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Post by doodah on Sept 20, 2007 12:57:24 GMT
I've still not received an email from the search for a star people, explaining what they classify as a true amateur. I sent this email approx. 1 month ago after it came to my attention that someone who is producing horses has qualified for the finals at HOYS.
I found the rules, and this person is breaking them. Especially when they only qualified because a competitor above them was stripped of their qualification after they had been paid to just look after a friends horse. I think this is completely unfair, especially when this producer has had 2 horses qualified for the RIHS. I've checked the rules with many other showing friends and even a few judges and this person is actually breaking the rules.
Does anyone else think this is unfair, or is it just me?
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kris
Full Member
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Post by kris on Sept 20, 2007 14:04:35 GMT
i totally agree with you doodah
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Post by okcaj on Sept 20, 2007 14:42:06 GMT
It is totally unfair and i am sure they will be dealt with.
Which class is it for cause i know the race horse to riding horse run on different rules.
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Post by Amateur on Sept 20, 2007 15:08:28 GMT
Although I agree with you regarding our post, I have always had a problem with the Search for a star as being billed as a competition for the "true amateur" - even if you are a "true amateur|" they debar you if you have previously qualified animals for HOYS you are not allowed to enter even if it was for different class!
Really should be advertised as a competition for the "unsuccessful true amateur" or "showing newcomer"
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Post by doodah on Sept 20, 2007 19:56:25 GMT
it is for the hack/ riding horse class okcaj, and we all know how hard it is to make it with a hack because they are so beautiful and perfect. The search 4 a star is great for hack people who find it hard to compete even in the county level ponies uk type classes
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Post by ferret on Sept 20, 2007 22:19:40 GMT
PLEASE NOTE
Please read the Rules.
It is important that you read the rules carefully before completing your entry form
3. Any RIDER or OWNER within the following categories is exempt from competing in or entering an animal in Search for a Star.
(a) judges registered with any showing association, organisation or breed society.
(b) anyone, or anyone closely related to, or resident at the same address as the owner, who produces or schools show horses or ponies for financial remuneration.
(c) anyone, or anyone closely related to, or resident at the same address as the owner, who has ridden or owned a horse or pony exhibited at the Horse of the Year Show since 1997.
4. The HORSE or PONY being exhibited must not be produced in a professional showing yard although may have been purchased from a professional before Jan 2006. However, it must meet all other criteria.
Copied from Search for a star website .....the rules are pretty water tight and i agree do keep lots of successful homeproduced people out of the loop.
Does the person in question conform within these rules ?
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Post by flashthecash on Sept 20, 2007 22:34:33 GMT
I think that SFAS is now a big joke. Don't get me wrong.. I've also competed in this section but many years ago. It was in the days you submitted a CV of your horse/pony.. and picked out of hundreds.. to go through to the last 9 or 10 to compete in a regional final. now you just pay your money and can go too as many qualifiers as you want! I think that is a joke! it has turnwd into a money making thing.. I know of people who chase the qualification up & down dale for years! what is the point?
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Post by ferret on Sept 20, 2007 22:44:58 GMT
am sure it is alot of peoples dreams to ride at HOYS in this class ...and there have been some lovely winners that have gone on to do very well in opens ....but i do think that the standard is very varied at the final .
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Post by okcaj on Sept 21, 2007 13:25:01 GMT
This is a great opportunity for us true amatuers to compete at such a prestigous event. I competed in 2005 in the search for a star section and this year i have been fortunate enough to qualify for the open class on two different occasions, ok both were on second places but being stood 2nd to rob walkers so smart and 2nd to Matt Ainsworths is such an acievment for me and i think that search for a star set me off in the right direction.
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Post by stonky on Sept 25, 2007 18:16:53 GMT
I've still not received an email from the search for a star people, explaining what they classify as a true amateur. I sent this email approx. 1 month ago after it came to my attention that someone who is producing horses has qualified for the finals at HOYS. I found the rules, and this person is breaking them. Especially when they only qualified because a competitor above them was stripped of their qualification after they had been paid to just look after a friends horse. I think this is completely unfair, especially when this producer has had 2 horses qualified for the RIHS. I've checked the rules with many other showing friends and even a few judges and this person is actually breaking the rules. Does anyone else think this is unfair, or is it just me? |
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Post by doodah on Sept 26, 2007 18:12:59 GMT
PLEASE NOTE Please read the Rules. It is important that you read the rules carefully before completing your entry form 3. Any RIDER or OWNER within the following categories is exempt from competing in or entering an animal in Search for a Star. (a) judges registered with any showing association, organisation or breed society. (b) anyone, or anyone closely related to, or resident at the same address as the owner, who produces or schools show horses or ponies for financial remuneration. (c) anyone, or anyone closely related to, or resident at the same address as the owner, who has ridden or owned a horse or pony exhibited at the Horse of the Year Show since 1997. 4. The HORSE or PONY being exhibited must not be produced in a professional showing yard although may have been purchased from a professional before Jan 2006. However, it must meet all other criteria. Copied from Search for a star website .....the rules are pretty water tight and i agree do keep lots of successful homeproduced people out of the loop. Does the person in question conform within these rules ? Sory i took ages to get back, i didn't know that a horse couldn't have been produced a year earlier. It was produced by one of the top sp and hack producers only a year ago, and is still on loan from the producer since march 2006. Also rule 3b, this person produces for money about 4 horses at current, and worked for a producer not so long ago. I don't know if this is breaking the rules. Even if they were breaking an rules, i bet you wouldn't get anywhere unless you were competing in the same class at HOYS and were willing to pay hundreds of pounds for an objection |
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Post by disney on Oct 16, 2007 14:51:36 GMT
Where do you start? I have a friend who has a really nice (relatively) unshown 17hh mare and has suggested he do SFAS Riding Horse or Riding Club Show Horse with her....who does he register her with and where are the qualifiers please? Why is there no M&M section?
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Post by arrogorn on Oct 16, 2007 21:02:11 GMT
i was hoping to do the sfas next season with my two coloureds however they are away in a professional yard until xmas they will be home produced next season, am i right in thinking I will be able to do the qualifiers as i thought it was the 1st of jan in the year the qualifiers take place.
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Post by interlude on Oct 16, 2007 21:56:47 GMT
I do feel that SFAS is not being policed properly there is also someone that has qualified a cob that owns a horse that previously won its class at HOYS!!! how did this slip through the net?  As you say it is a good stepping stone but I do feel that the organisers need to be more rigourous with checkign out competitor details  These people DID NOT break any rules. They bought the horse this season and did NOT take it to hoys themselves. Therefore just because they own it they can still do SFAS on their cob. The rules are very clear on this and there is nothing in them to say you can't own a horse who once went to HOYS with someone else! If you have a concern regarding someone's eligibilty for SFAS then it is best to ring the orgnaisers or write with a name and address and they will look into it. They have 50 odd competitors for some classes - impossible for them to police it thoroughly so they must rely on the general public to do some of the checking for them. They did disqualify two people this year for cheating so they must take complaints seriously. |
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Post by Cefn farm Horses on Oct 19, 2007 22:12:01 GMT
The SFAS launched my showing career and my experiences with SEIB have been good - take it up with them.
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hpak
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Post by hpak on Oct 20, 2007 0:07:47 GMT
I wouldn't bother if I were you. The horses that went through at one of the qualifiers this year were unbelievable. The show pony behaved dispicably, although a youngster, it still should not have qualified. The hack that qualified on a second threw the rider in the lap of honour and should have been stripped of it's qualification, especially as it took at least five minutes to catch the bucking horse! Give it a miss I say it's still as fixed as showing itself.
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elmo
Newbie
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Post by elmo on Oct 20, 2007 11:20:35 GMT
I do feel that SFAS is not being policed properly there is also someone that has qualified a cob that owns a horse that previously won its class at HOYS!!! how did this slip through the net? As you say it is a good stepping stone but I do feel that the organisers need to be more rigourous with checkign out competitor details These people DID NOT break any rules. They bought the horse this season and did NOT take it to hoys themselves. Therefore just because they own it they can still do SFAS on their cob. The rules are very clear on this and there is nothing in them to say you can't own a horse who once went to HOYS with someone else! If you have a concern regarding someone's eligibilty for SFAS then it is best to ring the orgnaisers or write with a name and address and they will look into it. They have 50 odd competitors for some classes - impossible for them to police it thoroughly so they must rely on the general public to do some of the checking for them. They did disqualify two people this year for cheating so they must take complaints seriously. when we were at HOYS we asked SEIB sec what the rules were as a young girl we know qualified a pony several years ago,and wanted to take a new Horse,so thinking she would be now classed as a senior this would be OK... and the answer is No.. IF you , your horse have been to HOYS in the last 10yrs either with sfas or a prof It can not and you can not GO.... it's my opinion that RO AND Co. should give this section up,Why choice 10 people in each group,from ever where,to go to HOYS, just to slag them off,infront of everyone..and to tell someone sorry but you were my winner and because your horse hasn't behaved you can't have it,then to give it too her and then strip her of it straight away and make a complete ar$e of the whole situation.. And then give Lynn Russell her placing when her horse was just as BAD........ |
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Post by fmm on Oct 20, 2007 17:43:11 GMT
I think that what this means is the person having owned or ridden a horse when it actually competed at HOYS since 1997. I do not believe it means that if you bought a horse that competed at HOYS before you bought it (providing, of course, that it is not that horse you are doing SFAS on).
The reason for this is that anyone could buy an older horse, perhaps even retired from showing, that has competed at RIHS or HOYS.
Possibly not well worded, and is open to a variety of interpretations.
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Post by ferret on Oct 23, 2007 21:55:49 GMT
The hack that qualified on a second threw the rider in the lap of honour and should have been stripped of it's qualification, especially as it took at least five minutes to catch the bucking horse! Give it a miss I say it's still as fixed as showing itself. i saw that too , and was surprised that the qual stayed , although it was after the rosettes had been given out |
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Post by smallbutmighty on Oct 31, 2007 12:36:59 GMT
The hack that qualified on a second threw the rider in the lap of honour and should have been stripped of it's qualification, especially as it took at least five minutes to catch the bucking horse! Give it a miss I say it's still as fixed as showing itself. i saw that too , and was surprised that the qual stayed , although it was after the rosettes had been given out Once a horse has received it's rosettes and been 'dismissed' by the judge (this usually means at the point they are released for lap of lap of honour), the class is over, so anything that happens afterwards is not relevant to the results. That is what happens in normal (non-SFAS) classes too so I am surprised anyone expects a result to have been changed/qualification removed in the circumstance described? |
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dpl
Junior Member
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Post by dpl on Nov 1, 2007 15:13:13 GMT
Too d**n true! Having read those it now appears that because I am a P(UK) judge for RP/SHP and M &M, I cant compete my coloured cob in SFAS. Thanks a bunch SFAS! I could understand (though not necessarily agree on the grounds of irelevance) if I was going to compete in a section I was registered to judge for, but these are totally different! Or is the inference there that the descision may be affected if...... ?
I have never competed at HOYS, Olympia or any thing like that and have not done ridden cob classes ever before getting my boy in July and in fact havent ridden in the show ring for over 6 years due to health restrictions - yet it appears I am exempt from entry!
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Post by visitor on Nov 1, 2007 18:44:13 GMT
Can anyone help me out as i've had no luck with SFAS, i'm looking at doing the q's next season but want to know what they define as a riding club horse and whats required. Also can you enter 2 classes as she is a riding horse but a coloured so not sure if its worth me doing the ridding horse or the riding club?
Also have a hunter coloured just wonder how well the coloureds have done in the past?
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Post by sbm on Nov 2, 2007 12:46:30 GMT
I think you can enter two different sections, but you'd only be able to do one at the final.
RC horse is a misnomer as there is no such high level/affiliated (HOYS class) so I find it bizarre that they include it, as for all the other sections an animal could in theory go on and do Open classes but for RC horse they can't!
Seem to get a mishmash of types (and sizes) and IMO this years's winner was rather TOO showy for this section, though it was a nice horse. Most are LW Hunter or RH types, perhaps with a bit more substance, and fairly workmanline. Should be mannerly, obedienet, and able to jumps (though not whole course in qualifiers of Final).
This year hey didn't go round as a group in the Finals which was crazy, just got ridden by judge (I think?), did an individual show inc 2 jumps, and run up in hand. I don't know what they did at qualifying runds.
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Post by magpie on Nov 8, 2007 13:55:50 GMT
i think that thye should add a section for m n m's because these are getting very poopular, but it is with increasing difficulty to qualify for hoys/olympia etc!!! i think they would get a lot of support if they added this section as would love the chance to ride at hoys!!! x  |
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jilly
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Post by jilly on Nov 19, 2007 8:25:38 GMT
if you look back at i think the first search for a star it was won by an mand m perhaps that is why they omit them now !
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Post by doodah on Nov 19, 2007 19:27:11 GMT
i definately think classes for m&ms would be a good idea, and i'm not biased because i don't have any. It's just that they are becoming even more popular, look at the BSPS heritage championships.
Also, the SFAS classes would be good as many producers are gong into the natives instead of sticking with sps ans SHPs, so the amaters need a chance
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Post by ferret on Nov 19, 2007 22:34:28 GMT
yes an M and M did win the first one , i think it was Desarbe street fighter ? No idea why they stopped it ...maybe cos non of the judges seem to have anything to do with M and M s as far as i know  |
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Post by flashthecash on Nov 26, 2007 19:01:26 GMT
I suppose I was one of the lucky ones.. I went to the second year on a M&M. sadly only the First place went to the final.. I was second  and it wasn't at HOYS but at the Royal. So many years ago! |
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Post by nitelife on Nov 26, 2007 22:02:21 GMT
Perhaps we should all email sfas and ask them about holding mm qualifiers?
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and it wasn't at HOYS but at the Royal. So many years ago!