Molly
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Post by Molly on Nov 30, 2006 8:56:40 GMT
So..we have had a thread on show ponies competing in the intermediate classes..what about 15 SHP that compete in the ISHT?
Do you agree with it?
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hackety
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Elegant and light in the hand!
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Post by hackety on Nov 30, 2006 9:58:46 GMT
Hi Molly, this should be a good debate just like the Int SRT and 148cm SP's. Well, I will give my view ......... might get stamped on, but it is from a judging perspective and is a personal preference not law so there you go. I think it all comes down to type again, when I am judging a ISHT class, I am looking for as near to a Small Hunter stamp as I can get. I don't want a big pony, but am looking for a small horse. Something that I would happily show as a hunter myself. Therefore, to me it doesn't really have any significance whether it is 153cm or 158cm. If the smaller animal was truer to type and the bigger horse was a scaled up pony or RH type then I would penalise it on type. I don't think that keeping the 153cm animals out of the Intermediates will help anything as different judges like different types anyway. I know it means that they get an extra class to do but that is the way of the world.
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Post by well on Nov 30, 2006 10:25:37 GMT
Having just bought an isht I know just how hard it is to find the right one, a real minature middleweight hunter rather that one with pony features. I agree an ISHT should be one than can do small hunters, but and very few 15shp could do that.Obviously there are exceptions!
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hackety
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Post by hackety on Nov 30, 2006 10:46:00 GMT
very few 15shp could do that.Obviously there are exceptions! Exactly, hence 153cm get penalised on the type mark. I think most of the time things have a way of sorting themselves out in these situations. Good luck with your new gee gee!
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Molly
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Post by Molly on Nov 30, 2006 11:02:13 GMT
I dont see a problem with the 15 SHP competing in the ISHT if they are typey enough to be a ISHT class. E.G- Are a minature Small Hunter. I have seen a few this season in the ISHT that simply aren't ISHT.
As you say there are very few 153 SHP's who could do both classes.
There are some HUGE 153 SHP that can get away with doing both classes, but there are some that do the classes are are defiantly not ISHT, too fine and too pony like.
Thats just my opinion.. ;D
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Post by woof woof on Nov 30, 2006 14:00:03 GMT
I think the BSPS needs to change the name of these classes. That would go much of the way to providing clarification with respect to this debate.
Instead of "intermediate show hunter type" why not just call it what it should be ie an intermediate small show hunter class which should be judged as such and to the format of any adult hunter class. Then if a 15hh animal is to type I see no reason why it can't compete in this class whilst the more ponyish 15hh would be discouraged from participating, as it would in the adult equivalent because its not going to get very far in the final line up.
Perhaps its also time to review the height classifications for SH classes altogether. If for example, these were amended so inline with show pony heights ie 128, 138 and 148cm. It takes an exceptional 148cm SHP to stand top against its larger more horsey rivals in the 153cm SHP class and a pony thats by just a centimetre outgrown the 143cm class hasnt really a hope in the larger height class. By reducing the height to 148cm this problem is solved.
Of course the 148cm pony thats marginally grown out of the 148cm class is then disadvantaged if its of pony type but I still think this change would be better as there should be more emphasis made here with the distinction being upto a certain height the ideal standard is of PONY type, over that height a HORSE.
Now how they would then handle the show riding type classes is another matter. At present these classes are full of show ponies, overgrown show ponies, hacks and riding horses with the odd small hunter type thrown in the mix too. Thats a difficult job for any judge, akin to having to judge a combined hack and riding horse class at a county show.
I'd like to see a return to the original "juvenile riders" class format when they first brought in classes for 15hh ponies whereby in the 153cm class the emphasis again is on PONY type. This then gives the scopier more rangy 148cm pony and the overgrown 148cm pony a class of its own.
Then raise the minimum height in the small intermediates, say to 153cm thus gettting rid of the show ponies and putting the emphasis firmly where it should be that these are HORSE classes.
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