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Post by proclins stud on Feb 1, 2011 17:45:47 GMT
to me it sounds like that is lils intention , to tell you the truth i dont think it has anything to do with anybody else what stud fees people decide to charge !
i dont see why people have to be so horrible towards other people on here ,ive seen it alot lately ! NOT NICE !!!
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angrovestud
Junior Member
www.angrovestud.com tel 01642 724 860 hkitching@btconnect.com
Posts: 123
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Post by angrovestud on Feb 1, 2011 18:08:32 GMT
when you use a Homoygous stallion you are in fact reducing the number of foals being bred that are not coloured, and not the desired colour ! as we stand coloured stallion people would not be using any of us, if they were not coloured , the breeder has the guarentee of the foal being what they want! which after all is what the market is demanding we will all be driven by this as they are in the US.
we are very lucky all our foals sell whether coloured or not, but if you can have steak for the same price as a brisket you will choose steak everytime.
The problem comes when Homozygous Tobiano is more important than quality of Stallion, the market will sort the wheat from the chaff!
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Post by lils on Feb 1, 2011 22:20:33 GMT
lils are you saying my foals are inferior now i dont know who your foals are by, so how and where have i stated such a thing? please take the time to read the whole thread, which is about breeding/overbreeding, stud fees  that is a very valid point,esp in the arguement re numbers being bred, but what about the numbers of welsh ponies being bred, so sad modified for spelling ( something sticky under certain buttons!!) |
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Feb 2, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
I don't think you can point the finger at the Welsh - or any other breed/type/colour - at the moment, there are just far too many animals around for the current demand, simple as that.
Angrovestud - I agree with the first part of your last remark, but surely it should be the responsibility of stallion owners to stand only homozygous stallions that are top class in the first place, then there would be less chaff to sort from the wheat! Homozygous tobiano stallions may be what the market demands but many novice mare owners are incapable of choosing suitable stallions for their mares in terms of type and conformation anyway. Just to make it clear, I don't know you or what you stand at all so this is in no way personal, I'm not in the coloured world.
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Post by Guestless on Feb 2, 2011 11:10:09 GMT
When I breed from my coloured mare in the future, I will be looking for a homozygous stallion to guarantee a coloured foal. That doesn't meant I am necessarily putting colour before conformation - more I am thinking of the future purpose for the foal.
My mare is a native type and therefore does coloured classes for traditional/native/cobs. If she were a solid colour (her mum was black), then she would have no use in the show ring, and that is my preferred discipline. It stands to reason that I would therefore wish to breed something that I have a use for. That doesn't mean I would use a poor homozygous stallion; I still want to breed the best possible foal.
With regard to the stud fee cost discussion, I think that is relative. It's logical IMO that breeds that sell for a lower amount will likely cost less to breed. Yes there are too many of some breeds being bred, but this is not always the case. I think keeping the stud fee low will encourage those with rarer breeds (particularly those with important bloodlines) to keep their lines going.....not always a bad thing IMO.
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mpc
Junior Member
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Post by mpc on Feb 2, 2011 11:45:23 GMT
The problem comes when Homozygous Tobiano is more important than quality of Stallion, the market will sort the wheat from the chaff! Agree!! |
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angrovestud
Junior Member
www.angrovestud.com tel 01642 724 860 hkitching@btconnect.com
Posts: 123
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Post by angrovestud on Feb 2, 2011 15:39:55 GMT
I am Afraid I can only talk from my own experiances, I am no longer any part of the current coloured showing scene thank god! gave that up in 1998 having been involved since inception I dislike the current trends its taken up with, I love proper natives but I do not like gyspy cobs I have never been a fan and they are vastly over produced and people with just money on there minds are over producing them.
they sell cheap and its not an area I would ever wish to get involved in there are so many better things to do then breed whats everybody and his dog is breeding and i will leave it at that but to say before i get kicked off here that if there were no classes at Hoys they would not be so popular.
when Chaps was orginally invented it was not to promote cobs but to improve sports and performance horses & Ponies.
This is why I am breeding racehorses & Eventers.
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Post by Guestless on Feb 2, 2011 16:56:59 GMT
before i get kicked off here that if there were no classes at Hoys they would not be so popular. You won't get kicked off here for expressing your opinion - it's just as valid as everyone else's.  |
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Post by holiday on Feb 3, 2011 9:01:48 GMT
I have been reading this thread with interest. From a personal point of view we use graded/proven mares and choose graded/licensed stallions, however many are young stallions. We also use AI more than natural service, and import a lot of semen from Germany. This is because for the majority of ponies we are producing (for me personally) are "sports ponies" not showing stock and I feel the stallions who can throw this stock are abroad, or hugely limited in this country.
It wouldnt matter to me whether a stud fee was £50 or £1000 if it was the stallion that complimented my mare and would give me the result I was aiming for.
I can also appreciate people using homozygous stallions to breed a foal for colour, I would be the first to say I have done this. For this season I have used a homozygous stallion on a coloured mare with the hope to breed a homozygous filly (yes I know the percentages are great to achieve this) as this to me would be the optimum breeding mare as I could go to any stallion that hugely complimented my mare and breed for perfection AND colour!!!!!
I personally have used young and unproven stallions, Bathleyhills Monet was the result of a young unproven stallion, who has proved his worth being highest placed Sports Pony Yearling through the BEF 2010 and Champion SPSS Premium Show. However I choose a stallion who I feel will be promoted and competed with a good chance of success from where he is standing. I do my homework on both the stallion and the stud, and to be honest if the stud fee is less it is a bonus plus if my gut instinct pays off I have foals ahead of the game.
However going back to the original point of the thread I am not a hobby breeder with one mare. I understand the pitfalls and the dangers of indescrimate breeding and do not look through rose coloured glasses at any of our stock.
This is where you find your problems come in. Mare owners do not realise the costs do not stop at the stud fee, but also often want to breed with their once in a life time mare for alsorts of reasons. They cannot look at their best friend and find faults they look at the stallions and decide if they are "pretty" or beautiful, the right colour and not with the decision that this particular one will actually not suit the mare. This will not stop whatever stud fees are set at.
I personally would suggest a different stallion that maybe would compliment their mare and give my reasons for this. To be fair the majority of mare owners that we have visit are very sensible in what they decide.
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Post by slj on Feb 3, 2011 16:29:19 GMT
but do you not think if the stud fee is less of a throwaway amount, people might think twice about putting a mare in foal? which is the point im trying to make! No.........especially if they are only allowing 2 coverings to outside mares. This to me is the stallion owner being responsible regardless of what their studd fee is. It takes a good stallion owner to stick to their guns and also turn mares away, even if that means you get no outside mares in that season! Unlike 'some' studs I can think of. Also you say about ''stallions with stock on the ground that have reached rideable age and have done noteable'' This surely depend on who purchases the foals does it not. They might have just bought sweet cuddly foaly as a companion or just as a family pet or for their child, because of the foal and its dams temprement. Not everyone is lucky enough to get really good showing/competative homes for their stock  Some hobbt breeders get a thrill and a huge pleasure to breed the odd one/two/three foals a year, knowing that they have bred a lovely horse/pony and that it has had good training and handling from an early age for the then new owner to build on and the new owner be content that their new horse or pony has had the best possible start in life. I know of one little stallion that has been mentioned on here and on looking at their website, he has covered some very nice ponies with full pedigree and some good bloodlines in there. And nothing in excess either only limited mares from the looks of things. Surely this is better getting 4 foals of nice quality and with the desired 'colour pattern' than breeding 8 foals of which only 1 or 2 are the desired wanted 'coloured' ? On reading some other posts not in this thread I see one stud owner had all fillies of which they said she would keep a couple to start as their foundation stock.....  But because they got more fillies than was expected they only covered a couple of their mares otherwise they would end up over run with little fillies LOL ;D (sods law) Very sensible of the stud not to re-cover the mares just to get more. Its knowing when to stop and when to turn clients away that is responsible ( IMO) not the price of the stud fee. There is a stallion on an internet website in the stallion section that still dweles on one of its offspring winning something.....this was quite some years ago now. No-one seems to mind this stallion not been graded  and its stud fee is more than £100 ? Wouldnt mind but what it won it shouldnt have even been allowed in the class due to the stallion not being graded, but apart from its owners and a few 'others' I dont think anyone apart from me realised!!!! (or did they all turn a blind eye!!!!) |
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Post by ffynnoncadno on Feb 11, 2011 21:15:07 GMT
I'm sorry,but I just don't agree with the grading system call me what you like but I've seen some really good quality,true to type horses not pass and then see a total disaster get the full grading and evesdrop the vets arguing with the inspectors that the horse was inferior I think there should be licensing and vetting but it seems very political when it comes to grading and I just go now hoping for my grade 2's as my face don't fit |
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Post by amanda on Feb 11, 2011 22:20:06 GMT
i see a lot of peathingy(whoops sorrysaid the c word spell check kicked in) posturing among stallion owners at this time of year , ive also been a groom to irish draught , bwbs, and aes gradings with various charges some who graded some who did not, i for the life of me cannot comprehend why some owners put forward stallions with obvious faults albeit with flash movement and a good loose jump. and at the other end of the scale have been in the attendance of some (we took on behalf of owners) who we couldnt believe had actually passed!! graded is subjecitve let each mare owner make a choice , as some posts imply not all mare owners are idiots we actually do make informed choices as to the sire used, graded (?) or otherwise.
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Some hobbt breeders get a thrill and a huge pleasure to breed the odd one/two/three foals a year, knowing that they have bred a lovely horse/pony and that it has had good training and handling from an early age for the then new owner to build on and the new owner be content that their new horse or pony has had the best possible start in life.
But because they got more fillies than was expected they only covered a couple of their mares otherwise they would end up over run with little fillies LOL ;D (sods law) 
and its stud fee is more than £100 
