HOYS Remeasuring

[kma]

I see we have the first casualty-Coppenagh Lad, small hunter, now 162cms from 158!

[Molly]

Did any show ponies, show hunter ponies or show riding types get measured out?

[sallyw]

Measuring mystifies me! How can you stand next to another pony with your up to height one and see that it is inches bigger - and yet gets away with it. We have been re-measured once - and still measured in after a complaint by another competitor (sour grapes, I think), but far too many people get away with it.

[woof woof]

Wow, an inch and a half over

One pony I had years ago set tongues wagging as a 4 year old. Come remeasuring the next Spring we were even worried too but he measured in half an inch still inder 14.2hh - he really was one of those who grew a hand higher in the ring, such was his presence.

Another stayed under 158cm as a 4,5 year old, measured right up to height at 6 year old but at the end of his 6th year was also an inch and a half over so with thoroughbreds it can happen.

How old is this horse, anyone?

[Sad]

I always feel very sad when I hear of HOYS winners being remeasured too big as I am sure if the owner / producer really thought they stood no chance, ie 3 inches, over they would never take them for re measurement but retire them instead. A stressful and disappointing time for all concerned

[Jo Jenkins]

It is a great shame. This horse is 10 i think. He probably did measure at 7 but I have had at least two hunters who kept growing until well into their eighth year. they were 'weight' so it didn't matter. Maybe the Full or final m'ment should be done at 8 yrs and then it could be classed as a proper 'life' certificate. OR maybe measure as normal up to 7 years then go to a Laser measuring at 8 for a proper life certificate which could not be opposed by anyone. Have these laser m'ments done at just a selection of 'elite' vets spread over the country .

[Guest 1]

Poor Debbie! Such a shame and not at all deserved. He came from Ireland and they often keep growing well until they are 8! Real real shame!

[SH]

It's very sad for Debbie as he's a superb little horse but he joins an illustrious set who have measured out of the Small Hunter Section. More have than haven't.

[kma]

Very sad. Lets hope he is the only casualty. I think the show pony champ is yet to be remeasured, its not on the jmb website as having been done yet anyway.

[Debbie]

Thanks to all that have made comments on Coppenagh Lad being measured over.

I just wanted to take the oppertunity to explain, I bought him as a 4 year old, he was measured as a 5 / 6 and 7 yar old with no problem, I never thought he would be over height, and in the ring often looked small compared to others.

I had made the decision to retire him from small hunters, due to my ignorance I was not aware I could refuse to be measured and just leave it at that, if I had I would ot have taken time off work and travelled him down to the measuring.

I have always planned to do workers with Bertie and that will still be the way forward for him, he is 10 years old so plenty of competative work left in him!

I think the real reason behind Bertie growing is due to a bad start, he had a full collic opperation as a 4 year old, then 3 months later had a hernia opp so has a mesh lining in his stomach, this is why he did not start showing until mid way through his 5 year old year, this possibly slowed up his development.

What I can say is the measuring pannel were lovely, very fair and I have absolutly no complaints at all on how they handled the process - actually Howard who runs the JMB was Berties 2nd measurer and knew he was a genuine 158cm as a 6yr old.

I hope this answers anyones questions and people realise that I genuinly was not knowingly showing an over height small hunter.

Thank you

Debbie

[kma]

Debbie he's stunning and i too didnt think he looked big in amongst the others. Although you cannot compete in that section again he will always be a HOYS champion and noone can take that away from him.

I'm so sorry that it didnt work out for you and i wish you the best of luck next season for the workers

[tape measure]

Good on you Debbie for making the statement on here.

Can someone explain who has to be re-measured after HOYS?

I thought it was just Champions but on looking at the web site the reserve M&M WHP Hallnaker Martin has been done, suggesting it is Champs and Reserves.

If this is the case why wasnt Millford Funtime (Reserve M&M WHP - 122cm?) re-measured last year?

What is the deadline by which they have to be re-measured?

[resmeasure]

I believe it is to do with the ponies age. Ie if the pony that is champion doesnt have its life height it will be being remeasured anyway at the beginning of the season, so the reserve has to be remeasured instead.
i think this is right

[Tape measure]

That seems crazy!!

In other words a pony which is known to be overheight can go to HOYS - Win, Take Champion with an annual height certificate and then when re-measured in the January, whoops - its a bit big! Keep the championship status, although it was too big when it won!!!

Surely all winners of all classes should be measured?
To be 2nd to a pony which is clearly too big but may only be 6 / 7 years old must be a nightmare.

[Caroline]

As far as I understand its all the champaions, so certain classes do not have multiple sections so are automatically champions.

May be the reserve was requested? it is a random request by the JMB not HOYS so they chose who is measured regardless of annual or life certificates - thats my understanding anyway?

[well]

well, when I was looking for a small hunter, I was told he would need to be at least 16hh needless to say I got one somewhat under that.
At the end of the day, Debbie won HOYS on the horses merit, and extra inch (which is small next to some of them) wouldn't have made any difference

[dillis]

kma said:

Very sad. Lets hope he is the only casualty. I think the show pony champ is yet to be remeasured, its not on the jmb website as having been done yet anyway.

I thought the show pony champion had been sold to Australia so therefore they'd probably pass on remeasuring, then her certificate just gets invalidated, there are a few past HOYS champs with invalidated certificates on the jmb site.

[blackknight1]

Well done Debbie and what a shame? Good luck in the workers with Bertie next year...You did a grand job at HOYS with all of your boys

[Jo Jenkins]

For sure it has taken the shine from the competition, yet again. I cannot help but feel sorry for those who come second on these occaisions. As without that (whichever) big small it could have been them going down the centre line.

[taped]

So do the JMB do the remeasuring for free - or is this yet another cost for the owner?

[2nd]

willyie said:

For sure it has taken the shine from the competition, yet again. I cannot help but feel sorry for those who come second on these occaisions. As without that (whichever) big small it could have been them going down the centre line.

The 2nd placed Small hunter has also measured out.

Debbie, please do not let this dampen your achievements, you are one of the most deserving competitors i know & applaud you for coming on here to quieten your critics. Wouldn't it be lovely if all owners & producers thought enough of their horses, or had a talented enough one, to find another job for it in the show ring. How many horses have seemingly disappeared since re-measurement came into force?

[Jo Jenkins]

You are mistaken '2nd Guest', in a class like the Small Hunters where there is only 1 class ONLY THE FIRST IS MEASURED unless they are the holders of an annual certificate (which in this case it wasn't). If there are two sections eg small & large r/horses if the Champion is on an annual THEN they would measure the Reserve Champion and then only if they were both from the small section. If the Large was Champion then they would measure the Small IF it was Reserve and If it was on an annual. COMPLICATED BUT true. Of course Debbie will never forget her go down the centre line, and nor should she. Of course it is a bonus that her horse jumps well enough to go to do workers, MOST do not. Lough Crew is a fab example of a small hunter who qualifies for the workers at HOYS and of course many smalls qualify in the Ladies too. So I am sure many more triumphs will be coming Debbies way. Good Luck to the both of them.

[2nd]

i do not know the "in's & out's" thingyie but i can assure you that the horse that was 2nd in the small hunter has been re-measured & measured out.

[woof woof]

Just to say I feel so sorry for the lady owner of this horse. Its so easy to jump on the usual bandwagon when we hear news like this and done it myself too -instant presumptions..

But this thread has changed my perspective. As someone has said already anyone knowing their horse was of suspect height wouldnt expose it to any scrutiny should it win, skipping wembley rather than chance it. I havent been in that position but admit if I were I wouldnt risk it- who would, considering possible instant loss of value etc.

So, whilst I dont know you, I'd like to express my heartfelt sympathy for you Debbie and admiration at your bravery coming on here with the facts and curbing speculation and good luck in workers in the future with him

[Guest 1]

Here Here!

Well done Debbie! It was a well deserved win! You should of had the top spot at the Hunter Show earlier in the year to.

Good luck in the workers!

[champion]

So if all champions need to be re-measured regardless of whether they have an annual or a life certificate will Moortown Honeyman need to be re-measured as he was champion worker?
He isnt on the list on the JMB website so does that mean he hasnt been taken for the re-measure or does he still have time to go?

[not the end]

Debbie, great respect for your honest response.
Its a win you will hopefully remember with great joy for the rest of your life.
Horses and ponies do grow past 7yo, I personally had a similar experience with a 14hh SHP who was remeasured at 9 ( at our request) and was full 14.2- he had a succesful career as a ISRT until he retired.
The best of luck with the workers next year ;D

[Jo Jenkins]

Hi 'champion' if Moortown Honeyman has an annual cert he will not be remeasured as he will have to be measured again in 07 in order to compete again anyway,so they don 't do them. IF he holds a FULL or what we all used to call a LIFE cert. then yes he will have to be remeasured. If he is not on website it is because either he has not been presented yet or it has not been updated. If you measure in on a 'remeasurement' successfully then you will never be remeasured again even if you win HOYS again. Putting HOYS aside the only height cert. that can be objected to by anyone is a FULL.

[Molly]

dillis said:

kma said:

Very sad. Lets hope he is the only casualty. I think the show pony champ is yet to be remeasured, its not on the jmb website as having been done yet anyway.

I thought the show pony champion had been sold to Australia so therefore they'd probably pass on remeasuring, then her certificate just gets invalidated, there are a few past HOYS champs with invalidated certificates on the jmb site.

I thought it had been sold there too. Very nice pony. Dont think it would have a problem measuring in.

[cheeky]

It isnt always the end of the world if your animal measures out look at Mr Moses from last year. he was remeasured as reserve at hoys, champion only had a annual and went up from 148cms to 153 cm and now sucessfully competes in the horse classes. Last year he qualified again and i think he was even placed ! ;D