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Post by CarolineNelson on May 24, 2011 11:35:32 GMT
Dear Mum! Thank you for the very thoughtful remarks that you have made in your last two posts which we will make sure all members of the Committee are apprised of. We would love to have you as a supporting hands on member in whatever capacity you feel interest in could you contact Jade if you could dedicate some of your thoughfullness directly within the groups? Dear Ringcraft, Superb letter which we would be happy to support Again an offer to assist us directly? Jade - I took it from this post that you were (within the Group/Committee of which Poneydestiny speaks) acting in the role of some sort of 'collator/PR for the Committee. My apologies if I read it wrong. I would appreciate answers to my simple questions though, please.
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Post by honeypot on May 24, 2011 11:47:45 GMT
In looking for other information I found this. We all know that this problem has been a long standing one but it makes interesting reading. The Welsh assemby has no real interest in the ponies welfare just keeping the voters happy or els someting would have been done about this long ago. `With passports likely to cost pounds 20, who in their right mind will want that when newborn foals fetch only pounds 5 to pounds 10 at market? ', quote from the WPCS is chilling.
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Post by bonnieheather on May 24, 2011 11:56:15 GMT
We all must stand together as one - all on here, WPCS, RSPCA to try to make a better future for the horses in our wonderful country.
We need to look at ways of doing this together, and not alienate anyone...Clanched fists can not shake hands...
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sej
Junior Member
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Post by sej on May 24, 2011 12:39:13 GMT
Maybe if people are wishing to protest, it would be better done in a place where it can not be seen as harrasment, large groups of people outside someones property sits rather uneasy with me personal, seems like some sort of witch hunt.
Maybe protest outside a government building or even WPCS! If that is what people really wish to do, but all it takes is one or two bad eggs and what you are protesting over suddenly loses all worth and just looks like trouble makers.
I think the best thing anyone can do is contact the WPCS, RSPCA in the correct manor and keep requesting they do something.
I would also like to raise the point of are these ponies who the passports say... how many owners of these ponies would be willing to pay for DNA tests to be done? I have been told that one lady already had her pony tested and dun dun duuuun,.... DNA proves the pony is not bred how its passport claims... how can WPCS turn a blind eye to that if enough people can prove their ponies have been registered incorrectly and please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that any breeder found to be falsely registering ponies will have their membership revoked and not be able to register ponies in the future?
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Post by roseview on May 24, 2011 13:37:34 GMT
I do wish that the WPCS would waive the fee charged for re registering colts as geldings, especially as they do not have to reissue passports any more. I know it is only £10.50 but having paid the normal colt registration fee last year it is rather discouraging to have to pay out more money for being sensible in not wanting to add to breeding stock in this country.
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mpc
Junior Member
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Post by mpc on May 24, 2011 13:49:37 GMT
I do wish that the WPCS would waive the fee charged for re registering colts as geldings, especially as they do not have to reissue passports any more. I know it is only £10.50 but having paid the normal colt registration fee last year it is rather discouraging to have to pay out more money for being sensible in not wanting to add to breeding stock in this country. Agree with this, or maybe even refund the original registration fee? And re-coup the lost revenue by increasing the cost of stallion licensing!
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Post by ringcraft on May 24, 2011 14:00:40 GMT
This is an extract taken from the Clwyd Welsh Pony and Cob Association catalogue for the coming sale on Saturday under Vendors Notes on page 5 'the auctioneers and the Clwyd Welsh Pony and Cob Association and their agents reserve the right to refuse entry to the sale premises if they deem that any Vendors stock , although entered in the catalogue , may be detrimental to the sale . Ponies , Cobs , and foals which are presented in an unclean manner and / or undernourished will be deemed as unacceptable .' Perhaps other sales should take a leaf out of this Associations book , at least they have a forward thinking Committee and sales agent.
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mpc
Junior Member
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Post by mpc on May 24, 2011 14:03:14 GMT
This is an extract taken from the Clwyd Welsh Pony and Cob Association catalogue for the coming sale on Saturday under Vendors Notes on page 5 'the auctioneers and the Clwyd Welsh Pony and Cob Association and their agents reserve the right to refuse entry to the sale premises if they deem that any Vendors stock , although entered in the catalogue , may be detrimental to the sale . Ponies , Cobs , and foals which are presented in an unclean manner and / or undernourished will be deemed as unacceptable .' Perhaps other sales should take a leaf out of this Associations book , at least they have a forward thinking Committee and sales agent. You may well find that the majority of Auctioneers have something similar written into their T&C's. Which is great, providing they enforce the rule!!
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clp
Newbie
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Post by clp on May 24, 2011 14:11:38 GMT
I have only just read this post, and wholeheartedly agree with pippard on page 36.
The state of the Cricceith ponies has been well known & well discussed for years. I find it incredible that the RSPCA has seen fit to ignore complaints & have not prosecuted Mr Lloyd Evans. If they had I am sure the the wheels would have been set in motion for a ban from the WPCS.
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Post by ringcraft on May 24, 2011 14:24:13 GMT
I have just come across a Clwyd sale catalogue from September 1994 and the exact same statement is in that one as well . And yes for the past 3yrs the Counties of Flintshire , Denbighshire and Wrexham have had an Equine Welfare Officer based in Wrexham and she has attended all of these sales as part of her duties and yes the statement has been adhered to and she has been Very vigilant in these Counties with regard to Welfare . She has also arranged seminars for welfare and education but these were very sparsly attended
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Post by nici on May 24, 2011 14:31:47 GMT
This is an extract taken from the Clwyd Welsh Pony and Cob Association catalogue for the coming sale on Saturday under Vendors Notes on page 5 'the auctioneers and the Clwyd Welsh Pony and Cob Association and their agents reserve the right to refuse entry to the sale premises if they deem that any Vendors stock , although entered in the catalogue , may be detrimental to the sale . Ponies , Cobs , and foals which are presented in an unclean manner and / or undernourished will be deemed as unacceptable .' Perhaps other sales should take a leaf out of this Associations book , at least they have a forward thinking Committee and sales agent. You may well find that the majority of Auctioneers have something similar written into their T&C's. Which is great, providing they enforce the rule!! I'm planning on attending the sale on Saturday and will be happy to report back.
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Post by JadeCannon on May 24, 2011 14:44:44 GMT
Could the number of WPCS registrations also be down due tithe 'responsible' studs taking a stand and reducing numbers in this economic climate?
I think it is much agreed that there is a serious problem of overbreeding, what are everyones ideas on how this can be addressed??
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Post by honeypot on May 24, 2011 15:27:37 GMT
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Post by honeypot on May 24, 2011 15:52:36 GMT
I think in the short term the carrot and stick approach may be quickest. Lobby auctioneers not to take pony's in poor condition for sale and embarrass them by pictures on the Internet if there are. Introduce sale prizes for the best condition, neither too fat or too thin with a descent cash prize to make them see its worth there while. The NF pony society has pre sale shows which increase the price of the ponies. Perhaps if the WPCS is too much of a juggernaut supporters and publicity group starting from scratch may be better as on the lines of www.nfed.co.uk/nfppg.htmThey had alot of flack when they first started but once peole realised it could improve their sales they have managed to change things in a positive way. It also has links to sites so ponies can be sold privately
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Post by brindlerainbow on May 24, 2011 15:54:48 GMT
I have just been catching up with the last few pages as only signed on very briefly since yesterday morning due to work,ponies,visitors,stuff etc etc!!! I know we all want the same thing which is the Criccieth ponies removed and his breeding ponies stopping. I totally agree with Roseview about the gelding registrations, the WPCS should be trying to help responsible breeders/owners not penalise them buy expecting them to pay extra registration fees when they have just had the expense of castration.All auctions, not just Brightwells need to be stricter about the welfare of the ponies that go through the rings. If Brightwells and the vet on duty felt that by letting the Criccieth ponies go through the ring they may get a better life with someone else then they are aknowledging that the ponies are in a poor state and they should have set the wheels in motion to get the rest of the ponies to safety. People who want to buy ponies ( not just Welsh ponies ) need to support the responsible breeders and stop lining the pockets of the cruel/irresponsible people who are churning out poor quality ponies in thier hundreds year in year out. Those people are not rescuing ponies they are providing the type of breeders we all detest with the funds to carry on with thier activities. I am finding the fact that someone has had thier tyres slashed very uncomfortable and I am also not in agreement with the protest. Wether we like it or not we have to accept that Evan Evans obviously has a lot of support among the Welsh pony breeders, if the rumours that his ponies have been swapped for healthy looking ones are true.I wonder if his supporters have a clear concious!!! I think that we need to concentrate our efforts on getting the message across through the media and if H & H are running the story then we are succeeding!!!!
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Post by secretlady on May 24, 2011 17:05:45 GMT
I have been watching this thread with great interest have thought about posting but backed out on several occasions but decided to say what i am thinking shootme down if you must i am a small welsh stud 10 mares 2 stallions i have in fact only put 2 in foal this yr running one each with each stallion to keep him happy i shall keep both foals to show or until i find suitable homes i have never and would never take any of my foals to auction and do go without lots of extras to make sure my ponies are well fed etc. I totally agree with almost everything on this thread except protesting outside the said stud this man is elderly I no its not a excuse but if as a result in this action anything should happen to him then who would be responsible I no the ponies didnt have a choice but please stop and think there are other ways of addressing the problem and I am more than willing to help in anyway other than this
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Post by bonnieheather on May 24, 2011 17:13:29 GMT
Time to regroup and start again!!!! Lets remember what spurned this all - that poor mare and foal at those sales. Irresponsible breeding with a total disregard for the future or welfare of those ponies produced.
We are not chasing one person here - we need to make a change for the future.
So many people have given so many wonderful comments and opinions about improving things for the future and they are have welfare and and the good of the horse at the core of their sentiments.
We need to stand together, alongside the societies and work with them to promote those breeders that DO breed sensibley, conscientiously and with love and care for well treated ponies that are a showcase for their breed - whatever breed that may be.
We can not condone the behaviour of those indiscriminate breeders who have no thought for the future of ponies that are rolled out on the conveyor belt with no regard to where they will end up and what future they have. (Apologies for the awful spelling!)
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Post by sageandonion on May 24, 2011 18:13:47 GMT
Can I take it this ridiculous talk about protests etc., has ceased? I would presume the 'Core Committee' has also disbanded?
The reason I have asked is I have eleven pms (which remain private and confidential) from people not wishing to be involved with such activities and therefore backing off the thread.
I don't know what is going on with that Facebook thing as I haven't seen it. But you are fast alienating all those people who can help.
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Post by sageandonion on May 24, 2011 18:16:28 GMT
AND another thing. I believe there is yet another sale this weekend. Please take photos and video footage of any neglect, speak to the RSPCA and request help, check what passports you can and please please please, do not bid and put money in the pockets of these people and then come on this site with pictures of your 'bargain buys'.
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Post by melyniog on May 24, 2011 18:41:32 GMT
I have a mare entered for the Clwyd sale who I have tried to sell privately for a long time. She is entered with a fair reserve on her. She is in beautiful condition and has been loved and well cared for since she was a foal. I am nervous enough about taking her but all the talk of demonstrations and lobbying at the sale has quite honestly worried me sick. Is every vendor at a sale in danger of being tarred with the same brush ? I was planning to be there with my young daughter but I'm really not sure I can face it.
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Post by sageandonion on May 24, 2011 19:00:00 GMT
Just look at that post above, that's a disgrace this lady is made to feel this way, it needs to stop right now.
Mely I am sure it will all be fine and I hope your pony finds a super home who are very happy to pay a fair price.
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Milliesmum
H G Addict
COCKERP00S RULE!!!
Posts: 23,901
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Post by Milliesmum on May 24, 2011 19:33:30 GMT
I don't think for a minute anyone who has kept and presented their animals properly would be targeted in any way.
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Post by junetimp on May 24, 2011 19:34:13 GMT
Quote ;- Time to regroup and start again!!!! Lets remember what spurned this all - that poor mare and foal at those sales. Irresponsible breeding with a total disregard for the future or welfare of those ponies produced.
Well said Bonnie heather.
Lets all remember everyone is doing THEIR BEST - we all want to stop the suffering!
Lets try to stand togther and not stand in judgement of one another.
The most important thing is that the suffering is stopped - different people have different aproaches - it doesn't mean that some people are more right or other people are more wrong in their approach.
After all the last time I looked this was a free country - still with free speech.
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Post by perfectponies on May 24, 2011 19:35:42 GMT
Hi all I asked this question this morning : Please can I ask a simple question - Apologies if I'm being thick - but does anyone know if the RSPCA have been to Criccieth since the Brightwell sale - yes I have read that ponies have been moved etc but have the RSPCA actually been out to the stud? Many Thanks
But nobody has answered with a simple yes or no - Does anybody know? including the 'Builth horsegossip steering committee' The RSPCA as a charity have their own mission statement /code of conduct which they should be following. I assume trying to get the RSPCA into Criccieth is everyones main aim as nothing can move forward or change without them unfortunately! Please can someone tell me have the RSPCA made a visit and is there a collective official RSPCA incident log number? I do have reasons for asking. Many Thanks
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Post by JadeCannon on May 24, 2011 20:08:54 GMT
LD - I would truely give my right arm to have the eloquence and skill with words you have. Well said.
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Post by bonnieheather on May 24, 2011 20:11:28 GMT
********IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT**************** **************Due to the concerns voiced regarding the planned Peaceful Protest for this Saturday May 28th, and the short time frame, it has been decided to put this on hold for the moment. We would like to thank all of you who have demonstrated your strong engagement towards solving issues regarding overbreeding. We have received hundreds of consultations with various individuals and this is providing an excellent base for moving forward. We continue to encourage you to commit, whether through your actual participation in our rapidly growing group, or by other means. We are all looking forward to a proud, new and brighter future in the breeding industry. Thank you all for your contributions - all of which have helped us reach this level in a very short time...*************
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Post by nici on May 24, 2011 20:16:08 GMT
I have a mare entered for the Clwyd sale who I have tried to sell privately for a long time. She is entered with a fair reserve on her. She is in beautiful condition and has been loved and well cared for since she was a foal. I am nervous enough about taking her but all the talk of demonstrations and lobbying at the sale has quite honestly worried me sick. Is every vendor at a sale in danger of being tarred with the same brush ? I was planning to be there with my young daughter but I'm really not sure I can face it. I have stated somewhere, not sure if in this thread, that the society sales should be a showcase for breeders, providing an opportunity to show their stock to a wider audience. I went to a SPSBS sale 2 years ago, cheque book in pocket, in my horsebox, wanting to buy - but two of the three fillies I'd marked up in my catalogue went just above my maximum price (would have gone higher I'm sure if I'd continued to bid) and the other I didn't like when I saw her in the flesh. All the ponies there were in good health, clean and well presented. I wasn't looking to rescue a bargain, I went to buy a future riding pony for my daughter, but sadly my budget wasn't big enough - my favourite of the fillies sold for the highest price of the day! I went to the Clwyd WPCA sales last autumn with a friend who was looking to buy. Again, some lovely ponies, very well presented. My friend didn't find what she was looking for, but did contact one breeder after the sale as she had fallen for a pony that didn't sell, and she bought him privately afterwards (not what she was looking for, but your heart can do amazing things). Again, not a rescue, but a fair price paid for a lovely young pony. I expect the Clwyd sale on Saturday to be full of more beautiful ponies in lovely condition. I'm going with a group of friends, in a horsebox - just in case one of us is tempted We are not looking for rescue cases - to be honest, with limited land and without serious quarantine facilities I wouldn't take on a rescue pony as I would not want to put our current ponies at risk. We will go to admire the lovely ponies and see what happens. In my experience of the society sales I've been to, it is mainly the young colts that go at bargain prices, and that is such a shame for them. When I was looking for a Shetland, I would gladly have looked at young geldings as well as fillies, had there been geldings present, but all the youngsters were colts or fillies. At the time I had only one field, which was full of mares, so nowhere to put a colt. Had some of the breeders gelded their colts they would have had a wider market - as it was all those of us looking for potential riding ponies were fighting for the same fillies if we were unable to keep colts. I later bought 2 fabulous young geldings privately for a lower combined price than I was willing to spend at the sales. Melyniog, let me know your mare's lot number (by PM if you prefer) and I will look out for you and say hello. I really do hope the furore over the Criccieth ponies doesn't spill over into a genuine showcase event for responsible breeders.
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Post by sageandonion on May 24, 2011 20:20:49 GMT
I am pleased the protest will not go ahead. Of course everyone has a right to protest but, the term is Innocent until proven guilty. It is going to be very hard to find the support and the rock solid evidence to prove guilt and I think we should appear whiter than white. It is not very peaceful to protest outside a person's house when they are, for the moment, an innocent.
I too, like a lot of others, will bow out now but I shall continue to do what I can.
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Post by JadeCannon on May 24, 2011 20:35:29 GMT
It is going to be very hard to find the support and the rock solid evidence to prove guilt and I think we should appear whiter than white. . Just a quick note on that - there was, in my eyes (I cannot speak for others) never any 'guilt proving' needed. That is not up to 'the masses' - Either the RSPCA / WPCS etc, were going to address the situation or not, the 'protest' was (i believe, as I did not initiate it) a way of increasing press interest - as many people have commented that the RSPCA will only involve if good PR in it. ps - im really not whiter than white - not showered since yesterday morn - been too busy on comp!!!
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Post by pentaran on May 24, 2011 21:04:28 GMT
The DEFRA offices in Caernarfon are not aware of the situation apparently and Ive been told in no uncertain terms that they are not involved in horse welfare anyway, even in livestock welfare cases they have a problem getting vets to tell the RSPCA that an animal needs help or that the owner needs dealing with, so seemingly all wheels have to be oiled for anything to work in these instances.
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