Overweight ponies

[sallyw]

I have today seen an apparently succesful show hunter pony who is being given away. At eight years old and with a well known prefix you might wonder why? This pony has obviously been extremely gross. The poor thing is suffering the after effets of laminitis in that it is still footy on hard ground however the after effects of being so very gross make it a grotesque spectacle. There are strange lumps (presumeably of fat) distributed around in all sorts of unusual places. I guess they were the places hardest to shift the fat when the laminitis set in.
It might be possible to get this pony right - eventually BUT why let it get like that in the first place??? A well covered fit pony is what we want in the show ring not these bullocks. How about a new year campaign to disgrace these (well known) people who produce ponies like this?

[fatty]

The strange lumps of fat could be associated with insulin resistance (they are a tell tale sign of it) which would also cause laminitis. It may not be a straightforward case of laminitis.

[tj]

On the same subject, did anyone read the article in H&H this week (regarding overrugging and overfeeding) which blamed the showing community heavily for overweight horses and ponies?

What did you think? Is this problem getting better in showing or worse do you think?

[ummm]

To be honest, I think there is some problem with some horses being obese in showing. But I do think they are sometimes penalised, I noticed it was brought up in the olympia report which can only be a good thing. Perhaps that is an explanation for some being placed lower than people thought they should.
But I do feel the article is contains a slight contradiction. Mr Teasdale says that horses should be able to not wear rugs, given they have full thick coats etc, but in the same breath says all show horses are obese. Mine horses are all worked everyday and do several miles of very steep hill work in order to achieve good muscle, they have also done a little hunting (all flat show horses) so how on earth do I keep them this fit in order to keep off fat, but still let them have "full thick coats"

I also think he should take a look at the dressage arena in order to see some grossly fat horses rather than just digging at showing.

[Sometimes Unfair]

I agree that many of the ponies involved in showing are overweight, we seem to like seeing the fuller figured animal!!

I do however feel sometimes people with a poorer pony ( in standard not as in weight) complain that the higer placed ones are fatter.....it seems to be an excuse as to why there were placed lower.

My personal pet hate is fat youngsters, yearlings that look like 3 year olds and 3 year olds that look like 8 year olds. Immature youngsters ( ) are put down more often then not!

[I agree]

I definitely agree about the comment regarding youngstock in the show ring.

I have youngstock which I am hoping to show this year, they were born late May, early June. After seeing some of the foals at winter foal shows and yearlings shown last year, it appears that it order to be successful they need to look at least a year older than they actually are!

Presumably in order to achieve the 'mature' look, youngsters are 'pumped' full of food -which at such an early age must be incredibly damaging to their health in the long term?!

[Welsh]

I agree with a lot of whats been said, tbh the welsh crowd are the worst (generally) for over-producing and fattening youngstock to create some false image. Why the need to force youngstock like this? Its something I'll never understand.

[another fatty guest]

Welsh said:

I agree with a lot of whats been said, tbh the welsh crowd are the worst (generally) for over-producing and fattening youngstock to create some false image. Why the need to force youngstock like this? Its something I'll never understand.

'FATTY GUEST' it looks like no-one is listening to your comments, but i agree , the fatty lumps are likely to be excactly what you say, i get the feeling that the said producer is probably reading this............

[Pho3ni]

After being witness to the effects of laminitis on a horse, caused by simply being overweight, (ok in this case the horse was tremendously overweight) I’m very very careful with mine and watch their weight carefully.

We all know that horses do put weight on and lose it throughout the season, with the varying conditions grass richness, work done etc and I do not wish to annoy anyone with this comment now, but there isn’t any excuse for allowing a horse to become fat just to look older. I see it to be cruel and is just handing those horses a short life.

[sallyw]

Wow, I did unleash a lot of comments - its obviously a subject which needs talking about. The pony mentioned in the first post certainly is not well and the person looking after it now, will I am sure get the vet to her. I was interested in the youngstock comments. I showed my yearling just twice last year. On the second occasion we were told that he needed much more weight on him. I don't care a bit! He is well enough covered and is fit and lively. The winner could not even trot properly because of the fat over its shoulders. I wouldn't mind betting we never see that winner under saddle whereas my boy is heading for HOYS in 2009 (I hope!!). Come on judges - judge quality not quantity.

[chocoholic]

Sorry, but there are still far too many fat horses and ponies around. The judges should be unanimious in putting these animals down the line and telling the rider/handler why. As the NPS is supposed to be about animal welfare, perhaps offenders should be reported and persitant offenders looked into.

[ferret]

srm said:

Judges should be unanimious in putting these animals down the line and telling the rider/handler why.

I think that would be a fab idea ...it would certainly stop people over feeding ....can you imagine the embarrasment of being dumped at the bottom cos your pony is too fat and everyone knowing why ? !
Have heard recently about lots of show horses being given steroids to keep weight on ...this is the first i have ever heard about this and am horrified .....
Does anyone know more about this and how widely steroids are used ?? As steroids alone can have a side effect of bringing on Lami

[sallyw]

I know a very well known producer who gives ponies steroids and yes, it does bring on laminitis - where do you think these ponies go who win everything one year and then are never seen again. Their health and possibly their life are sacrificed for rosettes. I can't think of a single native pony which was competing against mine (now 21) who is still around. We have progressed to ridden veterans and never see anyone who we used to compete against. Are they all dead? Of course, they may be doing other things but I bet all lot of them are no longer with us. My boy has just galloped the length of an eight acre field to be brought in, he closely resembles a mud slick but he is as sound and healthy as the day he was winning big finals. He would't win (ridden m and ms etc) today he would not be carrying enough weight.

[weightyissue]

On the topic of steroids, it is common throughout showing, I was at a nw wpcs (not the nwawpcs) gala show some years back and asked a friend how they get them SO fat He told me then about the use of steroids for weight.
But the laminitis brought on by cortisone (not sure if it the same one they use for weight) is perhaps the most horrific type of laminitis, if the horse does contract it according to the top laminitis person around, you may aswell put him/her to sleep. It goes on for months if the horse is very unlucky.
The basic effect is that it comes on in a form similar to cushings as thehorse, mechanically induced, has too much cortisol hormone in the body, a symptom of cushings.

[weightyissue again]

I thought I would put some pics of what laminitis causes, just in case some people don't know...







hope they work. Is that how you want to see your horse

[ferret]

yes prob wouldnt win M and M now but he sounds like he was a fab pony in his day and at least he is alive and fit and well !! Good on you for keeping him in his ( show ring )retirement !!
The people giving steroids should be outed and their identities made public ...i know showing is a living to some ..but think this is a step too far .
I have owned a variety of types of show horses over the years and yes natives are easy to keep weight on ...( i have also had hacks and Riding horses too )but with good management and good quality feed , i cannot see a need for steroids ...??

[weightyissueagainagain]

Fao moderators;

Hope you don't mind me linking directly to those sites, I feel the is a particularly important issue, but nevertheless don't want and random weirdo's to be able to view my photobucket account

[kilty]

I also read the article in H&H and I have to say was rather put out by it. I fully accept that there a number of people in the showing world (both professional and amateur) who are under the impression that fat = show condition. Of course this is unhealthy for the animal, of course it doesn't set a good example for those new to showing and I fully agree that these people should be penalised for letting a horse in their care be kept like this.

HOWEVER.

I have worked on a professional yard on and off (around Uni etc) for the past 7 years - including the whole of last season - and continue to help out on the weekends and any holiday I have off work. We spend a great deal of time and effort getting the horses well muscled, with weight distributed evenly as befits the type it is. All of the horses go on long hacks, do a fair bit of schooling and go out in the field most days. Nothing is fed 'vast quantities' of food, but fed little and often. In fact, we even have several horses on diets at the moment as they are carrying too much weight. I have never sent a horse into the ring that is fat.

It is an ill-informed person that believes a fat horse looks the same as a horse in 'show condition' and I find it very upsetting when a person such as Mr Teasdale (sp?) who is in a position to get across a very important point in his column in H&H uses his lineage to make sweeping generalisations that cast aspersions upon the entire professional showing community.

Rant over! *Kilty steps down off her soapbox*

[natmidd]

I think this is a very good topic for discussion. I took my darty to a show when he was 2 and was pulled in 2nd to another 2 year old. I was dropped to 3rd and the 1st to 4th because the judge told us our ponies were too fat for their age. He instantly was cut down and looked better for it.

Also my old pony Desarbre streetfighter turns 20 this year and he still looks great and touch wood has never had lammy. I think a lot of it is to do with people not knowing enough about it and what causes it. The photos above should be enough to shock someone!!!

[essendy]

Nat its lovely to hear about Streetfighter.I remeber seeing him up at Gleneagles and thinking what a cracking old fashioned type of pony with plenty bone.And looking fit not fat.

[anti fat]

I took my darty to a show when he was 2 and was pulled in 2nd to another 2 year old. I was dropped to 3rd and the 1st to 4th because the judge told us our ponies were too fat for their age

I won a class where a stunning fell was put t the bottom of the line and bluntly told by the judge 'do not bring that horse in front of me again until it's lost weight'.

Good for the judge.

[Guestless]

I wish more judges were brave enough to put overweight ponies down the line. I remember stewarding at a show where the judge often commented about ponies needing a trip to Weight Watchers.....sadly her actions did not back this up and, more often than not, the ones she commented on were at the top of the line (and yes there were other decent ponies in most of the classes!)

[hmmm]

I was slagged off very loudly at one show (outside the ring I may add, they didnt have the guts to say anythig to my face) for placing a yearling last because it was gross and telling the handler exactly why!!!!!!!

[carrot]

Keep this all in perspective. Yes overweight ponies are a sorry sight but some fit ponies have wonderfully round backsides which are solid muscle. outr pony is ridden 5/6 times a week, hunted a couple of times amonth, shows and pony clubs inbetween these and his lessons and still we are told he is fat! He goes out for 2 hours a day, lives on shavings has one slice of hay and a scoop of hi fi lite with a carrot! yes we are mean for his health and fitness sake.

[me too]

Carrot me too. Pony worked for a minimum of a hour a day. minimal turnout on a bare (carpark) paddock and NO hardfeed yet still I cant get the weight off

[Guestless]

carrot said:

Keep this all in perspective. Yes overweight ponies are a sorry sight but some fit ponies have wonderfully round backsides which are solid muscle. outr pony is ridden 5/6 times a week, hunted a couple of times amonth, shows and pony clubs inbetween these and his lessons and still we are told he is fat! He goes out for 2 hours a day, lives on shavings has one slice of hay and a scoop of hi fi lite with a carrot! yes we are mean for his health and fitness sake.

Sadly if that is the case, then some judges need to learn the difference betweebn muscle and fat. Of course horses and ponies with good conformation that are worked properly will develop lovely, big round backsides and well covered shoulders, but they won't be all dimpled with fatty deposits

[Kickers]

Cellulite can be spotted a mile off. A good slap on the butt will prove whether its muscle ;D go for it judges.Pinch a bottom or two

[Pho3nix]

Kickers said:

Cellulite can be spotted a mile off. A good slap on the butt will prove whether its muscle ;D go for it judges.Pinch a bottom or two

I agree! i think the judges should be able to touch the horses if they wish. Fat feels soooo much different to a good solid muscle, and therefore the problem would be obvious. plus extra marks could be awarded for the quaility of the coat. not huge points but maybe 1 or 2 as one of my ponies has a coat as soft as my rabbit!!

[Philippa]

hmmm said:

I was slagged off very loudly at one show (outside the ring I may add, they didnt have the guts to say anythig to my face) for placing a yearling last because it was gross and telling the handler exactly why!!!!!!!

Hmmm - think I might have been at that show too!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

Would have been a very nice pony had it been rising 3!!!

[Fatty boom boom]

Having shown lots of youngsters over the years, I have found that some horses mature quicker then others, and look better, obviously they are individulas and everyone is different.

My youngsters if shown are out all day everyday and are in no way force fed. With the ones who are slower to mature are in no way a lower standard, in fact some of them are better, I have just made the decision to chuck them out and let nature take over, and wait until they are ready. It is obviously tempting to think ohh I could feed him on a bit but still...... I want my horses fit and healthy and well into their old age!!!!!

Many people who are considered gods in the showing world have given me lots of good advice...keeping horses on milk powder, or creep pellets to put on fat.....oops I mean show condition!


It is worth saying however that just becuase a horse does look well it dosent always mean that the pony has been pushed on.....some horses naturally have a ''fuller figure'' and I am sure if they were human would belong to some sort of slimming club!!!!!!