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Post by hunter on Aug 7, 2011 11:48:59 GMT
all our local farmers do is winge , dry spring = low hay yields ,ok i accept that ,low yields = high price ,ok suply and demand i kind of accept that ,but for the first time in years the farmers around here have managed to get very good second cut so have more hay than ever and has the price come down ? NO and there talking of it going up even higher !!!! at the moment your lucky to get it for £5 a bale (off field } Trouble is people paniced and paid it before second cut so now the greedy bar stewards think oh well they can oviously afford it !! its not so bad when single horse owners can get away with 50 or 100 bales a year but last year i got through 1.000 bales so my hay bill will go from £3,500 to a minimum £5,000 in a year !!! poor farmers they do have such a hard life !! like they say ''you never see a farmer on a bike !''
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Post by viking on Aug 7, 2011 12:04:08 GMT
Sorry hunter. The days of anyone subsidising your equine interest has long since gone.
Supply and demand, you are right, and if farming is such an easy occupation, why on earth aren't you in it?
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Post by bow1607 on Aug 7, 2011 12:10:48 GMT
You also have to remember that everything has gone up for the farmer..... fuel, maintenance, over heads, business tax, road tax for land rover/tractor, insurance etc I wouldn't expect anyone to work for nothing and farmers have a very hard life, they can't shut there doors at 5pm Monday - Friday.... its 24/7
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Post by Louise Dixon on Aug 7, 2011 12:21:25 GMT
Couldn't agree with above comments more, the cost of getting a bale of hay off the field is astronomical now with all the costs bow1607 mentions, and if any one is buyng large bale haylage, up here it is costing in the region of £3 just for the plastic to wrap each bale. Decent small balers just don't exist now, so if you have a break down with a small square baler, often you have to have the parts individually made, I think you can imagine the cost impact of that. The machinery itself costs thousands, usually having to be bought on finance so it gets even more expensive, and that's all without costing anything in for the farmer actually trying to make a living. No one forced you to have horses, hunter, its a luxury item! And if in fact you are running an equine businees, then surely you understand the point of a business is to try and make a profit? Yes, we have ponies here too, but we have them because I am lucky enough to have a pretty well paid job (I am a teacher). If our farm was twice the size and we were both working on it, rather than me going out to work, hobbies which cost anything would be totally out of the equation. Why do you never see a farmer on a bike? Because they haven't got b****y time!
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Post by mikesloft1 on Aug 7, 2011 12:56:38 GMT
Interesting comments here. Yep horses are a luxury item nowadays but if you price the feed out of the market, more people will give up their luxury hobby, demand for the feed will go down and farming folk will suffer even more than mowhaugh points out. It's also a bit unfair of viking to ask why hunter is not in farming. Simple really, most farms are family businesses which have been handed down and the average person would have no chance of buying one as a business anyway. A farmers wealth is normally in his assets, i.e. his land. A farmer near me has just sold a pocket of land to Morrisons for their South West Distribution centre at a reputed price of £30m. I'm sure we wont be seeing him riding round on his bike even with all the time he now has on his hands! I believe in paying a fair price for a good product and have no problem with anyone making a fair profit. At the same time, if you want to sustain your income you have to ensure you secure your market and not price yourself out of it. I sometimes think though, that we horselovers will do anything to keep our beloved animals when times are hard and that often means suppliers hold us in a vice like grip by our knackers! (apologies ladies!)
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Post by bizzylizzie on Aug 7, 2011 13:09:03 GMT
I'm fed up with winging horse owners wanting 'charity' for their hobby!! Yes hay is £5 a bale today, but it was £2.50 10 years ago, when tractor fuel was 9ppl and now its 66.9ppl!!!!! That's an increase of 600%!! but your hay has only a 100% increase!!! A 600% increase would be £17.50 a bale, so who's being greedy? ? Fertiliser prices follow the fuel trend as they are closely related, and then there are the increases in Agricultural wages, but don't even get me started on insurance costs!!!!!!! INFLATION doesn't = GREED As for second cuts of forage, remember people have already started feeding the first cut as supplies were so short last winter and the grass so scarce in spring that there was nothing left to supplement the summer feeding (we were using imported stuff from Ireland!). Also i know many farmers had to graze some of their silage fields in spring due to the dry weather, so what would have been first cut went straight into the mouths of cattle rather than the clamp or a bale for winter feed. We are in East Anglia and are doing the last of the first cuts today!! We've yet to see a second cut and it's not a certainty until its in the clamp/bale! Wait till you see the price of straw, cos that is in VVVVVV short supply here and what is in the swath is more like chaff. We have baled more rape straw than ever in 10yrs of contracting.
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Post by tigger on Aug 7, 2011 13:13:17 GMT
Try asking the farmer if he will do a deal on price if you buy/pay up front? Thats what the farmer does on the farm I'm on. He'll discount on bulk orders and especially if people pay up front. I know thats not an option for everyone but always worth asking if you are in a position to do that. I work with the farmer to make the hay - and he worked out the other day that I earn more (as self employed casual labour) per hour than he does. His hourly rate of 'pay' worked out somewhere around £2!!
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Post by tigger on Aug 7, 2011 13:19:19 GMT
As bizzielizzie says straw is going to be even worse!! We normally bale straw for a couple of other local farms but this will be the last year of that supply - because it's going to be cheaper for them to plough it back into the land rather than fertilize because the cost of fertilizer has gone up so much!!
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Post by emma3870 on Aug 7, 2011 13:39:42 GMT
straw is like gold dust round here - most rape is usually chopped when combined and integrated back into the soil. ploughs are a rarity around us. min till is used mainly due to cost.
straw was in short supply last year - this year its even worse.
what the farmers got more on 2nd cut hay didnt really make up for what they lost in first cut.
where i milk we are 30% down on silage already this year. the maize took a long time to establish, we have been feeding silage since it was cut due to lack of grass. We usually have 190 cows but are down to 137 in total due to high prices of not only replacements but also ancillary costs. not only that but his main worker has left and he cant find a replacement even though he is offering a refurbished 4 bedroomed farmhouse on the farm free with the job!
i paid £6.50 per square bale to be wrapped and baled 3 years ago. Even though costs have gone up its not that much dearer now. We worked our wrap out at £2.80 per bale but only that cheap because we buy it off a contractor as he gets a better price because he buys in bulk.
i hate it when people bash farmers. We have watched friends (and family) suffer because of supermarkets bashing down prices.
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Post by brindlerainbow on Aug 7, 2011 14:20:33 GMT
Straw is very scarce round here too ( Devon ) . I bought hay off the field a couple of weeks ago at £3.50 a bale and its good stuff This year the small bale haylage in the local feed store has gone up from £6.40 to £7.60 so I am going back to hay. I have always got my hay from the same farmer in the past but this year it didnt dry as well before baling so he's got it in the barn with the blowers on to dry it out. I think it will end up dusty so went to a new supplier.
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Post by Louise Dixon on Aug 7, 2011 14:54:36 GMT
Interesting comments here. Yep horses are a luxury item nowadays but if you price the feed out of the market, more people will give up their luxury hobby, demand for the feed will go down and farming folk will suffer even more than mowhaugh points out. It's also a bit unfair of viking to ask why hunter is not in farming. Simple really, most farms are family businesses which have been handed down and the average person would have no chance of buying one as a business anyway. A farmers wealth is normally in his assets, i.e. his land. A farmer near me has just sold a pocket of land to Morrisons for their South West Distribution centre at a reputed price of £30m. I'm sure we wont be seeing him riding round on his bike even with all the time he now has on his hands! I believe in paying a fair price for a good product and have no problem with anyone making a fair profit. At the same time, if you want to sustain your income you have to ensure you secure your market and not price yourself out of it. I sometimes think though, that we horselovers will do anything to keep our beloved animals when times are hard and that often means suppliers hold us in a vice like grip by our knackers! (apologies ladies!) I think you make some very valid points, but the percentage of farmers who own their farms is very small. I am not sure about figures for this, but I suspect that across the country much, much more hay and straw will be being sold to other farmers who because of the nature of their land cannot produce the fodder for their stock which is being produced for food, than is being sold to horse owners, and the only reason why the price may be higher for horses is because of the additional time and labour required to provide the quality expected compared to what you could safely give to cattle and sheep. In March of this year we decided to sell all our cows because of the cost of feeding them bought in hay meant it was no longer possible to make any money from them, which was heartbreaking and really quite depressing, but we are trying to run a business and certainly aren't blaming other farmers for this situation. It is possible to get into farming - I know, we are doing it - but is it extremely hard work physically and and times terrifying financially. Yes, we are doing this because we love it, we love the countryside and the animals and working outdoors, but no one would dream of suggesting that because I love children I go to my teaching job without being paid, so it is extremely frustrating when people seem to resent farmers making any money (we haven't yet, but we hope we will get to the point where we do).
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Post by flicker on Aug 7, 2011 15:20:58 GMT
I have to say that my farmer is great i have 8ft bales of hay and only pay £20 for it the only thing that is wrong with it is that it was muddy on the bottom i dont waist any it rubs off quite a lot of others a have refused it so i bought the lot my ponies look fab and love the hay. because i go with the flow he has agreed that he will put me enough hay aside for the next year at only £5 per bale more i cant complain at that as everyone else is paying £35 for 6ft bales and they will go upto £40. he also moves my muck heap levels the paddock trims the hedges for only £20 per hour so not all are bad :0
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Post by kickon on Aug 7, 2011 15:28:14 GMT
GREED Have seen straw on the net for £68 a large bale I am paying £15 and fetching them in by the trailer load!! I have just paided £30 for my haylage and that is cheep around me! They already wand £55 to £60 a bale Its going to be a hard winter for me with 21 big one's to feed
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Post by jinja on Aug 7, 2011 15:41:44 GMT
what I do not understand is if we are constantly having a shortage with hay straw and grain, why do we not grow more? Am I right in thinking that the government pay some farmers not to grow crops on their land? can a farmer answer this for me I am not taking sides just a genuine question.
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Post by hunter on Aug 7, 2011 15:42:29 GMT
yes i too work 24/7 ,and my family are hugely affected by the super markets , and i dont expect to be subsidised ,unlike some !!
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Post by kickon on Aug 7, 2011 15:53:48 GMT
How many of us hang out around the reduced area Horses and dog's get the best grub Mum and I will go without to feed them
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dazycutter
Happy to help
The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his Tongue.
Posts: 7,933
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Post by dazycutter on Aug 7, 2011 16:32:45 GMT
I think the problem is it varies so much... last week my hay supplier charged my friend £5 a bale.. today he charged me £6 a bale... another local supplier who I buy big bales from is £30.. work that one out.. they live in the same village.. LOL
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Post by chalky284 on Aug 7, 2011 16:56:41 GMT
I know that this may sound silly, but can farmers not use horse muck as fertiliser??? Well rotted of course?? Surely that would be cheaper???
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Post by teddydog on Aug 7, 2011 16:58:52 GMT
OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH hitting nerve here.
We are farmers and our costs are now sky high. With out fert we would not be able to grow the grass this has trebled in price, our fuel prices have also increased as has machinery. I think several people have picked up on this.
The reason you have had it so good for so many years is because the fact is we where not making much money on things and now you have to pay the proper price for it you whinge!!!! but we still dont make that much money on it its just taken up by costs.
Last year we didnt manage to make any haylage for our horses and didnt have enough forage for our cattle so we ended up buying in 20 bales a week. The winter ended costing about £10k which we had to find and we still didnt get a better price for our cattle and sold very few of our youngstock horse wise.
So stop whinging and just be greatful you can get good quality forage and remember it could get worse!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by victoria (highhill) on Aug 7, 2011 17:00:14 GMT
jinja - you can only make more hay if you have the land, time and machinery to do so. We dont seem to get weeks and weeks of hot hay making weather through the summer in this country, so even if you try and grow more grass for hay/silage you still need enough good weather/time to make it
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dazycutter
Happy to help
The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his Tongue.
Posts: 7,933
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Post by dazycutter on Aug 7, 2011 17:06:58 GMT
wish my lawns would stop growing the flipping grass though.... PMSL...
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Post by sweetpea on Aug 7, 2011 17:09:18 GMT
there is some very greedy farmers neear me to in somerset.we to farm and make and sell haylage. yes fuel increase wrap etc theres no way we would charge 5pds for small i wouldnt pay it myself.makes me cross.
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Post by teddydog on Aug 7, 2011 17:09:57 GMT
and hunter as for the "subsidised" farmer its given cause it would be impossible for us to make farming pay as it is today.
If you sat with me on thursday night when i was paying our monthly bills you would see why.
No wonder we want to retire to a farm in France where farmers are treated with respect and supported by the public not like over here!!
Jinja the goverment do not pay us to grow crops in fact with cross compliance we have to leave margins in our fields on which we are not allowed to grow anything.
If you want more corn and hay to grow we would have to cut down on other things like cattle (beef and milk) which would cause shortage in another area and you would then have to pay more for that. We are only a small island thats expanding rapidly in population and demand so thats when things get tougher!
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Aug 7, 2011 17:19:09 GMT
Regarding being paid not to grow - I think you are meaning setaside - that doesn't happen anymore. I am not a farmer, but I work for a number of farmers as a bookkeeper and secretary and I see there are some very valid points on both sides. However, if the consumer in the UK would realise that by purchasing cheap imported food they are fueling lower prices to our farmers who have the very best welfare standards in the whole of Europe, which then means that our farmers have to cut their costs - ie ploughing in straw.
I would conservatively reckon that most farmers and contractors fuel bills alone will have risen by approximately 1/3, so by my simple maths that means your bale of hay would cost at least 1/3 more to produce.
As in all walks of life their are some bad ones, but on the whole, farmers are not scroungers and whingers. Like in all walks of life, some may want to sell at the top end of the market, and I do feel sorry for those of you who have a lot to feed. I think crop may well come down a bit in price - it seems to have done in the markets at the moment. But its weather dependent as we all know, and this weather is not making things look hopeful at the moment!
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Post by mumsie on Aug 7, 2011 17:23:03 GMT
Anybody in Bucks want good wheat straw we have mini hestons from last year left. Also got big bale hay this year.
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Post by victoria (highhill) on Aug 7, 2011 17:26:38 GMT
the main problem is hay has always been too cheap before, in the past there wasnt really money to be paid out of small bale hay, and now at last prices have started to go up and we are starting to make a small profit out of hay. Horse people have had it too cheap for years!!
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Post by jackfrost on Aug 7, 2011 17:35:31 GMT
all our local farmers do is winge , dry spring = low hay yields ,ok i accept that ,low yields = high price ,ok suply and demand i kind of accept that ,but for the first time in years the farmers around here have managed to get very good second cut so have more hay than ever and has the price come down ? NO and there talking of it going up even higher !!!! at the moment your lucky to get it for £5 a bale (off field } Trouble is people paniced and paid it before second cut so now the greedy bar stewards think oh well they can oviously afford it !! its not so bad when single horse owners can get away with 50 or 100 bales a year but last year i got through 1.000 bales so my hay bill will go from £3,500 to a minimum £5,000 in a year !!! poor farmers they do have such a hard life !! like they say ''you never see a farmer on a bike !'' are you for real? Words fail me and i cannot post what i'd really like to as there are juniors reading this site. An angry farmer.
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Post by knockandy on Aug 7, 2011 17:49:41 GMT
I/we are farmers. We dont have a great standard of living, we live in a great place with plenty of land though. When the kids ask for PS2's or laptops etc we cant provide them as we dont earn enough money. We own our farm and are very lucky to do so, because the previous generation made enough money to do so. At times we would have liked to have had a son to carry on the family farm. But the reality is we have 2 daughters, and are actually relieved that we dont have to try and keep things going for the next generation. There isnt money to be made in farming. We could sell the famr and the 1200 ewes and leave the kids very comfortably off. This capital has come from our fathers and grand fathers working incredably hard. The idea that farmers are earning big money at the expense of horse owners is ludicrous It certainly doesnt happen here!!!! Yes, we do sell to horse owners, but as horse owners ourselves, we can see it from both sides. Anyone like to guess the price of a ton of fertiliser suitable for grassland
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Post by teddydog on Aug 7, 2011 18:48:57 GMT
highhill/jackfrost spot on
; )
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Post by hs on Aug 7, 2011 19:19:46 GMT
I think people forget farmers are businessmen just like any business they will want to get maximum profits and will charge what they think people will pay. I am sure most of us on here who have to work, work for organizations where the aim is to get the maximum amount of profit yet expect farmers to provide hay at cost or just above cost.
I come from a farming background though my family are no longer in farming now. A lot of farmers do not have much respect for horse owners their perception of horse owners is similar to what a lot of people on here think of farmers!
Some farmers see horse people out in their huge expensive lorries going to competitions looking rich and presume they have plenty of money. Go to any county show and you will see lorries that cost more than some houses and people who look like they have a lot of money. Horse people have a reputation of being tricky to deal with and tight with money when they appear to have plenty.
Farmers also have to pay tax, business rates etc. Personally if I was a farmer I would want to get the maximum amount of profit in the same way most people want to get paid as much as possible for the work that they do. If someone said to me I could earn 25% more for doing the same work and it would only mean that some rich people had to pay more for a product I would have no problem with that.
I know horses owners are not all rich but that is the perception that outsiders can sometimes think.
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