Inexperienced Farmers turned YO's

[Fed Up AI]

I have owned horses for many years and am a qualified BHS AI of quite a few years. I am very fed up as I am noticing a trend in Scotland anyway of farmers turning themselves into livery yard owners. Usually with an idiot partner in tow who has owned one horse all her life and therefore thinks she knows it all and can advise the farmer. These people really annoy me as they are purley greedy cramming as many horse onto their land a they can squeeze in and then wondering why the grazing becomes horse sick I know of one that has done just this recently by increasing from a small yard of 10 to over 50 and now wonders why they are dropping with grass sickness and other problems. But if you try to point out the problems they are causing they either denie the problem or stand in it with it's my land attitude.
I know a lot of people at the point of giving up owning horses because they are sick of being pontificated to by knowlegeless idiots who are living high off the hogg from horse owners since their common market funding was slashed. At the end of the day it is the horses who suffer We need more legislation to enforce knowledgable YO's. Rant over for now.

[Guestless]

There is no problem debating the issue, but please be careful about making sweeping statements about grass sickness. No-one fully understands this terrible illness yet and it is not appropriate to allege it is purely down to over-grazing (although I appreciate this is seen as a potential contributing factor).

[Babieca]

Know what you mean-I'm dissapointed the Livery Yard approval scheme has been put off for a few years!

[Fed up AI]

I am not implying that this is the only cause for grass sickness. I know as I have unfortunately vast experience in this area but as the vet schools in Scotland say it overgrazing does have signifigance to this terrible disease. Furthermore I also mentioned other problems this is associated with anything from underwight animals due to limited grass and or heavy worm burdens! To name but a few. I know a lot of genuine YO's who do not cram in horses as they are truly concerned about horse welfare and they are experienced and proffesional enough to know that greed comes at a cost. To the horse and their owners. I just wondered what others in the industry thought as so far the only people who seem to have a problem with not overgrazing is greedy YO's who in the vast majority of case (but not all) are inexperience or (do not care) farmers. I also wondered if this was a problem confined only to Scotland or across the UK.

[pimms]

i work for a farming publication and there is nothing wrong with farmers diversifying everyone has to make a living. when they have all the land and building being wasted farming consists of long hours and poor pay. its a horse owners choice to ove there. theres many other people doing worse. good on i say.

[Fed Up AI]

I think you have a very blinkered attitude Pimms. Yes Farmers need to make a living but not at the expense of Equine Welfare. Yes there are some farmers doing sterling work and gaining suitable horse qualifications or hireing experienced staff. I am concerned about the ones with no experience but who pontificate to line their pockets. When I say in my humble opinion that you are blinkered it is your comment that horse owners have a choice were they go. For example the county I work in has 12 livery yards 10 are the farmer type I have discribed who know bug all dont want to know and are very very overgrazed. Of the other 2 remaining yards with very long waiting lists for livery one is a farmer who has deversified and is going through his equine qualifications with the help of experience staff and the other is not a farmer but bought land and started a yard with many respected years of horsmanship behind him. I am OK as I have my own land but the folk I know who are desperate to move to decent well run yards is quite staggering. People can only vote with their feet/hooves if their is somewhere to go. I am starting to think that their should only be registered yards as those who are trying to correctly manage a yard to the benefit of the horse would have nothing to fear!! Oh and by the way my family are all farmers I know the problem we face but some of us know we do not have suitable land for horses.

[pimms]

wow wow calm down there. this is a chat room for discussions not b****iness i think everyone has the right to say what they think. i just come on here to after work to catch up and have a chat not argue and be nasty.

[ponies4me]

someone i used to work for on a farm has now set up a DIY livery yard in staffordshire. she has no experience at all with horses AND has a conviction for animal cruelty as well as H&S issues.

[racehorseman turned welshie]

I am afraid l totally agree with Fed up A1, why should our equine friends be subjected to second rate standards. I could never do that to my best friends..luckily l don't have to either given l have my own land and yard. However the only time l have been on a farmers yard it was run very well but that was because each of the horse owners were all experienced on that yard and we all watched out and cared for one another. Luckily we all had our own paddocks and it was our responsibility to maintain this area. the hay came from the farmer but that was all.

[runshaw]

Fed said:

I think you have a very blinkered attitude Pimms. Yes Farmers need to make a living but not at the expense of Equine Welfare. Yes there are some farmers doing sterling work and gaining suitable horse qualifications or hireing experienced staff. I am concerned about the ones with no experience but who pontificate to line their pockets. When I say in my humble opinion that you are blinkered it is your comment that horse owners have a choice were they go. For example the county I work in has 12 livery yards 10 are the farmer type I have discribed who know bug all dont want to know and are very very overgrazed. Of the other 2 remaining yards with very long waiting lists for livery one is a farmer who has deversified and is going through his equine qualifications with the help of experience staff and the other is not a farmer but bought land and started a yard with many respected years of horsmanship behind him. I am OK as I have my own land but the folk I know who are desperate to move to decent well run yards is quite staggering. People can only vote with their feet/hooves if their is somewhere to go. I am starting to think that their should only be registered yards as those who are trying to correctly manage a yard to the benefit of the horse would have nothing to fear!! Oh and by the way my family are all farmers I know the problem we face but some of us know we do not have suitable land for horses.

But if there is a shortage of good yards now do you honestly think that the other land owners will go along the route of getting qualifications etc to run an approved yard or do you think they'll just revert back to maybe renting the land out to other farmers etc and create more of a shortage? Hope that makes sense? Yes i agree there are some that are diversifying, and god knows they have to to be able to survive, but there are also very many yards rented and run by people who have horses/ponies all their lives and still no common sense and sentiment for good animal husbandry. If these places are really that bad surely the horse owners don't go/stay there?

[buster]

well, there are some very experienced "horsey people" that still treat their horses like cattle....doesn't surprise me that farmers may do the same.

Personally im all for farmers diversifying, trying to bring in a £ or two, they've been given a pretty poor time of it by our government and the british people. Maybe its time that people stopped doiing so much moaning and looked at the positive side of the coin. Equestrianism is the fastest growing activity in the Uk, surely people opening their land for equestriam activities and livery yards contributes to this, and therefor is a good thing.

There are plenty examples of horsey folk doing the wrong thing, so why pick on the farmers, maybe they are ignorant of the subject, yet most of them are willing to learn.

[Farming family]

Having read these comments about farmers being involved in livery yards. I think it is very unfair to comment in such a way. Just because a farmer might not have the correct qualifications doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is doing.Frankly an A I qualification isn't worth the paper it is written on unless you have experience and know what you are doing. This you do not gain in college.
Many farmers have this, having been involved with animals throughout their lives.
Most farmers are stock men and posses a sound knowledge in animal husbandry and land maintenance.
How many AI's can say this?
Maybe you should look at yards run by these people as well before commenting on the way farmers are coming into the livery yard business.
We look after our horses well, just like we look after our cows they are well fed, wormed regularly, their feet are looked after and all the youngsters are housed in big barns during the winter months fed on haylage and hard feed. They are not mollycoddled and we never have any behavioral problems. We compete at a high level and have had considerable success in the 30 yrs we have been 'farming horses-and not an AI qualification on the yard!!

[lcelino]

Well I can see both sides of the argument. I'm on a yard owned by an ex-farmer with a livery yard, year round fishing lake and seasonal pick your own fruit business. So he has certainly diversified. Sadly, despite having run the livery yard for over 15 years, he still doesnt know one end from the other with regards to yard safety, fencing, pasture management etc. We have no rules regarding sweeping up, so we have loose hay,straw and shavings blowing all over the place, which is a serious fire hazard, since there isnt actually a no smoking rule (thankfully we all have the sense not to smoke on a yard anyway) . New horses on the yard are not required to be vaccinated, wormed nor are they quarantined for any length of time. Frequently you come to bring your horse in to find it is lathered up, or worse, beaten up by some new horse he has decided will be sharing your paddock with you, without having let you know first. He has no health and safety whatsoever, we have a single kitchen sized fire extinguisher in a 80 ft barn. The gates are usually fastened with bailing twine and hanging on a single hinge. Fence posts are only actually sunk into the ground every other post, the rest are just sitting on top of the ground. The top wire of fencing is around elbow height on my 16.2 horse. And worse, he uses the square hole type fencing on the bottom to stop the smaller ponies escaping. A horse got its leg caught in the fence a couple of years ago and wasnt far from having amputated it at the hock in his efforts to escape. And did the yard owner offer to pay anything towards the vets bill his poor fencing had caused? not on your life. He has 25 horses sharing around 15 acres of grass.

In my opinion, ALL livery yard owners (regardless of their past experience or occupation) should be registered and licensed, having proved their competency and knowledge of pasturee and basic horse management through an examination/test. After all, we are paying for a service, surely we have the right to expect basic safety rules and decent accomodation for our horses!

It is not the fault of inexperienced yard owners that they do not have the necessary knowledge of horses and their management, but it is their fault (and that of the government not enforcing it) that they do nothing to improve their knowledge.

Hope I havent offended anyone here, the owner of my yard is a terrible example, but I'm sure there are many livery yard owners out there who have taken the time and trouble to re-educate themselves on how to run a livery yard!

[Farming Family]

Are the owners of these yards always to blame? What about the clients? Don't they have responsibilities also?

I suggest that many so called horse owners think they know a lot, unfortunately this is not the case.

If you think this of the livery owner why don't you move?