samr
Junior Member
Posts: 151
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Post by samr on Dec 9, 2006 19:35:36 GMT
After reading Horse and Hound i was pleased to see an article on wilkies.I love these bits for young children especially while they are learning to ride properly.I know a lot of people who do not like them but they were originally made for a lead rein pony and do not cause a nut cracker action like a normal eggbutt snaffle.Please let me know your views..........
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Post by Gags on Dec 9, 2006 19:42:00 GMT
Its a gag, plain and simple.
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Post by frankie9 on Dec 9, 2006 19:46:42 GMT
Do you not think it is better for a pony to have a bit of poll pressure than being jerked in the mouth continuously............I also liked the H&H article.
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Post by KK on Dec 9, 2006 19:49:38 GMT
I think Wilkies do have there place in the horse world - but for lead rein and 1st ridden - as they do give kids the extra help they do need - but i HATE them in novice classes - WHY does a novice need to be ridden in a gag - i use KK bits from the start - not saying they are the be all and end all - but they do work well for me. Wilkies are v v thin - hence strong in the mouth - FACT not many natives can take a snaffle - their mouths arent big enough - as their toungues are thick - and why does a novice need to the gag action a wilkie gives - no1 can dispute that - they ARE a QUICK FIX at the end of the day - I think they have a place but NEVER in my ponies mouth  |
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Post by georgie777 on Dec 9, 2006 19:54:05 GMT
If the wilkie was a gag it would be called a wilkie gag.......not a wilkie snaffle!!!!!Also i agree that there is no shortcut for correct schooling BUT it is a good bit for children i do not see any reason why they should not be used in novice classes.
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Post by Get your facts on Dec 9, 2006 20:17:16 GMT
Get your facts straight KK, First of all, you can have any mouthpeice with a wilki, we have had a sweet iron french link.....so not thin and sevre..... You have contradictied yourself left right and centre, you have said they are gags and are suitable for lead rein....  ?? You have said they are thin, and natives have fleshy mouths ........surley a slightly thinner bit would be more comfortable in a horse with a flshy mouth, rather then a thick egg but snaffel. You dont think a nut cracker action of normal snaffel is sevre? hitting the pony in the roof of the mouth?? I personally think there is not much difference between a wilki and a hanging cheek..............both can have a variety of mouthpieces making them suitable for a variety of horses. They are not gags and are not quick fixes. I would much rather see a novice in a wilki then a double/pelham....... I personally am a fan of the wilki I have a few section C ponies, with pony heads and the wilkies look very smart fom the outside, and for the mouthpice I have a combination of sweet iron and copper mouthpieces.................hardly sevre |
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kk
Newbie
Posts: 26
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Post by kk on Dec 9, 2006 20:48:42 GMT
I think you mean SNAFFLE - i have never heard of a SNAFFEL??? - and get my facts straight - '' Wilkie SNAFFLE debate'' - hence snaffle - not french link etc - and how the hell can a hang cheek be near as - its fixed - hence the sides cant move - so there is nowhere near as much leverage - I will agree they are slightly better than a pelham etc for novices - but not much better - and ''a bit is only as harsh as its rider'' I was only commenting as asked - if you want to get into a cat fight you are on you own  |
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Post by essendy on Dec 9, 2006 21:34:48 GMT
KK you say that you are happy that the wilkie should be in a 1st ridden but not a novice.Waht is the diffrence.What if the jockey is small on a novice small breed are they not allowed to have any control just because they are on a babay.The 1st ridden could also be a novice but it is ok for it.
I like the wilkie.I have a the moment a hyper novice mare who after many bit changes is only happy in the wilkie happy mouth.And please dont jump down my throat and say it is a quick fix.It is the only snaffle she doesnt get her tongue over the bit.And if I could I would show her in a hackamore as it is apparent that she hates any pressure on her lips.
I would personally like to burn all single jointed snaffles as they are one of the nastest bits in the hands of a novice rider.
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Post by wilkiefan on Dec 9, 2006 22:14:30 GMT
The wilkie gives a mild poll action - the same as a hanging cheek.
I think that the wilkie has the edge as it gives that little bit more leverage than what the hanging cheek does.
It's no worse than a myler that has slots in the cheeks.
A wilkie can make the diffrence between a child controlling a pony rather than the pony controlling the child - I know what I would prefer to see.
It is asbsolutley not a gag!!
A gag lifts the head and does not lower it!!!!.
3 ring bits (et al) should never be classed as gags as they all lower the head - the complete oppossite to what a gag does - so the wilkie is defintley not a gag as it lowers the head with the mild poll action.
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Post by sarah1 on Dec 9, 2006 22:54:10 GMT
- and get my facts straight - '' Wilkie SNAFFLE debate'' - hence snaffle - not french link etc - a french link is still a snaffle if on a snaffle style cheek!  The point is, that when you pull on the reins of a normal snaffle, there is a nut cracker action in the mouth. If you pull on the reins of a wilkie, some pressure is transferred to the rotating of the cheek and hence poll pressure, thus reducing the amount of nutcracker action in the mouth. So it's your choice really - which would you prefer, harsher in the mouth or harsher in the poll? I do agree that adults shouldn't have the need for them and it is and excuse for having harsher hands, however i do see their advantage in the mouths of ponies who carry small, novice children |
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Post by Wilkie lover on Dec 9, 2006 23:21:12 GMT
KK if i am on the right track kk bits are just far too expensive for a lot of people
Wilkies are great little bits, they come in THREE thicknesses
For my novices i always use the Wilkie Happy Mouth
thereafter i use the thick metal one,
Yes i agree they do make one that is quite fine and i would think it too sharp for a thick fleshy tongue
Great to have a nice thick snaffle that acts on the poll to help kids keep control....better that than have a bit without a poll action that bares all the pressure on the bars of the mouth i think
I can not see what the fuss is about ...apart from some being stuck in the past and dont like change
why havent we seen the same fuss about the hanging cheek snaffle - its no different
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Post by natmidd on Dec 10, 2006 17:50:20 GMT
I used a wilkie snaffle on my C this season the reason being that he could be a bit spooky and drop his shoulder when he felt like it. With the wilkie he just had a bit more respect for me and concentrated on his job. That was the only reason, he wasn't strong or he didn't lean. He went better in that than any other snaffle so I don't see the harm in them. After all showing is about your pony/horse going well as well as conformation!
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Post by bignono on Dec 10, 2006 18:23:47 GMT
I think wilkies can be 'ok' in experienced hands, but should never be used simply to haul on the ponies mouth and poll. No lead rein or first ridden rider is capable of understanding how the bit works. Why don't parents teach their children how to ride properly and get their ponies going in a true outline rather than looking for shortcuts and forcing both pony and rider. If a pony is not capable of being ridden quietly in a 'true' snaffle then it is in my opinion not a LR/FR pony and should not be labeled as such.
As for the stupid comment that if they were a gag they would be called as such, there are people getting paid to promote items with view to selling as much of a product as possible. I doubt the wilkie would have proved half as popular if they had decided to name it a gag.
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Post by peed off on Dec 10, 2006 19:15:20 GMT
if a pony is happy and comfortable with a wilkie bit then what is the problem? i would much rather see a pony happy in its mouth whatever the bit being used. different bits suit different ponies, and i dont think its right to knock them.
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Post by Guestless on Dec 10, 2006 20:10:18 GMT
if a pony is happy and comfortable with a wilkie bit then what is the problem? i would much rather see a pony happy in its mouth whatever the bit being used. different bits suit different ponies, and i dont think its right to knock them. I think that is a fair comment for novice and open classes, but for me I would have to question the suitability of a pony to be in a LR or FR class if it requires a wilki as opposed to a more straightforward snaffle. |
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Post by just a thought on Dec 10, 2006 20:38:09 GMT
how is it you can use a wilkie snaffle/gag in bsps and nps novices etc, but presumably not a sweet iron tom thumb gag? they both work similarly.
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Post by bits on Dec 10, 2006 21:05:13 GMT
in response to kk. not all of us have money falling out of our ears and a wilkie bit is affordable compared to your fancy kk bits, also i think it is slightly petty your crtisising somebody for their spelling a mistake people make were not all perfect like thou!
compare a wilkie to a dutch 3 ring gag and a leather cheek gag not really very servere now is it? i feel a wilkie was a great contribution to the showing world by peter wilkinson and belongs in the snaffle family
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Post by AWD on Dec 10, 2006 21:18:42 GMT
not when it's used as the bridoon on a double bridle. This SHOULD be banned.
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Post by Cull me now on Dec 10, 2006 21:41:32 GMT
well i'm afraid i am going to have to be culled (sorry if i've spelt that wrong kk but hope you can grasp the meaning) by the wilkie hate clan.
I start all my novices in a wilkie, they all seem perfectly happy and go beautifully (well i think they do). We start off with the reins just on like a normal snaffle and then progress to them being on the ring. My ponies are not fixed in place and they move through from behind, unlike alot of aniamls in th ring forced down 'on the bit' with a pelham (this comment is just a general comment IN MY OPINON and is not aimed nastily at anyone) there is more to being 'on the bit' than having their heads tucked in neatly!
at the end of the day it comes down to the same old thing it is not the bit but the riders hands! Perhaps the wilkie hate clan she take a look at riders hands rather than the bit in the mouth, it is far from a pretty sight alot of the time, a quick saw to get a pony head tucked in is not the answer!! Anyway rant over and merry christmas to you all!
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Post by Wilkie lover on Dec 10, 2006 22:05:37 GMT
another thought please someone tell me where all these perfect L/R -F/R Ponies are for sale, you know the ones you say they only require the most gentle bit when ridden by tiny little riders, or ones that still go well and dont soon learn to pull in the ring with a novice child
I need to purchase at least two of them so please tell me where to buy them as i have been looking for a very long time.
I will be more than happy to swap my Wilkie in for a pony that doesnt take advantage
until that day thank god for P Wilkinson i say at least someone had the good sense to find a "bit"of middle ground when it comes to bitting a kids pony
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Post by i love wilkies on Dec 11, 2006 9:41:37 GMT
I have a friend who has a hoys lead rein pony he used to be ridden in an egg butt snaffle but soon he began to throw his head in dis-comfort.He saw a bit specialist who said the joint was pinching his tongue she suggested a myler which is a wilkie.Within two hours he went and won his class and has not thrown his head in pain again.....Also at a show he was placed last because the judge did not like wilkies even though he was the only pony going properly!!!
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Post by cake on Dec 11, 2006 21:24:34 GMT
A Myler is a completly different bit to a wilkie.
A Myler is not allowed in lead rein classes.
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Post by Another Fan on Dec 11, 2006 21:31:42 GMT
I have to add my thoughts on wilkies. I am a total fan of these bits and again have to disagree with KK that they are gags. My son is a very small eight year old who has been taught to ride at home without reins so he can't jab his pony in the mouth. He is however only four stone wringing wet, and I would love to know how he is supposed to get his very willing but rather slow FR pony to go on the bridle without the little bit of help from the wilkie. At the end of the day there is only a tiny bit of poll pressure from these bits and as others have said, surely that is better than a pony being hauled in the mouth with a traditional snaffle? I personally hate seeing FRs in globe pelhams - which we seem to see much more of these days - with tight curb chains. They are surely just like being ridden on only a weymouth - give me a wilkie any day!
P.S. I am a judge so don't come under me with a globe pelham any FR's!!!!
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Post by mwa on Dec 12, 2006 0:18:53 GMT
I think wilkies can be 'ok' in experienced hands, but should never be used simply to haul on the ponies mouth and poll. No lead rein or first ridden rider is capable of understanding how the bit works. Why don't parents teach their children how to ride properly and get their ponies going in a true outline rather than looking for shortcuts and forcing both pony and rider. If a pony is not capable of being ridden quietly in a 'true' snaffle then it is in my opinion not a LR/FR pony and should not be labeled as such. As for the stupid comment that if they were a gag they would be called as such, there are people getting paid to promote items with view to selling as much of a product as possible. I doubt the wilkie would have proved half as popular if they had decided to name it a gag. I completely agree! People nowadays seem to be spending less money on lessons and more on the newest tweed or accessory, first work on how the rider and pony is going together- find a pony that suits the rider and vice versa then pay for the icing on the cake! I can see where you are coming from with finding suitable LR/FR ponies... but i still think this is just a quick fix. In contradicting myself i can see why they are used on FR ponies... Not a fan of Wilkies on Novices at all! They do not work the same as hanging cheeks! Put in your homework in a 'proper' snaffle with a decent instructor and you might be amazed at the changes |
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Post by NotWilkieFan on Dec 12, 2006 6:28:14 GMT
It's no worse than a myler that has slots in the cheeks. It is completely different to a Myler. The Wilkie bit is fixed, a Myler has movement, and both side move independently. I tried a Wilkie once and hated it. I put it on Ebay and was shocked that it sold it for twice as much as it cost me new from Fylde, are people really that desperate for them! I tried a Myler too, didn't get on with that either. I use Neue Schule bits now, they come in a variety of mouthpieces and I have never looked back. They are fantastic bits and kind. Yes they are expensive but you can't put a price in a pony having a comfortable mouth. You can have them on a months trial too before buying which is really useful to find the right one. Having learnt as I've gone along with bitting I would never contemplate using a Wilkie again. |
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Post by Individual on Dec 12, 2006 9:12:11 GMT
At the end of the day ponies are individuals, what works and suits one pony many not suit another. I have had ponies who love the wilki, others hate it. I like what my horses like. I def think wilkis have thier place and to be honest I really dont see what all the fuss is about. Today you can get any bit made up, how many people actually see what is inside a horses mouth? What can appear to be a normal wilki or pelham on the outside can very easily not be what is in the horses mouth |
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Post by wilkiefan on Dec 12, 2006 19:57:33 GMT
NotWilkieFan,
I did not say that the wilkie and the myler were the same bit.
If you re - read what I said , I merley pointed out that a myler that has slots in the cheeks is no worse than a wilkie. still gives leverage.
And please stop calling the wilkie a gag. It is not a gag, the gag lifts in the mouth thus lifting the head, the wilkie does the opposite thus not a gag.
This is why i get annoyed when people call the 3 ring bit a gag. Its not!!
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Post by seriously on Dec 13, 2006 9:56:35 GMT
the wilkie puts MILD pressure on the poll, bearing in mind if the cheek pieces are fitted propperly,and comfortably.....not too tight. the pressure is actually quite gentle, and also the mouth is far more sensitive than the poll!! so thats why alot of ponies are happier in them, and also if this is SAFER for the CHILD then why not. i am a firm beleiver of SAFETY first when it comes to children. i really dont see the harm of them, dont make assumptions of how they work, have a real good think about it!!!! |
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Post by hello on Dec 13, 2006 18:56:24 GMT
What is a 3 ring bit called then? I think you"ll find its called a dutch GAG?
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Post by Wilkiefan on Dec 13, 2006 21:57:34 GMT
Hello
A 2 ring bit is only called a gag as thats the name its been given and used for many years.
A gag LIFTS in the mouth thus have a lifting effect (i.e. cheltnham gag)
A 3 ring bit is all about leverage and poll pressure - thus forcing the head down - so a completley diffrent action to the real gag.
A 3 ring bit or a bubble bit is basically a curb bit with no curb chain (although you could add one if desired).
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