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Post by bigmama on Jun 16, 2011 20:33:04 GMT
Extremely disappointed to read on BSPS website that the following suggested rule changes for Heritage PONIES are not going to be supported for 2012 YET they are happily putting on three more HORSE classes for intermediates exc 158cms ...
PAGE 59 RULE 363 HERITAGE WHP- SUGGESTED Highland Fells and Dales to be split into exceeding 138cms apart from the Connemara, New Forest and Welsh D
ALSO SUGGESTED (separately) Section 1a Open Height 70cms Shetlands, Exmoor, Dartmoor up to 122cms
Section 1b Open Height 80cms New Forest, Welsh A & B up to 128cms and Exmoor,Dartmoor ,Highland, Fell and Dales up to 138cms
Section 2 Open Height 90cms New Forest, Connemara, Welsh B & C up to 138cms and Highalnd, Fells, and Dales over 138cms.
Section 3 Open Height 100cms New Forest, Connemara and Welsh D over 138cms.
Section 1a and 1b would be judged as one section, with one qualifying place
We frequently find is that when it comes to awarding jumping style marks, preference is often given to the lithe connemara/new forest/welsh d ponies but a comparison between those and the heavier natives and the fact that the heavier breeds are being expected to perform OUTSIDE of their individual breeds has pushed most of the h/f/d out of m&m workers
All this shows a complete lack of understanding of the M&M WHP ...
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Post by bundle on Jun 17, 2011 8:09:00 GMT
So who is the BSPS who decide this? Is it Council? If so then perhaps a lobby of Council is in order? They are there to look after the society - voted in by the members.
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rural
Junior Member
Posts: 127
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Post by rural on Jun 17, 2011 8:17:13 GMT
Well said Bigmamma, I so agree, we also have a heavy breed , and were disappointed the suggestions where not upheld. We will not this year not be taking our two ponies to BSPS champs, but trying Equifest , who have listened to their customers and split the heavy breeds in some worker classes.
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Post by bigmama on Jun 17, 2011 10:54:14 GMT
Well said Bigmamma, I so agree, we also have a heavy breed , and were disappointed the suggestions where not upheld. We will not this year not be taking our two ponies to BSPS champs, but trying Equifest , who have listened to their customers and split the heavy breeds in some worker classes. Ditto! Good luck @ Equifest and see you in the SPLIT WORKERS classes
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Post by Grace1991 on Jun 18, 2011 10:15:44 GMT
If you join your area comitee you can vote for of against the rule changes.
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Post by titch on Jun 18, 2011 12:45:57 GMT
Owning a 13hh welsh c i don't see why i should be against a bigger breed. I think it should stay as it is or just have a fell dales and highlands class.
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Post by bigmama on Jun 18, 2011 13:59:29 GMT
Owning a 13hh welsh c i don't see why i should be against a bigger breed. I think it should stay as it is or just have a fell dales and highlands class. i agree the latter would be preferable ... altho our total novice welsh c is easily jumping an exc 138cms novice workers course at home
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Post by busybusy on Jun 20, 2011 11:45:08 GMT
One of the problems with a further split in the M&M whp classes (resulting in either 4 or 5 sections instead of 3) is this could be a nightmare for show organisers. The additional cost and work to add these sections could simply put many show committees off running M&M workers at all! At the BSPS champs I am not sure where these additional classes would be shoe-horned into an already tight schedule.
Give BSPS their due, they do run a heritage champs. Perhaps we should suggest that they run one of the proposed splits as an "experimental" class there? This doesn't mean I don't agree with the sentiment - I am just looking at this from an organisers point of view.
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Post by tenpin on Jun 20, 2011 12:08:28 GMT
I fully agree busy busy these classes would take a major re-hash to fit in, (having been on the organising side also) But, at least, it would make them representative of the title Mountain and Moorland Working Hunter.
As at the moment it would appear it needs to be re-named the Connemara, New Forest ,Dartmoor and Welsh Working Hunter competition. All breeds that by their own admission contain a higher infusion of outside blood
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Post by busybusy on Jun 20, 2011 13:07:37 GMT
...and some very good fells and highlands are regular winners/well placed in the middles. Brooksan Kitchener (fell) was 3rd at HoYs last year and won the Hoys qualifier at 3 counties last Friday!
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Post by doublevision1972 on Jun 24, 2011 15:51:55 GMT
For me personaly I wish normal shows would build courses nearer or up to height , unless its a hoys qualifier Ive yet to jump an open anywhere near what open height should be, lovely course Derbyshire festival and Cheshire Co, but anywhere else they are so small anything can get round, so all the ones with not so much ability go clear and it becomes virtualy a flat class. Also some judging very random, how can a clear get the same style marks as 2 down and a stop?? come on judges start rewarding the performance ponies instead of the fat ones who heave themselves over! rant over lol x
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Post by Twiggy on Jun 25, 2011 11:24:37 GMT
The trouble is with this you can't really judge one class when the ponies have jumped seperate heights, especially when you get onto the bigger quals.Its a good move, but for me they should go all out and seperate the classes properly, almost seems like much less hassle, and only 1 extra class in the section?!
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Post by 5874julie on Jun 25, 2011 11:36:46 GMT
we jump mainly nps rather than bsps, but it is a difficult one. we had a rule change in the native breeds open a couple of years ago that made the tracks easier for just about every pony, except for ponies like ours - a 13.3 new forest, that found itself up against 15.2 section ds while for some reason smaller section ds were given their own category! i notice this has been dropped in favour of a 'starter stakes' category this year, because it was so unpopular. in terms of the suggested changes, i find it hard to justify putting the darties and exmoors in with the shetlands at the lowest height while the welsh as have to jump the bigger one. i would have thought it was really only the shetlands that needed an allowance making. i would also like to see less emphasis put on the height of fences, and more on the variety of obstacles/technicality of the course as a way of measuring performance. this would give the smaller ponies/breeds in each height category a more level playing field and make it less of a show jumping competition. when nps introduced a water splash it really weeded people out! but it is a good 'hunting' obstacle.
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Post by bigmama on Jun 25, 2011 12:02:09 GMT
...and some very good fells and highlands are regular winners/well placed in the middles. Brooksan Kitchener (fell) was 3rd at HoYs last year and won the Hoys qualifier at 3 counties last Friday! very welll done Brooksan Kitchener in the middle-height Hoys m&m whp section ..... ... but what about the over 138cms? how many highland/fell/dales ponies do you see regularly competing in the larges? if you know of any currently doing so, please do name them ... and how many has anyone seen in the Hoys final in the last five years (and i am talking exc 138cms class here) i agree with previous comment about renaming the classes ... the H/F/D are virtually excluded from the exc 138 class which should be renamed 'The Connemara/New Forest/Welsh D Class' it just aint fair .... the C/NF/WD can jump the current exc 138 courses WITHIN THEIR BREED STANDARD but the H/F/D cannot jump them WITHIN THEIR BREED STANDARD .. they are being totally excluded resulting in an unbalanced representation of our native breeds ... why cant BSPS, NPS and HOYS see this??? and the time to fit an extra class into the show schedules is not excuse when the BSPS are adding yet more HORSE classes ! thank you, over and out
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Post by doublevision1972 on Jun 26, 2011 20:09:28 GMT
I agree, then the large height for Connies and section Ds can be up to height and correct distances in the double! instead of low courses which are only one hole heigher than the Novice!!
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Post by bigmama on Jun 27, 2011 16:13:33 GMT
whilst i agree with your comments re up to height and correct distances for the more athletic large breeds of conn/nf/welsh d, please do let me know where you find such low Open exc 138cms M&M WHP courses so we can have a go as i have yet to see an open in the north west which is just one hole higher than the novice equivalent!
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Post by doublevision1972 on Jun 27, 2011 16:51:15 GMT
Lol everywhere I go! Nps area 4 novice was very small, intermediate small and even the ri was small, kirklevington open was 85cms as I queried it with one of the helpers and they said that was what to height of the open should be!! but they arent getting the entries so who can blame them! area 3b yest was small but a lovely course ncpa newark open only slightly biger than novice, as I said Derbyshire festival and Cheshire were only ones that were up to height, 99 cms!! tbh most of the open height courses they dont build anywhere near the height of the hoys qualifiers, which I understand as they dont get the entries and dont want to put people off, all of the courses where amazing for content and effort and all the shows I mentioned built lovely courses. All I was agreeing with was the above comments about another height section for the h/f/d perhaps deffinately for the hoys qualifiers??any thing to encourage entries as if we dont enter shows will stop putting on workers as those classes are the hardest to put on, but at normal bsps shows there aren't enough entries to split the M&M workers further, yet Cheshire for eg had 44 entries in the large height!! I just wish there were more qualifiers!! alot of the RI quali were down south and there are only 18 hoys qualifiers to my knowledge - that is for the whole country!!!! so if there are 44 entries and thats just one area then there isn't much chance of qualifiying!!! so please can we have more shows with qualifiers!! xx
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