HOYS Remeasuring

[confusion]

Hi Thinglye (sorry if the name is wrong!!)

This year we qualified for HOYS with an M&M worker and when we rang HOYS to ask if we needed a height certificate they said 'no we didnt as it was an M&M WHP'. I asked her to check with someone else - which she did and still said we didnt need one. Strange i told her as i know the M&M first ridden and lead rein ponies need them and im assuming the riddens do to.
Therefore we competed at HOYS, without a height certificate. Also you dont need a height certificate to registar a pony with BSPS for the Heritage classes.
It all seems rather strange to me - how can the JMB / HOYS justify taking a championship away from the small hack but then let M&M WHP compete without a height certificate?
It leaves the door wide open for people to enter ponies which they know are too big for the class. And if i understand what you have said correctly if you have an M&M WHPwhich is under 8, even if you win you are not going to get measured!!
Does anyone know why BSPS / PUK dont request height certificates for M&M ponies?

[Jo Jenkins]

Hi Confusion. It is a bit isn't it!
HOYS response to you is v surprising as each section has an upper height limit. I do know last year there were quite a few m&m's done after HOYS so goodness knows what they were in. PUK just want the money so they wouldn't want to stop anybody entering!!

[Nikki]

I think it was said that the champion SP, Anton Princess Nadia, had been sold back to her breeder (not to Australia).

So if the Anton stud were to show her in-hand as a broodmare, would she still have to be re-measured?

[girly]

We had an M&M WHP and on the entry form you had to fill in the JMB number. I am amazed and horrifed that you were allowed to compete without a height certificate.

[measuremeasure]

yeah i got told if you qualified for Hoys you had to produce a valid JMB certificate. You had a little while after you had qualified to go and get one.
You can take your ponies next year to be remeasured for HOYS. Not sure what the end dat is but most people leave it until next year so they have the winter to let them down.

[too big]

i thought that for HOYS Mand M had no height restrictions , ie no certs req but Ponies should follow the breed / society guides ...not sure about WHP , but am sure with Connis you can go to HOYS without a height cert in plats but need one for NPS Olympia , cos have noticed the odd top big connis dont do Olympia quals ...!

[measuremeasure]

riddens won't but whp are governed by height so have to be measured as just having a dartmoor doesnt mean it is 12hh!!

[Mary H]

When we qualified for NPS Olympia with P the Judge last year we had to have a height certificate even though D's have no upper height limit.

When we qualified Judge and Governer for HOYs this year neither of them were asked for height certificates, but NPS requested one for Governer as he had qualified for Olympia. Every pony that qualifies for Olympia has to produce a height certificate within 6 weeks of qualifying it is on the back of your yellow card.

Hope this helps

Aimee's mum

PS hard luck Debbie, thinking of you.

[erm]

Debbie doesn't lose her title does she At least she was honest enought o put him forward for measuring And he has left the smalls at the top

[measuremeasure]

No you never lose your title.
Quite a lot of ponies have measured out over the years. There was a lovely 15hh they measured out after it when champion and so did last year intermediate champion.

No one is exempt from measuring if you win i believe but many people are now getting life heights for their ponies and then objecting to them themselves and having them remeasured as i belive once a ponies life height has been objected to but it has been remeasured back in no one can object again. Stops particularly bit*hey people keep objecting to your pony mid season!

[no height required]

this is a message for measuremeasure.
You have put on a post that as M&M WHP are restricted by height they do need to be measured.
I too thought this was true and it is afterall logical!! - but as someone else has put on here i too qualified a pony for HOYS this year in the small height and was not asked by HOYS to present a height certificate.
Our pony is tiny but as far as HOYS knows it could be 12.2HH. We filled in our entry and left the height certificate box blank and were never asked for the number.

This does seem a error by HOYS, maybe as it was their first year running the M&M WHP classes, but as someone else has also said we can jump 122cm classes with ponies at BSPS and we dont need height certificates when registering the ponies. Therefore these too could be overheight.

There have been ponies in the past which have jumped M&M WHP classes at HOYS in the 122cm section which have looked a little large and people assume it must be the correct size as its at HOYS. I dont think NPS asked for height certificates either last year if you qualified??

I have to add it is frustrating when you do see ponies in the ring which are so obviously overheight.

[measuremeasure]

that does seem frustrating! Actually I have to say i believe it was last year that we were asked for a height certificate when you qualify so i guess that was NPS not BSPS.

Does seem odd, if it's height restricted surely there should be measurements and i agree with you i have seen a few suspected heights in the 12hh section!

[biggie]

Think that you can only tell how big a pony is if you actually measure them , as some ponies look big in the ring and are actually small when you stand against them without tack on ....but do think HOYS flats should have to have a height cert as if you buy a novice flat conni you never have to measure them unless you want to do Olympias with them ...does this not leave it wide open for over height ponies ...??!!

[inches]

When we qualified for HOYs last year in the M&M WHP we had 6 weeks to submit a valid jmb certificate to the NPs or our qualification would be declared void. It takes a few weeks to come through to. I guess from the posts above that this is no longer the case.

[biggie]

was just refering to Connis and to flat classes , think its cos the HOYs are not run under anyones rules ? Maybe its time a society took it ???over !!!

[curious]

dillis said:

I thought the show pony champion had been sold to Australia so therefore they'd probably pass on remeasuring, then her certificate just gets invalidated, there are a few past HOYS champs with invalidated certificates on the jmb site. [/quote]

Is it true this pony has gone to australia? Shame if she has, lovely pony. i'm sure there was an old thread about her. Why did it get removed?

[yeah right]

I always laugh when people say a horse or pony is well overheight. If you stand 50 feet away from a wall and see 20 marks on the wall ranging between 155 and 160cm - you are looking for 158cm. I would be willing to bet my house on ANYONE being able to 100% guarantee on working out which is the right mark representing 158cm. For god's sake, some horses may LOOK bigger, but unless you remeasure every horse you have no way of telling who is or who isn't overheight. This subject (as you can probably tell) REALLY bugs me. A centimetre is not much, and from 50 feet away (or more sometimes) is impossible to spot.

[Oh forgot to say]

I understand at HOYS that:
All champions are measured. If there is no champion (ie. small hunter) then the winner is measured.
If the winner only has an annual height, then the next horse is measured (until they find one that has a life height).
If a horse measures out, I think (not 100% sure) they have to keep measuring until they find one that measures in.

It does not show the second placed small hunter as having been remeasured so are you sure that it has been done?