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Post by JadeCannon on May 24, 2011 21:25:42 GMT
The DEFRA offices in Caernarfon are not aware of the situation apparently and Ive been told in no uncertain terms that they are not involved in horse welfare anyway, even in livestock welfare cases they have a problem getting vets to tell the RSPCA that an animal needs help or that the owner needs dealing with, so seemingly all wheels have to be oiled for anything to work in these instances. I for one have sent letters to Caroline something at DEFRA - so might not be that particular branch And i havent just sent one - ive sent them from me, mum, dad, sis etc etc - so they definitely know!
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Post by sjp on May 24, 2011 21:27:47 GMT
I, too, have been feeling increasingly uncomfortable with the way this was going and am glad the protest has been called off. I want to see welfare improve but don't want to be part of some secret society. I want the welfare of Welsh ponies to be improved by a rightminded and forward thinking WPCS. I can't really believe that members want to see the demise of our 110 year old Society? What we need are improvements within it, not to see it brought down, especially by people who may not even be members. I wish you all luck in your efforts for the Criccieth ponies and will watch with interest for your results, but like an increasing number of HG's I will find other ways to make known that I do not condone cruelty in any form.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on May 24, 2011 21:44:30 GMT
To be fair, I think the committee of people was only formed so that there could be some less public way of organising information in view of the alleged movement of ponies. And just because of the sheer volume of information and opinions, it needed to be sifted through and preserved somehow.
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Post by perfect on May 24, 2011 21:45:10 GMT
I am pleased the protest will not go ahead. Of course everyone has a right to protest but, the term is Innocent until proven guilty. It is going to be very hard to find the support and the rock solid evidence to prove guilt and I think we should appear whiter than white. It is not very peaceful to protest outside a person's house when they are, for the moment, an innocent. I too, like a lot of others, will bow out now but I shall continue to do what I can. "Innocent until proven guilty" What a term to use..... ive seen with my ,own eyes the state of his ponies, the way they are "kept". He is GUILTY,,,,, BUT as i said earlier on no one including the RSPCA WILL DO ANYTHING. Also his farmhouse is down a drive in the countryside.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on May 24, 2011 21:49:56 GMT
Well I wouldn't describe him as an innocent either. But, distasteful as it may seem, in the eyes of the law, that's what he is. The best way to bring about change, is to carry on lobbying all the authorities and societies, and to carry on gathering solid evidence.
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Post by pippard on May 25, 2011 6:36:00 GMT
Defra where told of this situation over a week ago and their reply was that complaints should to go to the local Trading Standards Office, which they did.
I still think members of the WPCS should be asking for an explanation as to why the Society Welfare Office did not take any action. He may, of course not have been at the sale representing the Society but on a private visit but then why was he not there officially surely attending official sales must be part of the job description and the same for he Society vet? So members write to the Council and ask.
Protest and petition the people who can act and change things, the RSPCA, your MP, the Welsh Assembly and why not bombard the Charity Commission with complaints that these animal welfare charities are not in this case taking action. Continue to bombard the press until someone take up the caudal and follows up the story. Good luck.
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Post by jinja on May 25, 2011 6:43:35 GMT
Do not agree he is innocent I want him prosecuted but my main concern is rescuing those poor ponies. IMO the way forward is to keep lobbying the media and getting as much evidence to prove what he has done and therefore we are more likely to get the RSPCA to act. I feel any situation were there are large groups of angry passionate people can end in violence, and speaking personally I feel both emotions.
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Post by stormyskies on May 25, 2011 7:34:29 GMT
I would imagine any evidence of those poor ponies is long long gone. I would imagine if the rspca went to the stud now they would find nothing. I have a friend currently down there to climb a mountain and she said its deserted and feeling in the village is generally in support of Mr Evans.
The combined efforts of hg, fb and many other sources may not have directly got the result we want, but what we have done is made the wider world more.aware. hopefully brightwells will think twice now before.putting an emaciated pony through. Hopefully Mr Evans may start to feed his ponies or disband completely. This guy was never going to be prosecuted. He got away with it for many years for a reason. He is clearly well protected with friends in high places.
What we need to do now is use what we have done to get the ball rolling to address over breeding. It seems some people aren't liking that a committee has been formed. Well does it matter as long as someone is doing something? You cannot run a campaign from a forum so at some point a group of people had to get organised in order for it not to look messy. There are many methods of campaigning and not everyone will agree with each method but that doesn't mean you discard it. I wasn't in agreement with the demo but could see the point of it with regard to media coverage. And as the saying for a, publicity is publicity whether good or bad.
I don't know who all the members are of the core committee are, but thank you for giving up your time to work on this tirelessly. Thank you to allthose who got in touch with evidence. And thank you to all those on hg who have spread the word, sent e mails and wrote letters. Every single one of us was touched by those pics and every single one of us should stand proud of the efforts we have made. Now isn't the time to bemoan others for their chosen method of protest. It's a time to applauded what're have done. Wherever those ponies may be now, be it grazing on a hillside of another stud or sleeping peacefully, they are no longer at the stud under horrific conditions and Mr Evans name and the criccieth prefix is now known to all. A fact that means I can now sleep a bit more peacefully at night.
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mpc
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Post by mpc on May 25, 2011 7:35:36 GMT
Sorry, I really am bowing out after this post... I'm sure that any protest or direct action, were it to happen, would fully support and endorse breeders such as Melyniog. If anyone does not understand that then the intentions of the proposed protest have not been made clear enough and communications could probably be improved. There has never been any intention of targeting ALL breeders. Far from it. As far as I know, there will be no protest at the sale. BUT, as a matter of democratic principle I feel bound to state most strongly that everyone has the right to peaceful protest in a public place, and the very nature of protest means that not everyone will support it. Making people feel bad for wanting to stand up and shout for what they believe in is in itself most undemocratic. The suggestion for a protest was not 'ridiculous talk'; it was a process of exploring one method, among many methods, of drawing attention to a very worthy cause. And no, the 'core' or whatever the short-hand is, has not disbanded. Again, if a group of committed, passionate and able individuals want to form themselves in to some sort of organisation, whether formal or informal, they have every right to do so. They do not claim to represent Horsegossip, this thread, or the people who have commented on this thread - at least, I don't think so. In due course, when some sort of structure is in place, I'm sure that everyone will have the opportunity to become a member, volunteer, supporter or whatever. It is from that level of commitment, from a small number of people, that charities and bodies are formed. Sorry, S&O, I don't want to sound like I'm having a rant or anything; your support is needed and valued as much as anyone else's on this issue. It's just that I feel really strongly about everyone being able to exercise their democtratic rights. Suffragets died so that you and I, as women, could have those rights. Sorry, I didn't even want to protest, but I do want to have the right to protest... And now I am definitely bowing out once and for all to pursue my silent campaign of letters. Great post!
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lfh1
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Post by lfh1 on May 25, 2011 7:49:09 GMT
A friend of mine told me tonight that she was at the Brightwells Sale today (at Malvern) and the sale was stopped for a few minutes for Terry Court to make an announcement. He said someone had been posting flyers and they would be caught and expelled and the police would be called. Terry Court apparently said there had been a lot of fuss about Criccieth stud from a load of funny people. It sounds as though calling welfare crusaders ‘funny people’ in public didn’t do him any favours. There were a lot of mumblings apparently. I think he’d have been better to keep quiet, but make of it what you will. I did have sympathy for Brightwells’ position, but now I’m not so sure.
xx
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on May 25, 2011 8:09:35 GMT
Good work guys, keep it up!!!
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Post by JadeCannon on May 25, 2011 10:35:05 GMT
Anyone get a copy of a leaflet- is it worth saving for others to also distribute??
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Post by stormyskies on May 25, 2011 10:40:18 GMT
I have been pondering this in my mind all morning as I mucked out re Terry Court stopping the sale. Surely he shouldn't be making statements condemning animal welfare campaigns. And that's what this has all been about - animal welfare!
Surely in the light of the photographic evidence of what was allowed through Bulith sale, Terry Court shouldn't be making public statements condemning welfare campaigns.
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Post by fayecary on May 25, 2011 10:41:03 GMT
just a thought..... rather than alienating terry court and brightwells, maybe it would have been a better tact if he was kept "on-side" he is "mr brightwells" afterall and he and brightwells would have been great allies in stopping entries in the future..from ANY stud/vendor with poor ponies but sadly, that course has been lost..unless a lot of bridge building is done?..and a little humble pie eaten.. the conditions of sale at Brecon/Segdemoor/Beaulieu Road have upped 4 fold in the last couple of years by working WITH the Auctioneers..not barating them and rubbing them up the wrong way. just my opinion of course...
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Post by stormyskies on May 25, 2011 10:48:55 GMT
I am probably being thick here - not the first time lol as I have very little knowledge of the wpcs, but is Terry Court the president of the wpcs as well as being high up in brightwells? Again apologies if this is way off mark.
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Post by JadeCannon on May 25, 2011 10:58:55 GMT
just a thought..... rather than alienating terry court and brightwells, maybe it would have been a better tact if he was kept "on-side" he is "mr brightwells" afterall and he and brightwells would have been great allies in stopping entries in the future..from ANY stud/vendor with poor ponies but sadly, that course has been lost..unless a lot of bridge building is done?..and a little humble pie eaten.. the conditions of sale at Brecon/Segdemoor/Beaulieu Road have upped 4 fold in the last couple of years by working WITH the Auctioneers..not barating them and rubbing them up the wrong way. just my opinion of course... That's why I think we need a copy of the leaflet - to see who it was aimed at??? Was it just a welfare leaflet and they distributed at the sale or was it an 'attack' on brightwells? Someone must have kept one???
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Post by kilnstown on May 25, 2011 10:59:48 GMT
TC was last years president, 2011 president is Kathleen James, I am sure I was not alone in feeling a little uncomfortable of his appointment as president of the WPCS for 2010 whilst he was still joint managing director of Brightwells, it just smacked as a conflict of interest to me, but thats another thread.
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Post by stormyskies on May 25, 2011 11:08:42 GMT
Crikey that does seem like a conflict of interest. And certainly makes the whole thing sound even worse re everyone being connected. Thanks for the reply.
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Post by blossom2502 on May 25, 2011 11:16:24 GMT
Shouldn't Terry Court be criticizing the breeders who are bringing their ponies through in such a state, not the individuals campaigning for their welfare? Whether or not they went about it the right way, they should still be applauded for doing their bit! I don't know what was included in that leaflet or who was targeted, but no matter what the contents were, i truely believe that it was done with the best intentions. Terry Court should be working with us not trying to discredit us by calling us childish names.
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Post by fayecary on May 25, 2011 11:27:07 GMT
Terry Court should be working with us not trying to discredit us by calling us childish names. I don't believe Terry Court was ever ASKED to work "with us", was he?...
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Post by hs on May 25, 2011 11:27:19 GMT
I think it depends on what the content of the flyers were and if they were just promoting welfare or if they were being derogotary towards Brightwells as something extreme say like putting TC head on a devil body etc saying boycot Brightwells would be very different from a generic welfare flyer with no names involved. - A friend of mine told me tonight that she was at the Brightwells Sale today (at Malvern) and the sale was stopped for a few minutes for Terry Court to make an announcement. He said someone had been posting flyers and they would be caught and expelled and the police would be called. Terry Court apparently said there had been a lot of fuss about Criccieth stud from a load of funny people. It sounds as though calling welfare crusaders ‘funny people’ in public didn’t do him any favours. There were a lot of mumblings apparently. I think he’d have been better to keep quiet, but make of it what you will. I did have sympathy for Brightwells’ position, but now I’m not so sure. xx
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Post by pencaedu on May 25, 2011 12:06:30 GMT
I wonder what we'll find at Llanybydder tomorrow?
PM me anyone who's going pls
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Post by heathers on May 25, 2011 12:18:20 GMT
I b there there for a quick look
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Post by pippard on May 25, 2011 12:39:04 GMT
Yes, there are a number of conflicts of interest within the Council of WPCS.
Two years ago a complaint was put before Council regarding transportation of animals to Sweden. The owners of the transport company concerned are officers of the Society and guess what the decision to carry out an independent investigation were squashed. Not accusing anyone of anything but without the complaint being investigated no one will know.
There was a major conflict of interest in respect of the Societies immediate past President. He is MD of a company that the Society has a contract with and they have therefore financially benefited from the Society.
After this mans behaviour towards members at the AGM one cannot be surprised at his derogatory remarks to those who care about cruelty to animals.
I have no doubt that this posting will be removed, as one of my other postings. One can only drawn conclusion as to why this happened.
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Post by Admin on May 25, 2011 16:43:21 GMT
I have no doubt that this posting will be removed, as one of my other postings. One can only drawn conclusion as to why this happened. If you took the time to read your pms and your emails you would know why. I suggest you do what I have said above and reply to me or I will have no choice but to remove your account from the site.
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Post by workingcob on May 25, 2011 17:25:27 GMT
H&H have a double page spread on this in tomorrow's mag
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on May 25, 2011 17:27:33 GMT
I should imagine sales will be up then! I don't usually buy it every week but I shall certainly pick one up tomorrow.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 17:30:10 GMT
No I don't usually bother to buy it either but think I'll make an exception for this
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Post by carregcoedwmp on May 25, 2011 17:44:09 GMT
With regards to the WPCS publicity officer speaking at the AGM, no recall of the Cricceth ponies being mentioned but an attack on the hill breeders and a photo of a pony in poor condition was being sent round. That pony was not owned by a WPCS member therefore not relevant. Welfare and cruelty issues are not pacifically a hill pony problem and the Improvement Societies has made great strides to monitor and address any problems on the hills, can the same be said for lowland breeders. I have listened to the publicity officer on many occasions and read his reports and while I have great admiration for his tremendous knowledge of the breed and all his wonderful books have done to help the society over the years, would love to have his memory bank. I have found the his facts and figures on the publicity front are not always accurate and like many other find the constant referrals to the connections to his own stock very boring. This is really not the right thing for a the Society publicity officer to be mentioning; rarely are they relevant to his report. Sorry Sir, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time. Another note on the over breeding front, if this is so prevalent among the Welsh breeds then why are number at auctions down and why are registrations down, around a 1000 last year? I was amazed to read Pippard saying that she found the referrals of our Publicity Officer to his own ponies very boring. Perhaps he has something to be proud about?? He sells his foals on the Fayre Oaks Sales for £1,550; £1,500 (and they go on to win prizes at the Horse of the Year Show etc) whereas there were plenty of others in Brecon for £5. How much do you (Pippard) get for yours and do they all end up in good homes? The Publicity Officer at the 2009 AGM Forum read out passages from Country and Border Life Magazine of that month (March 2009, page50) where a breeder said he had over 200 wild ponies, expected about 120 foals and probably would have to shoot all his colt foals. Dr Wynne's comment was that not EVERY mare on EVERY hill had to be put in foal EVERY year. It is the likes of Pippard objecting to Dr Wynne who are encouraging breeders like Criccieth Stud. In the Magazine article, of all the breeders interviewed, it was only Dr Wynne who supported ponies on the hills, he said "the ponies are vital to the environment. Without them the hills would become jungles and it would not be possible for the ramblers to roam". Dr Wynne practices what he preaches, he used to breed 30 foals, now he breeds 8 or 9, he keeps 2 or 3, the others all go to good homes and do well. Already 3 of this year's foals are sold; he hopes to have photos of them on his web-site soon.
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Post by smokeycott on May 25, 2011 18:04:45 GMT
I have only just read this post, and wholeheartedly agree with pippard on page 36. The state of the Cricceith ponies has been well known & well discussed for years. I find it incredible that the RSPCA has seen fit to ignore complaints & have not prosecuted Mr Lloyd Evans. If they had I am sure the the wheels would have been set in motion for a ban from the WPCS. i think the wpcs has lost so much money with legal battles in the past ,they are probably awaiting the outcome of the rspca procecution before they take any action.
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