertile at 2, rising 3.
I would not put your spotted stallion on the welsh if she has been running with the arabx as if she has taken to him, you won't be able to guarantee the sire.
If welshie is not in foal to arab x (you'll have to see if she comes back in) then put her in a separate paddock with the spotted if thats what you want to use, and personally I would cover in hand.
I would leave the stallion in with the mares as it will be easier to tell if they come back in to season that way.
Most scanning is done from 16 days after covering.
I'm not sure why you would need to breed so many, especially as you will have trouble registering with any respective breed society, but good luck in your decisions and let us know how you get on.

[owl]

You cannot register your foals if they are sired by an unlicensed stallion unless the mare is registered with a society then you could register the offspring as a partbred.
To be honest- there are so many people who breed like this- it is very frightening- I hope you do keep the offspring- otherwise they will probably end up with the rest of the unwanteds. It is really asking for trouble just putting a colt out with mares with no experience- what if he gets out? causes injury? all could happen- its not as easy as you seem to think.

[brindlerainbow]

I fully agree with overbent im afraid. You have admitted that you are not fully prepared for the risks involved in breeding. When choosing a stallion to put to a mare a lot of thought needs to go into wether they will be a good match eg will his conformation,movement,attitude, temperament and soundness compliment the mares!!! I know you say the mares have bred before so know whats whats but I think putting a young colt out and just letting it cover with no supervision could be very dangerous. In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, I think its best to cover in hand with help/supervision until he knows what he is doing as there is a big risk of injury.If your sister wants a couple of foals it would probably be best buying from a breeder with registered stock and licensed stallions.There is so much indescriminate breeding going on and thats why the markets are flooded with poor quality animals that will end up eventually on a dinner plate

[sageandonion]

Sorry to answer questions with a question, but are you intending keeping the offspring? very little chance of rehoming a poorly bred animal.

[sahsie]

thanks to those who offered encouragement - perhaps my honesty did offend some - but i am also sure that there are many people who breed for exactly the same reasons as me - or worse still purely for profit! i am taking on board all constructive advice so far ...... my mares are both registered and fully papered, my colt is fully reg and papered ....... i dont think i made that clear x

[emma3870]

they can be fully registered but still need a licence (which means a DNA test on stallion) for registering as known parentage.

I have just had my colt gelded. he has fab breeding but I don't think he is big enough to warrant standing as a stallion and hasn't got the show record behind him. although I want to breed I intend using a proven stallion from a well known stud to match the good breeding of my mare.

not knocking you but what if your sisters circumstances change and she can't have the foals? too many right now are being sold for pennies to the meat man. could you cope with that.

agree with what the positive poster said about covering in hand and scanning. good luck whatever your decision but don't just do it because foals are lovely.

[sahsie]

thanks emma, constructive advice again - point taken about my sister i am REALLY fortunate (wont make excuses - we worked bloody hard to get it) to have a lovely farm with plenty of room and first class facilities to accommodate an awful lot more horses than i have so they could stay with me anyway - even as i write i was thinking that i dont know if i could part with them! i honestly dont think 2 is excessive. Foals are indeed lovely but the trouble they get themselves into isnt always- i have bought and still have my previous foals so am well aware of the mischief and perils !

As for the show record - i really dont think that in my particular situation that applies, i dont show them i just enjoy them........ i am sure you are not one of them and this is definately not intended to be aimed at anyone at all BUT it really makes me laugh when people put so much emphasis on what "other people" think of their horses - i find it all so bit*hy and clicky i havent got time for it - my high profile career really satisfied me and got me what i have now - i dont need to use my horses for praise or notoriety .......i love mine and thats all that matters. I am just hoping my lad and ladies may throw something unusual or pretty but more importantly healthy.

[teddydog]

or worse still purely for profit!

Can you tell me why this comment. I find this an insult to professional breeders like myself who has only fully licenced stallions with full pedigrees and so are our mares. We breed about 10 foals a year and those not sold as a foal then are stored until they are 3.

Can you tell me why in your eyes this is wrong? We put a lot of care and thought into our breeding and i think doing a good job. I have 44 yrs experience and my granmother bred my ponies.

[Milliesmum]

Do you not think it might have been better to weigh up the pro's and con's before you let the colt out with your mares? Like what you are aiming to breed, what it's job will be and will it be a quality animal which you could find a good home for if your circumstances were to change? It seems like you want your mare in foal at any cost, but you need to think that foals grow up and then what?

[sahsie]

i just cant work out why so many people have a real chip on their shoulder about it...... i asked questions so that i did get it right - i am not competing for your slots - i too have been to many very good breeders - but at the same time also some very traveller ones with too many horses in poor states unbrushed or cared for, with inadequate fencing ..... i just want to put my 2 mares in foal - please do not comment unless you ACTUALLY have soemthing constructive to say??? if i were breeding my dog i wonder if i would have got this much stick? i wonder if german shepherd owners would crucify me for mating with a labrador??? how about a little perspective? my questions were genuine ones and aimed at knowledgeable people ......... anyone offended by my responses may well like to ask themselves WHY it triggered a nerve with them and stick to commenting on their own posts

[Milliesmum]

If you post on a public forum you invite ALL opinions, whether you like what you hear or not is another matter!

[xxshowponyxx]

May 23, 2010 15:33:56 GMT @sahsie said:

if i were breeding my dog i wonder if i would have got this much stick? i wonder if german shepherd owners would crucify me for mating with a labrador??? how about a little perspective?

As a sucessful dog breeder (although not GSDs or labradors) I would be extremely 'miffed' if someone had one of my pups, carefully bred for generations for the correct type, confirmation and quality and crossed it with a completely different breed....so much so in fact that all of my stock were sold with endorsed papers so they couldnt breed, unless the new owner had had an in depth discussion with me and convinced me that they were going to breed with the same integrity...

It seems you did not buy this colt with the intention of using him on these mares? Nor have you got him licensed by a vet, so you cannot blame posters for assuming you have used him on a whim...because he is interested?

You are extremely fortunate to be able to be in a position to keep as many horses as you want, I wonder if you have considered rescuing a few to give them what sounds like a wonderful life, as I am sure this would be just as rewarding.

[brindlerainbow]

sashie what seems a bit strange is that you say you are asking questions so that you get it right but its too late the colt is in with the mares, it would probably have been better to ask the questions before covering them!! Everyone who has commented on your thread has had something constructive to say!! You asked the questions and you have been given the answers unfortunately for you they are not what you want to hear. If you can gaurentee the foals a home for life then that is fine but no one knows what the future holds. Earlier I had a look at your previous posts/threads and at one point you were selling 6 ponies.........................

[Milliesmum]

Oh dear, it seems Sahsie has jumped ship. Perhaps the truth hurts? We're nothing if not totally honest on HG! Although I have a feeling that the foals will arrive come what may.

Sorry you felt that you had to delete your account sahsie.

[kagster]

all i will say is if you add another stallion to the mixture and the other colt has actually covered the mare she could be at risk of infection especially if she has been covered with other stallions previously!!! x x

[bonnieheather]

Oh Dear, more foals bred for no reason that won't be worth very much, sad.......

[pattendown]

im amazed at this thread this poor person has been condemed for breeding crap ponies when she said they had good conformation ,just shot down especially from people that breed themselves ,im sure when you all wanted to breed someone didnt say your foals were going to be rubbish and condemed to go to the meat man ,,all of us had to start somewhere so why not support the small breeder instead of shooting them down if its ok for some people to breed for profit why isnt it ok for someone else ,,i know she was asking questions about 2 stallions but hey not everyone comes with the knowledge ,,,,i think its dont do as i do ,its do as i say ,,,,,,i suppose im gunna be shot down now but hey ho thats my opinion

[vjc]

Sashie as someone who has been breeding for nearly 30years (responsibly i might add!) breeding can be an emotional minefield! the ideal is a nice healthy foal to sell to a lovely caring owner welll unfortunately it is not that easy!!! i am not meaning to sound condiscending far from it! just merely passing some advice (if you want it) on. Luckily i have always found nice homes and if for any reason they can not keep my horses they have been kind enough to let me buy them back before putting them on the open market. I know where all the foals i have bred are and thats the way i need to be. Now that is just the homing issue, as for even producing a healthy foal, that is also not writtten in stone! i have had some heart wrenching episodes involving a foal dying trapped in the wrong position with nearly losing my beloved mare, two foals lost at three weeks old due to illness and fitting, and the only mare we could not scan delivering twins which one died and the other was deformed but we kept her and loved her untill she was seven and her legs broke down!!! Sorry to lay this on you but like i said earlier breeding can be so rewarding but not without huge risks and heartbreak. Hope i have not offended you that was not my intention, good luck whatever your decision.

[Billybob]

May 28, 2010 23:39:28 GMT pattendown said:

im amazed at this thread this poor person has been condemed for breeding crap ponies when she said they had good conformation ,just shot down especially from people that breed themselves ,im sure when you all wanted to breed someone didnt say your foals were going to be rubbish and condemed to go to the meat man ,,all of us had to start somewhere so why not support the small breeder instead of shooting them down if its ok for some people to breed for profit why isnt it ok for someone else ,,i know she was asking questions about 2 stallions but hey not everyone comes with the knowledge ,,,,i think its dont do as i do ,its do as i say ,,,,,,i suppose im gunna be shot down now but hey ho thats my opinion

I have to agree with you Pattendown...... maybe we will get shot down together!!!!!!