to clip or not to clip............

[clipornot]

please can anyone give advice (especially any judges) on clipping a section A, we would like to show this pony mid February but at the moment she resembles a mammoth!! we have clipped just up the front and under her belly in the past but her coat is so thick it makes her look deformed, and the clip line is usually still visible in June!! what are peoples view's on a full clip obviously leaving on the legs?? I know some judges are well against clipping all together........help please

[ferret not logged in]

if you are going to compete her seriously in opens then i would take it all off ( except legs obviously) to help the coat come thro evenly with no lines for the early qualifiers, depends on colour tho too .... greys / bays not too bad but you have to be careful with a dun / chestnut , they can sometimes look worse , dull and stary coated ! alot also depends on workload and lifestyle of pony too ....But if your gonna do it ..do it soon then you dont spoil her summer coat ! Good luck for 2007 !

[clipornot]

Thank you ferret for your advice, she is dapple Grey with a black mane and tail..........

[annoyed]

its bl***y winter animals are ment to have winter coats, how would you like to wonder round in your bikini now and just chuck a coat on to go outside. Im sorry but it makes me so cross people going against nature just so there pony looks pretty for the winter shows.

[ferret]

i think 'annoyed ' you have only read part of my post ...i also mentioned that it depends on the ponies lifestyle and work load too . I would rather rug and clip than have a sweaty hairy pony that gets cold and loses condition and is constantly uncomfortable when being exercised .

[clipornot]

To Annoyed..........

Take a chill pill !!!!!!!!!!!!, we are talking of the welfare of the pony not just what is acceptable in the ring, however, my welfare is also important, I am not sweating blood and tears through the cold winter months and going without the finer things in life so my pony gets the very best to be put down in the ring as she resembles a Mammoth!!!
At no point in my discussion did I mention leaving her bare skinned, my ponies wardrobe is better than mine, she has 7 turnout rugs in case of bad weather, so I never have to use a damp one twice as well as an array of various hoods and stable / wool rugs..............the only one thing missing is a bikini

I asked for opinions not insults

[kilty]

I'd go ahead and do a full clip, as Ferret suggested. I think that clipping is becoming far more accepted in the show ring, as evidenced by the number of ponies at Olympia that had been clipped. Also, the fact she is grey is a big advantage, as clips never show up as much on them. Go for it!

[ferret]

well said clipor not !! your rug array sounds like mine ! Think annoyed must have ...no horses or Tbs / warmbloods as is very hard to keep a native in work without any sort of clip !!!

I have a novice conni for next year so have just taken his front and belly off as he is only just back in work and am just doing some Nps ..BSPS novices , so i will prob have to battle with the coat in the spring . But he will be clipped out properly next year when things are more serious and he will be doing HOYS / RI quals .

[haha muppet]

annoyed said:

its bl***y winter animals are ment to have winter coats, how would you like to wonder round in your bikini now and just chuck a coat on to go outside. Im sorry but it makes me so cross people going against nature just so there pony looks pretty for the winter shows.

hahahahaha dum ass, how would u like it being ridden about with some1 on ur back and sweating like a pig (yes i know pigs dont sweat) and having your hair all covered in sweat?? a nice half clip doesn't bother them at all! get over it, jeeez

[annoyed]

ferret- yes i agree but the question was not involving work load it was woolyness for a SHOW in feb. and yes i do have natives i have a stud full of lovely little welsh A's, who go to shows in the winter in there natural state and do very well, coz its quality and not quanity that the judge takes into count, then when they start to lose there coats in spring good brushing does the trick in removing this. Yes it is possible to work them without clipping them.
more ponies are these days being clipped, along with being overweight, and not being shown and breed to their breed standards, and thats why the showing world has now gone to pot and as on another thread people weren't very impressed by them being clipped.

[skint]

Hiya all, one of our ponies has a summer coat like a scraped carrot, but you have never seen a winter coat like it in your life. We tried hacking him out without clipping my daughter went round the block at 11.30 he still was not dry at 11.30 that night. That cannot be good for him, so we have him clipped fully off apart from his legs rug him up well and he thrives on it. I think it depends what pony you have and what work they are doing

[ferret]

annoyed - part of my preparation for a show involves working and schooling the pony as well as how the coat looks ( thus not wanting a very long thick coat to contend with ). Which is why i mentioned about work load and lifestyle !
I would not recommend anyone to clip out a pony purely for the way it will look if it is not in work or stood out in the cold all day !!
I personally think some sort of clip is totally acceptable on any horse in winter if it is in work as do alot of judgesand I dont see how this thread connects to overweight or not true to type ponies
Alot of the top ponies at olympia were clipped and are you saying these ponies have ' gone to pot '

[Guestless]

Just be careful - I'm sure there was a rumour circulating about a new rule that said M&Ms could not be re-clipped after 1st January. I haven't actually seen the rule in writing, but I haven't rejoined any of the societies yet so haven't seen the most recent rule books.

[stunned]

Annoyed your quote (Yes it is possible to work them without clipping them). How on gods earth can you correctly bring back into work a native without clipping it, i can not for the life of me work out how you correctly work them. The mentality of some people astounds me. Put a ski suit on go to the gym do 40 minute workout then stay in the same clothes . Clip it for its own well being.

[heardittoo]

guestless said:

Just be careful - I'm sure there was a rumour circulating about a new rule that said M&Ms could not be re-clipped after 1st January. I haven't actually seen the rule in writing, but I haven't rejoined any of the societies yet so haven't seen the most recent rule books.

I have heard this too and also that pulling manes and shortening/thinning tails too much on natives will be penalised too and judges should be putting them down the line. I am all for this rule and I hope it is true and that judges stick to it. I get fed up of going to shows in March/April and standing below ponies that have very obviously been very recently clipped out. Why are they being clipped at that time of year?

I do think that the mane pulling has been way overdone for so long. Sec Bs with manes pulled so short that you need a magnifying glass to find them and pulled tails, also I've seen New Forests like that too 'up North' It's about time all natives were shown naturally like the Fells, Dales, Shetlands and Highlands generally are.

[WELL]

HHTGPDCWell i have two welshies in ridden work neither of who have been nor will be clipped. Both get a little warm when worked but surely thats what we invented thermatex rugs for!!!!!!!! Unless a pony is hunting I NEVER clip, It is possible to maintain a work schedule in this way. Mine have bboth had 2 motnhs off and are recently back in work and coping well.

[woof]

Oh Help you've all got me worried now, just bought a super Darty for my eldest and he came with a trace clip as he goes hunting and all the necessary fitness work, we are still hunting him much to the delight of my eldest who is hooked!! What should i do next, do i leave the trace clip and hope no lines in the summer or take it all off, we will hope to start workers in late Jan, as for all the above posts i think welfare is the bigger issue our pony could not do a full day hunting with full hair it would be cruel, he still gets hot and he does not even get as hairy as most.

[freetoclip]

I clip my welshies.The latest who until this winter lived out in full winter coat.I have attempted to ride her unclipped but she got so itchy that she stood and bit herself till the skin bled.She is now a happier pony with a hunter clip and the itching is all gone.
If any judge asks me why she is clipped I will not hesitate to tell them that it was for the welfare of the pony.

[TallyHo]

woof said:

Oh Help you've all got me worried now, just bought a super Darty for my eldest and he came with a trace clip as he goes hunting and all the necessary fitness work, we are still hunting him much to the delight of my eldest who is hooked!! What should i do next, do i leave the trace clip and hope no lines in the summer or take it all off, we will hope to start workers in late Jan, as for all the above posts i think welfare is the bigger issue our pony could not do a full day hunting with full hair it would be cruel, he still gets hot and he does not even get as hairy as most.

Quite right Woof. We do not show M&M's but we certainly wouldn't work anything in winter without some sort of haircut. Glad your children enjoy their hunting, we took two of ours autumn hunting a week before their HOYS outing and they have been letting their hair down this winter following hounds. A great sweetener for the ponies and the riders swear that there is nothing quite as exciting (except perhaps winning HOYS!)

[Guestless]

freetoclip said:

If any judge asks me why she is clipped I will not hesitate to tell them that it was for the welfare of the pony.

IF (and that is still to be confirmed) I don't think any judge will ask you why you clipped your pony UNLESS it is obvious that you have done it after 1st January. AFAIK showing societies and breed society (including the Exmoor at last) are saying it is fine to clip for welfare reasons. IMO the alleged new rule is to ensure the summer coats are not affected by clipping too late.

I'm not sure how a judge will know if a pony was clipped in December or January but I guess it remains to be seen (a) if it is an actual rule in the first place and (b) whether judges will take any notice.

[Pho3nix]

annoyed said:

ferret- yes i agree but the question was not involving work load it was woolyness for a SHOW in feb. and yes i do have natives i have a stud full of lovely little welsh A's, who go to shows in the winter in there natural state and do very well, coz its quality and not quanity that the judge takes into count, then when they start to lose there coats in spring good brushing does the trick in removing this. Yes it is possible to work them without clipping them.
more ponies are these days being clipped, along with being overweight, and not being shown and breed to their breed standards, and thats why the showing world has now gone to pot and as on another thread people weren't very impressed by them being clipped.

I think you will also find that within the first 5 words of the original post it also includes the word ADVICE which is what ferret offered giving a fuller picture, which included the lifestyle of the pony and workload to think about when clipping.

[sallyw]

Wow, what controversy. I have three natives showing in winter things. One hsa no clip becasue she never has any more than a fine down in winter and as a lead rein it helps if she has a bit of covering standing around in a long class. One has a trace clip (from stifle diagonally across body underneath neck). She has never been put down in a class for it. The last has a full clip except legs and in the past has competed at all big shows like this. The trace clipped one has a fairly fine coat and loses it early. I agree that a full clip is better for not getting lines. So - Clip according to the work load and natural coat. Try not to clip after about beginning of January as you may spoil summer coat and just take no notice of what people say about natives not being clipped. I do not believe I have ever been penalised for having a clipped pony.

[julie]

We have a Dartmoor who grew a coat so thick you would not believe how dense it was unless you saw him. We were training/competing dressage and doing the odd jumping work and he was really finding it hard work after 10 mins or so. For his sake we had it all taken off (bar legs) 1st week of December and its made such a difference to his working, he's so much happier in himself. Clip and rug up is my advice.

If you saw him today you would think we'd clipped him the day before so how is this new rule supposed to be enforced? I personally think welfare of pony ahead of everything else!

[Philippa]

I used to clip my section A stallions in December, just from between front legs up neck and head completely off. It was purely cosmetic as the coats came through much better the following season!!!
I clip my PB stallion in November and then he isn't done again. He has nearly got a summer coat now and has only a fleece and a top rug on.

Each to their own I say.

[Guestless]

julie said:

If you saw him today you would think we'd clipped him the day before so how is this new rule supposed to be enforced? I personally think welfare of pony ahead of everything else!

That's my concern too. I clipped 2 of my Fells first week in December and one of them has had barely noticable regrowth since. I clipped him in January last year and it was June before his summer coat was properly through so if that pattern continues, then it will be May this year

[sallyw]

I just thought about something to throw into this pot. I won a fairly big barren mare class last Spring with a mare who had started work in earnest for ridden but needed ring experience so she was shown in hand to this end. She was trace clipped. This was a Welsh medal show and no-one said anything.

[not sure]

Just thought i would ask what is all this about clipping before jan all about i have always has show ponies and recently bought a welsh D the D looks like a yetty but has not shed 1 hair as yet i have always been told that as long as you clip a horse before his coar breaks you cannot damage the winter coat so i am unsure what to do as i once had a 12-2 show pony that was clipped at Christmas but did not threw a coat until April apart from his neck so if i clip the D and he doesnt throw a coat until May he will look terrible he is black and will go a horrible grey colour i wnt to do the early winter qualifiers what should i do?

[not sure]

Sorry i meant summer coat not winter and i want to do the early RIHS qualifiers

[clipornot]

Thank you all for your advice and comments............the deed is done clipped all off except the legs, I now have a very happy section A who no longer takes 12 hours to dry after being worked, and is no longer scraping up the stable wall as she was so itchy!!! she looks amazing and her dark dapples are still very visible, she has had a warm aloe Vera / tea tree bath and was easily towel dried, wish now I had clipped her 2 months ago instead of battling the mud and sweat. She is currently wrapped up in her supreme products Lycra all in one body, cotton sheet, wool stable rug and masta top rug.(didn't have a bikini ;D)

Will let you know how we get on at the show and if we are penalised

[Philippa]

Good on ya, now wait for a fab summer coat coming through.