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Post by not fair on Jun 23, 2007 12:38:32 GMT
In refrence to the HOYS M&M FR class if the rules state it is to be judged under a points system and the judges have made a mistake then the pony with the highest points will qualify it is no diffrent to the Royal show last year if it was my pony i would be checking this out.
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Post by rigrag on Jun 23, 2007 12:46:11 GMT
I fully agree that the championship for the cobs would have been a priority but why go into the riding horse class at all. The point i am making is that if the The Philanderer had been pulled in top, Jayne would have waited untill after the judge rode him and then asked for permission to go and do the cob championship while she was riding the rest of the class... But because she was displeased with her pull she decided to leave all together. Definate toys out of the pram if you ask me!!!!! P.S If it makes you feel any better i do think that The Philanderer looks stunning this year.
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bad
Newbie
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Post by bad on Jun 23, 2007 16:50:19 GMT
if you thought the palomino section b was bad you should have seen what won the yearling colt class!
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Post by robbed on Jun 23, 2007 16:56:32 GMT
I watched the large riding horse class and whilst i wouldnt say the horse is easy by any means he certainly is a star of the future. I may not be a big fan of that teams coloured LW cob but i would be first in line to say Philanderer is one of the nicest horses on the circuit at the mo.
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Post by abe on Jun 23, 2007 17:07:38 GMT
This thread has been edited due to inappropriate comments. Can we please try and move the discussion away from discussing what one producer has chosen to do re:class clashes. It seems to me that there was nothing scandelous about taking a horse out of a class that it has been pulled in low in order to compete in another ring where it may have more off a chance. Any more comments on this will be removed.
Thankyou.
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Post by fmm on Jun 23, 2007 17:53:29 GMT
In reply to your question was The Philandra sent out of the riding horse class at Lincolnshire Show. It has been stated that the class clashed with the cob championship that it quiet correct, but if you watched the class as closley as i did you would have realised that Jayne Webber only decided to leave after she realised she was'nt going to get pulled in the top five. I wonder what would have happened if she had got the top pull? Come on everybody lets not kid ourselves, she spit the dummy out because of her pull. actually, the facts are really simple! We wanted to get the horse into a class (he has been to several shows recently and due to clashes hasn't done his class). If he had been pulled in top 3 or 4, then we would have been able to have the judge ride him, and then Jayne would have asked to be excused to do the cob championship and then dash back into the ring after the championship. However, with the low pull, she made the on the spot decision to ask if she could leave the RH class in order to do the cob championship, as by the time Phil would have been ridden, Jayne would have not been in the ring. Hope that makes sense and it was all down to timing. We would always withdraw a horse from a class if it has done something awful or behaved dangerously, but never from a low pull!
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Post by johnwayne on Jun 23, 2007 18:45:26 GMT
Sorry Abe - I think that the above (only it seems to be below) explanation is fair enough. She was excused from the class to try for better things with another horse; it's not as if she was trying her luck in another class with the same horse. Championships are different - IMO.
This would be a good topic for a new thread, in general terms, no names. Like, when is it ok to ask to leave the ring?
actually, the facts are really simple! We wanted to get the horse into a class (he has been to several shows recently and due to clashes hasn't done his class). If he had been pulled in top 3 or 4, then we would have been able to have the judge ride him, and then Jayne would have asked to be excused to do the cob championship and then dash back into the ring after the championship. However, with the low pull, she made the on the spot decision to ask if she could leave the RH class in order to do the cob championship, as by the time Phil would have been ridden, Jayne would have not been in the ring. Hope that makes sense and it was all down to timing. We would always withdraw a horse from a class if it has done something awful or behaved dangerously, but never from a low pull![/quote]
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Post by abe on Jun 23, 2007 19:11:13 GMT
Good idea for a new thread Oldie, you are welcome to open up a new discussion. For now though with regards this thread I think that enough has been said on the subject; back on track please guys!
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Post by sd on Jun 23, 2007 19:16:30 GMT
I noticed Starcrest Discovery was entered - where did he get placed??? he wasn't there as he's already qualified
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Post by Section A on Jun 23, 2007 19:52:35 GMT
it wasn't the pally stallion who went champion, it was the llanarth mare and she also took the CUDDY's.
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Post by npo on Jun 23, 2007 21:15:27 GMT
What was the llanarth mare called?
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Post by blackknight nli on Jun 24, 2007 2:31:46 GMT
Llanarth Camilla
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Post by nli on Jun 25, 2007 6:38:48 GMT
hisley saunter qualified for the first ridden If Hisley Saunter was 8 marks behind Jenny Wren How can he have took the ticket, I dont understand?? Anyone know the facts?
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Post by 4fun on Jun 25, 2007 8:34:23 GMT
We were at Lincoln in the M&M FR and found the whole thing bizarre! Early in the afternoon there was an announcement that the class would be split due to numbers and that mares would be in the first section and gelgings in the second. The judges then ran the sections as if they were separate classes handing out placed rosettes at the end of each section, Jenny Wren 'won' the mares and had a red 1st rosette. Waxwing Paintbox 'won' the geldings and had a 1st rosette, Hisley Saunter was second. Then the judges asked only the first and second placed ponies to return, not the top five from each section as the schedule stipulated. The first and second mares and geldings did a trot around and lined up and then Waxwing 'won' again and Hisley Saunter was pulled in second, as Waxwing had already qualified Hisley Saunter got the ticket. Later after the class the results were posted which showed Jenny Wren had in fact been given 8 marks more than Hisley Saunter. The judges obviously treated the final judging as a championship and disregarded their marks from earlier.
I would have understood if there were only a couple of marks in it and Jenny Wren hadn't looked as good in the 'championship' but she looked fantastic and went beautifully.
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Post by nli on Jun 25, 2007 8:39:33 GMT
But surely the judges cant disregard the marks thats ridiculous!
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Post by not fair on Jun 25, 2007 10:29:35 GMT
This incident needs sorting out the MARKS decide who qualifies and if the judges have made a mistake it will have to be put right no matter what. There was only 1 class not 2 and had all those ponies been in together the pony with the highest marks would take the ticket, previously every year at cheshire the c+ds were judged seperatley as 2 classes but came back together for the results only 1 pony can take ticket. Lincoln Show is at fault here and HOYS need informing there has been a huge mistake made here.
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Post by mockery on Jun 25, 2007 17:13:13 GMT
I agree. I would be gutted if i lost out on a hoys ticket if were 8 marks ahead of the other pony. Thats awful, especially in a first ridden where kids are involved! What a mockery and waste of money
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Post by Shame on Jun 25, 2007 21:57:30 GMT
This sounds like a total farce, what if they take the ticket off the kiddie who thinks they have qualified? How gutted would they be, poor thing
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Post by steward on Jun 25, 2007 23:39:40 GMT
Its a terrible shame as the exmoor went so well! We asked the steward what was going on and he said it was down to David Hinde and that he should know the rules better than anyone given his standing on the NPS!!!! They judged it like a championship class which was a farce, what was the point of giving marks?? After the farce at cheshire with only 1 judge doing the hoys LR/FR (which according to grandstand media is unacceptable) we now have a lincoln disaster!
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Post by not fair on Jun 26, 2007 7:03:34 GMT
In reply to shame it would be very sad on the child that thinks they have qualified however they havent and the poor child that has has not. Who owns the exmoor pony do they not realise they have qualified if it was my pony i would be sorting this mess out as far as i am concerned the people with Saunter know they have not qualified everyone looks at the marks.
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Post by 2 Judges on Jun 26, 2007 7:04:43 GMT
We asked the steward what was going on and he said it was down to David Hinde and that he should know the rules better than anyone given his standing on the NPS!!!!
Why just David Hinde? Didn't Jayne Patterson have a say in the final placings? Poor jockey on Jenny Wren, she must be devastated.
Couldn't believe they kept the Lead Reins in the ring during the storm. Some of those poor little jockeys were terrified. A few had to leave the ring because the leaders took the jockeys off the ponies to comfort them! I know the dismount rule but surely a bit of discretion could have been used.
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Post by rules on Jun 26, 2007 7:08:33 GMT
There is now so much confusion over these m&m hoys qualifiers, surely hoys should come up with some proper rules.
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Post by penny clifford on Jun 26, 2007 7:17:25 GMT
feel really sorry for the people involved with this farce , when this happened to us last year at the Royal , we were told by HOYS that it is the points that decide the class !!! and on the event of a tie the highest show mark takes the class , so i would think that if you are 8 marks ahead -- you should win, also HOYS will not send 2 through from one show ( we tried that last year ) and they will take it off the child as we were told " you have not qualified until we verify the results " -- hence no more qualifying rosettes ! ( sorry chaps ) question ? did the people put in an objection at the show ? also when will HOYS gives us some rules !! i really fell for the people as having been in the same situation last year --
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Post by mockery on Jun 26, 2007 10:02:41 GMT
It stated in the schedule that if the class is splint then the top 5 from each section should go back in to recieve placings. There was nothing about it being judged as a championship. The judges were in the wrong. Every hoys m&m first ridden we have been in this year has been a farce. Hoys need to produce some rules when the classes are split as every show is doing it differently! At EANPS the top 10 were judged all over again!
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Post by not fair on Jun 26, 2007 10:09:49 GMT
We do not need any more rules the rules are clear as Penny as just stated the highest marks win end of story there has been a mistake made by the judge and the exmoor pony has qualified but HOYS need inforning
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Post by do something on Jun 26, 2007 11:15:27 GMT
Can they not do something about it because at cheshire county the As and Bs were split then the top 5 went in and they were then placed according to all the marks in the class the sec A won with highest and then the sec B 2nd with second highest. No one could complain as it was jusdged like a normal class. I think thats the way it should be done and i think there are going to be many splits in tht class as there are so many As and Bs.
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Post by nli on Jun 26, 2007 12:53:42 GMT
quote "We asked the steward what was going on and he said it was down to David Hinde and that he should know the rules better than anyone given his standing on the NPS!!!!" Ohhhhhh dear...........Should have gone to Specsavers Seriously this just should not happen!!!! Whatever the outcome both judges should have made themselves aquainted with the rules. Both should be reprimanded for this.
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Post by Bell on Jun 26, 2007 13:21:05 GMT
Problem is, the judges will not be reprimanded. Like at Wincanton a fews years ago when Mrs Philllipson Stow and Mrs Impey didn't use the HOYS marks. Complaints were made, the poor competitors who qualified were disqualified but the Judges got away scot free and were still out judging HOYS qualifiers the next season!! UNBELIEVABLE!
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Post by I wonder on Jun 26, 2007 13:35:33 GMT
Why do the shows keep asking these judges? there have been some strange judges invited this year to officiate at hoys qualifiers.
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Post by ferret on Jun 26, 2007 20:44:04 GMT
has anyone heard anything official about this ? Any one have any connections with the people involved ? Poor people who think they have / havent qualified ...be interesting to see if anything is in H and H this week
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