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Post by needsaspirin on Jul 12, 2010 10:40:58 GMT
Went to the Royal to watch the working hunter ponies yesterday and was so dissappointed to see one of the contenders in the Championship was soooo lame! It was the same in its class and I just wondered how the judge could have missed it.
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Post by whiteone on Jul 12, 2010 13:58:27 GMT
As this narrows it down to one of 8 ponies I do not think it is fair to comment publicly. This was truly a gathering of top ponies and good judges. If this pony was so obviously "lame" I am sure it would not have been in the championship, let alone be placed 1st or 2nd in its class!
Sometimes by the time these seasoned ponies get in the championship they are anticipating the gallop and this could explain a little unlevelness, nodding or inconsistency in their way of going....
Is it necessary to make a comment about these ponies on a public forum? If you were so interested why did you not go and ask the judge on completion of the championship?
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Post by noname on Jul 12, 2010 15:19:43 GMT
well the pony has not been named so what is the problem whiteone
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Post by whiteone on Jul 12, 2010 15:47:17 GMT
I know the pony has not been named. I was not there or involved but still would not like a very negative comment to be so narrowed down to a handful of ponies if I were fortunate enough to have been placed 1st or 2nd in these classes...HOWEVER, I think I was just overwhelmed (having had a good look at this site) by the amount of negative comments! If anyone not involved in showing read this they would run a mile and never consider joining in.
But..as this is an open forum and I appreciate ( and sometimes applaud) the fact that people can air their views.
It would just make a pleasant change to see more positive opinions!
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Post by noname on Jul 12, 2010 16:31:15 GMT
well when you read the magority of threads on this site they are very bit*hy and negative and this shows you what the magority of horsey people are like
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Post by Milliesmum on Jul 12, 2010 17:07:05 GMT
well when you read the magority of threads on this site they are very bit*hy and negative and this shows you what the magority of horsey people are like Well if that's your true opinion then I feel sorry for you, because you are missing out on such a lot. Through this site I've gained friends, received help and moral support, had so many laughs, and shared so many highs and lows with people. Perhaps if you feel the way you do then there might be another forum out there that would suit you better?
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Post by needaspirin on Jul 12, 2010 19:20:25 GMT
well when you read the magority of threads on this site they are very bit*hy and negative and this shows you what the magority of horsey people are like Well if that's your true opinion then I feel sorry for you, because you are missing out on such a lot. Through this site I've gained friends, received help and moral support, had so many laughs, and shared so many highs and lows with people. Perhaps if you feel the way you do then there might be another forum out there that would suit you better? THIs was not a bit*hy dig at a named pony - but a question as to how the judge could have missed it. Purposely worded to avoid highlighting the identity of the horse or pony
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Post by noname on Jul 12, 2010 20:20:35 GMT
No I know needaspirin I was referring to whiteone answer to your original thread as I thought she was a little over the top as you did not mention any names
(Is it necessary to make a comment about these ponies on a public forum? If you were so interested why did you not go and ask the judge on completion of the championship?)
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Post by sageandonion on Jul 12, 2010 20:34:49 GMT
Of course it wasn't lame and if a horse was lame being ridden it would be a welfare issue and you would have pointed it out to everyone.
I just wonder why people say how awful this site is and then come on here, most odd.
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Post by noname on Jul 12, 2010 20:43:24 GMT
did not say that this site was awful just that a lot of the threads turn out bit*hy and if you go to shows a lot of people are bit*hy about other people and ponies but everyone knows this I did not think that there was anything wrong with the thread as it does happen just thought whiteone comment was a bit harsh although when things are put down on paper they can be taken the wrong way
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Post by puzzled on Jul 12, 2010 22:06:13 GMT
We also went to the show. We were spectators and we also thought the pony was lame. If it wasn't it had a really strange way of going. In its show it seemed to have a very odd canter. TERRIBLY slowly and certainly not cantering!!!
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Post by hollycane on Jul 12, 2010 22:28:45 GMT
Agree with S+O if it really was that lame I'm amazed that only two people noticed it and not the judges/stewards/hundreds of other part time judges stood round the ringside who usually create merry hell immediately. So needaspirin why didn't you just ask the judges who judged this terribly lame pony on the day? If you were then not satisfied with their answer you could have put your money down as an objection and then written a letter of complaint to the society in question rather than just come on here and make negative comments.
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Post by titch on Jul 12, 2010 22:34:29 GMT
Agree no good discussing it when it's happened. You need to say something there and then else what's the point in discussing???
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Post by stabled on Jul 13, 2010 7:50:13 GMT
No. why would you make a fuss seeing as it would not alter the results? ? i saw this pony too and i think that everyone else must have been blind not to see it. mearly stating a fact
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Post by monopoly on Jul 13, 2010 7:56:01 GMT
i agree i came for a day out to see what was happening at other rings because my daughter was riding natives. from my seat in the grandstand all of its paces looked most peculiar? ? especially canter!
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Post by noname on Jul 13, 2010 8:18:48 GMT
why complain if you are a spectator it gets you nowhere and why not come on here and comment about it is this not a site where you come and discuss things its in the name horse GOSSIP
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Post by halfpass on Jul 13, 2010 9:35:59 GMT
why complain if you are a spectator it gets you nowhere and why not come on here and comment about it is this not a site where you come and discuss things its in the name horse GOSSIP I think you are quite right to come on here and discuss this problem as you have rightly said the clue to the site is in the name, BUT, I do think it would of held more weight to your argument if you had of put in a complaint at the show rather than just saying that it is a waste of time, you don't know this for a fact as you did not do it, next time put in that complaint you may be surprised
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Post by needaspirin on Jul 13, 2010 9:46:53 GMT
Agree with S+O if it really was that lame I'm amazed that only two people noticed it and not the judges/stewards/hundreds of other part time judges stood round the ringside who usually create merry hell immediately. So needaspirin why didn't you just ask the judges who judged this terribly lame pony on the day? If you were then not satisfied with their answer you could have put your money down as an objection and then written a letter of complaint to the society in question rather than just come on here and make negative comments. It would appear Hollycane, that more than 2 people noticed it. What exactly would creating merry hell around the ring have achieved. Firstly, the horse/pony would have to have been named (presumably the connections can see it too mind you) To make an objection, I understand that you have to be a competitor in that class - I wasn't. And if you had been the judge (I am hoping you weren't) and I came up to you at the time, what would you have replied if, as was obvioiusly the case, you didn't agree with me. And, selfishly, how would you react to my pony the next time it appears with you judging? Might you not have had even the tiniest urge to find fault? You are only human after all What would creating a scene have achieved. I am surely far better to make a mental note that perhaps I didn't agree with them on that day, and act accordingly when making entries. If I had been a competitor and lodged an objection, I would have needed at least a video camera to back my objection up. Surely its is better to "let sleeping dogs lie" - or isn't it. Welfare issue it certainly was - but isn't that what the stewards are there for. There were enough of them around!
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Post by ellieraga on Jul 13, 2010 9:47:18 GMT
If the pony was as lame as you state and you are a lover of horses then can you please explain why you did not take this up on the day following the correct procedure ?
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Post by noname on Jul 13, 2010 10:08:52 GMT
quite right needaspirin and you will be needing some aspirin by the time you have finished banging your head against a brick wall ;D
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Post by needaspirin on Jul 13, 2010 10:29:35 GMT
If the pony was as lame as you state and you are a lover of horses then can you please explain why you did not take this up on the day following the correct procedure ? ?? What is the correct procedure that should have been followed? Surely the judges too are horse lovers - they were in the best position to act. This was the point of my original post
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Post by ellieraga on Jul 13, 2010 11:13:45 GMT
If you felt it a big enough issue to raise on an open forum then maybe would of been in all parties best intrests to raise with the steward of the class or show secretary surely
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Post by needaspirin on Jul 13, 2010 11:48:35 GMT
I don't feel Big at all - that was not my intention. But since advice has been given, I will take it and write to the show. When (if) I get a response, I will let you know
Just to get the marks on the day was hard enough - Having seen the comments relating to the PP display, and seen the video, I should think that the organisers had rather more pressing welfare issues to contend with.
That does not detract from the original question that I wondered how the judges could have missed it
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Post by ellieraga on Jul 13, 2010 12:19:38 GMT
Back to the original question and the judge not noticing ? Did the mentioned pony take champion or reserve or did the judge not place and then mention quietly to the rider that the pony was lame and did it so no one else heard to avoid embarrassment
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Post by armada on Jul 13, 2010 19:24:09 GMT
Unfortunately I saw the same thing happen at a major county show a few years ago, the rider came to the ring side whilst they were trotting round, said to the producer, he is'nt feeling sound and was told he is fine, get on with it, I was standing right next to the producer and heard every word said. Someone did go and get a senior steward from the hut and she went into the ring, where a confab took place between her, the ring steward and the judge, they all watched the pony trotting round, nodding, I might add, and it was deemed sound enough to stay in the ring by the judge. It was then placed in the top 4. Astounding - even after a complaint had clearly been made and it was blatantly obvious to all and sundry the pony was not sound, it remained in the class. But then again, did not an obviously lame pony get champion at a rather high profile Welsh Breed Show earlier this year?
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Post by hollycane on Jul 13, 2010 19:41:00 GMT
blimey needasprin, I've just read your reply and I am gobsmacked. What you seem to be saying is that you were more interested in protecting your own interests for the next class you were showing in than making a formal complaint even though you talk about welfare issues.. I don't know of any society or showground that limits making an objection to competitors in the class concerned. I'm also very concerned about your view of pony judges (of which I am not).
The crux of the matter is that in your opinion and in that of several others an unamed pony in the working hunter pony championship at the Royal Show 2010 was lame enough to make you all concerned for it's welfare and yet none of you seem to have made a formal complaint of any kind either to the show or the society concerned. The judges either did not see this or took this into consideration in the awards. I would deraly love for people to please make their complaints official and formal rather than this whispering campaign. needasprin I do not know who you are and have no idea what pony you are talking about but if things are to change, if these things are really to stop happening you must be brave enough to make yourself heard in an official manner. I'm sorry that you feel it may damage your own chances if you do so. In fact I think this is the most depressing fact I have heard here.
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Post by frustrated guest on Jul 13, 2010 21:39:24 GMT
well ive got 3 scenarios for you all to do with lameness - the first just recently the judge very quickly spotted a broodmare in my class was lame - spoke to the owner - asked that the horse wasnt run out again but allowed it to stay in the class as its foal was in the next class and placed at the bottom accordingly - but the judge was very nice about the horse saying had she not been lame she would have won - for me this is how a judge should be - honest with competitor about where it would be placed sound and then placing it last or sending it out and not expecting it to carry on either way.
the second scenario was at another recent show in an in hand class - and one pony was obviously lame - pulling up noticably short on a hind leg in walk and not right at all in trot leaving the leg behind - everyone in the crowd appeared to notice (a lot of mutterings)so i said to a friend that maybe i should point out to the owner it was lame as the judge didnt seem to have noticed (or had and was ignoring it??) but she said apparently the owner knew it was not right anyway as someone told her at another show and she'd said it had been like that for ages - now this may be heresay so dont quote me on it - its just what i got told - so i said nothing to the owner - but it did concern me that the judge placed the pony 2nd - because if she hadnt spotted it was lame then i question her ability to judge - how can you judge movement if you dont know whats sound or not, and if she had i question her morals at expecting a lame horse to run out and then placing it!!!
and finally at an agricultural show a few years ago a pony got placed first and was definately lame - someone did put in a complaint but the judge over-ruled it and said even though the pony was lame it was still the best (yes it was and even lame it still covered more ground than most but morally its wrong imo)and the steward told me that you can guarantee her entires wont be accepted next year - apparently they hate people who complain and those who do go on a black list - now this may not happen at all shows but i can tell you on hearing that i certainly would think twice about complaining!!! - personally i prefer to speak to the owner anyway.
so anyway - thats my experiences of lame horses in the ring!
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Post by needaspirin on Jul 14, 2010 7:43:33 GMT
Hollycane - my original thread was not a whispering campaign about the pony. It was a question about the judges. If they didn't notice that this pony was lame then I don't know where they were looking. If they did, should they have allowed it to continue wobbling around the ring? As I said, I have no video evidence but I have written to the show concerned (as I said before) and I will advise on hear what the response is. Having said that, it should not be up to a bystander - who was not a competitor in the Championship, to "police" any welfare issue. That is surely up to the judges and stewards in charge of the class or championship.
I have no problem objecting to the Show Executive but, whether you find it depressing or not, I very much do have a problem confronting oft used judges at the show - unless I am allowed to wear a mask. Now I am sure that if you had been judging the Championship, you would have stopped the class and pulled the offending pony into the middle - or sent it out - wouldn't you? but lets just say you missed it and I came up to you after the championship and asked you why you allowed it to continue - what would your response have been to me - just as a matter of interest
Perhaps I am just a coward in that I am not prepared to ask the judges on the day, but I am sadly not prepared to prove you right or wrong - any other volunteers?
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Post by stephjw1 on Jul 14, 2010 9:48:36 GMT
Just read this thread did anyone watching approach the rider coming out of the ring and tell that the horse was lame
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