|
Post by tiptoes on Jun 27, 2007 10:37:05 GMT
Does anyone have the marks for the top 6 in the M&M Lead Rein - reason i ask is that I have been told I had the same total mark as sixth place but had the higher ride mark.......but not placed.....it is aboout time they placed down to 10th like PUK or 12th like BSPS - especially when you have the quantities that enter these classes....let's see now.....40 odd at £21 (net) a time.........
|
|
|
Post by nli on Jun 27, 2007 11:22:22 GMT
Word is that complaints were made at Lincoln about the qualification in the class, so it might go to the right qualifier after all, anyone know how we can find out?
|
|
|
Post by wastherenot on Jun 27, 2007 11:28:21 GMT
I seem to remember some similiar sort of mix up some years ago at Wincanton(?) did'nt 2 go through in the end...please don't shoot me if i am wrong!
|
|
|
Post by layla on Jun 27, 2007 12:00:42 GMT
They re scheduled the qualifiers at another show, I think the forester went through at the second show and another one. If I recall correctly (probably not) the problem there was that the judges used the 60/40 marks system, used by BSPS for the SP/SHP
|
|
|
Post by Observer on Jun 27, 2007 12:57:24 GMT
Just for the record In response to “do something’s” post regarding the A & B class at Cheshire the top 5 ponies of each section did go back into the ring they were then made to do a go-round but only a champion and reserve pony were pulled forward by the judges and not by the calling out of numbers, the remaining 8 ponies were not placed according to marks. I had no reason to go look at the mark sheets to see if the correct pony got its ticket on the day it was just a mere observation but this seems to be exactly what happened in the FR at Lincoln but for some reason it was perfectly acceptable to qualify a pony “Championship style” the day before.
Before we continue having a go at Mr Hinde & his co judge there seems to be a re occurring problem with the HOYS LR & FR. NPS rules state that when more than 20 in a class the class can be split however judge feels is necessary. If in the event that the class is split, separate prize money and rosettes must be awarded to each section in which case the sections will be deemed as two completely separate classes &. I am assuming the 2 judges at Lincoln judged the qualifier as a championship and awarded qualification to a pony they both agreed with on the day, quite a logical way to do so in my opinion. Having said that this then conflicts with the HOYS 5 and 5 split class recomendation. Having spoken to the NPS they stated this conflict between the rules has happened several times this year. NPS and HOYS going to have to have a get together and amend the rules.
I feel that rather than coming on here to vent your dissatisfaction with the judges it may be more productive and beneficial to encourage HOYS to produce some rules and prevent this situation from happening in the future.
|
|
|
Post by not fair on Jun 27, 2007 13:05:51 GMT
Observer you are wrong the rules state the marks must be 50/50 and the highest mark wins and the judges did not follow those rules so the wrong pony was awarded the qualification and no doubt the mistake will be rectified if HOYS are alerted to the problem, just as the Royal had to amend the mess made last year there will be a full set of marks made available and the highest mark wins simple, they can split the class into sections not 2 classes as there is only 1 ticket on offer
|
|
|
Post by quest x on Jun 27, 2007 16:09:59 GMT
hoys have been spoken to and histley saunter did qualify. x
|
|
|
Post by tiptoes on Jun 27, 2007 17:00:59 GMT
Gosh - hope they make that clear for all future qualifiers. Lincoln have now changed the M&M Lead rein result - 6th place - lady in the office was VERY apologetic (steward error). This is the second change they have had to make but the weather conditions were atrocious and the mark sheets very wet !!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by special on Jun 27, 2007 18:23:22 GMT
did see the marks and the sheet wasnt that wet just a problem with their final marks!!!!!!!!!! totaly agree that the placings should go down to 10th espcially when you have 40 in the class at £21 a time.
|
|
|
Post by 4fun on Jun 28, 2007 14:45:12 GMT
So 'quest x' is that HOY's final decision, or are we waiting to hear the result of an appeal?
|
|
|
Post by ickelford on Jun 28, 2007 15:33:48 GMT
I doubt there will be an appeal from Katy M-P and co. now that S. Jenny Wren qualified at Norfolk - unless the 2nd at norfolk complains...and so on...could potentially go on and on
|
|
|
Post by quest x on Jun 28, 2007 16:59:00 GMT
No it is official from hoy's that he has quifified because the class was judged under N.P.S rules aswell . x
|
|
|
Post by unconfirmed on Jun 28, 2007 20:02:09 GMT
I think Katy M-P and co will definitely be following it up as it was her other pony that was 2nd at Norfolk!!
|
|
|
Post by norfolk on Jun 29, 2007 7:22:22 GMT
it was Katy's pony that was second at Norfolk, surely she wants both Jenny Wren and Hucklberry to go through, and rightly so.
I thought HOYS was nothing to do with NPS and therefore it should be judged under the HOYS rules and not NPS.
If hoys allows the Saunter qualification to stand then it makes the whole thing a joke!
|
|
|
Post by not fair on Jun 29, 2007 8:00:48 GMT
I cannot belive what is going on what have the NPS got to do with it HOYS classes have their own rules and this is making a mockery of what happened at the Royal last year once the marks were sorted out last year the people who thought they had qualified had the qualification taken off them and no matter how much people protested HOYS insisted that the rules had to be upheld so how can they change their minds this year LR /FR classes have the same rules 50 marks show 50 marks conformation and the highest mark wins if we do not sort this out what will happen next i think everyone needs to lobby HOYS as it could be you who gets cheated next time.
|
|
|
Post by guest b on Jun 29, 2007 8:30:06 GMT
lincoln fr and ld classes were under nps rules as well as they were qualifiers for their show.please also remember that there is a small child in this its her first time to qualifer fr, and with all going on puts a mar on what is suppose to be a happy time.
|
|
|
Post by not fair on Jun 29, 2007 10:40:26 GMT
Guest b what about the child who should have qualified if that was your child would you be happy to let another child have the HOYS ticket because hand on heart i wouldnt. We all know the rules and if they are broken they have to be put right the little girl on saunter has been badly treated by the judges no one else
|
|
|
Post by mockery on Jun 29, 2007 16:31:37 GMT
Even if it was under nps rules there was NO mention of a 'fr championship' in the schedule. Think D Hind made up his own set of rules that day
|
|
|
Post by Hum on Jun 29, 2007 16:59:21 GMT
Next year he'll be able to make up them all coz he'll be NPS Chairman
|
|
|
Post by solihull on Jun 29, 2007 17:02:08 GMT
The First Riddens were judged like this at Area XI several years ago
|
|
|
Post by help on Jun 29, 2007 20:51:31 GMT
I think to be chairman of the nps you need to attend all meetings and be very involved, in fact it's a 24/7 job. Don't really think dh has the attributes.
|
|
|
Post by council watcher on Jun 29, 2007 20:57:49 GMT
Next year he'll be able to make up them all coz he'll be NPS Chairman This is totally incorrect decisions are made by democratic votes of the whole council not one person. David Hinde works hard for the NPS. Perhaps you could your name forward, I will nominate you
|
|
|
Post by nli on Jul 1, 2007 7:30:54 GMT
Dear Council Watcher
Perhaps you can explain HOW and WHY the mares and geldings first ridden class at Lincoln was clearly marked then jane patterson (who incidently has qualified hisley saunter before) and david hinde decided to do a championship and then disregarded the marks and just chose the qualifier?? as everyone else apart from 'guest x' feels this makes a mockery of the whole system. Especially as NPS have been cited on here as the reason Hisley Saunter has qualified? because it was under your rules as well? thanks
|
|
|
Post by nffan on Jul 1, 2007 11:17:01 GMT
I have read this thread and have no connection to any of the people or ponies, but I have to say you are all so quick to name the judges and blame them, poor Mr Hinde, if you all keep trying really hard there will be no more need to complain as all the judges will be fed up and quit judging, then there will be no shows....gosh what will people complain about then.
Don't forget the one rule no-one has mentioned 'The Judges Decision is Final' either get over it or quit showing, its life things happen all the time not everyone will agree with.
Any chance of putting threads on praising judges but no we only here complaints....
My turn for the firing line now I suppose
Penny...
|
|
|
Post by guest x on Jul 3, 2007 8:28:36 GMT
in ref to j patterson qualiering saunter before, i would just like to say h saunter has took 13 hoys tickets in he,s ridden career. ranging from lr,fr,open and whps .i think he have the tickets of any other
|
|
|
Post by dartmoor fan on Jul 4, 2007 10:43:24 GMT
If we are all so unhappy with the results of the first ridden then its time that we stood up and asked hoy's to change so that it is run at every show under hoy's rules only and not in conjunction with any other class and only on the points system until us the competitors stand up and make a noise by not competing in these classes then will something get done. This has now happened at several different shows and i for one would rather ask for changes rather that slat judges and ponies both theses ponies went lovely one the day but in my opinion and it is only mine as it was judged as a championship jenny should have won marks aside she still out shown saunter it is sad that saunter has been in the firing line of this sad tale as he is a lovely dartmoor and a nice ambassador for the breed.
|
|
|
Post by marie on Jul 4, 2007 10:44:51 GMT
both judges involved are good judges. how do you think they must feel if they read this . especially miss p who i know will be devastated at the thought that people are saying these comments . Miss p always conducts herself in an honest and professional way when she is both outside the ring and in the ring judging. yes the system needs to be looked at and rectified . what has happened at lincoln should not happen again BUT neither judges or competitors involved should be hurt by all this 'gossip'.
|
|
|
Post by wincanton on Jul 4, 2007 12:58:36 GMT
they marked out of 10 or something tottla rediculous and i refuse to ever go under that judge again they should have been judging long enough and done enough to know how to mark hoys qualifiers!!!! they re-scheduled the classes to frome show
I know last year at the royal there was a mis calculation in marks and at cornwall they wer not added up correctly although it didnt affect those who qualified
|
|
|
Post by dartmoor fan on Jul 4, 2007 15:41:24 GMT
according to nps rules when the class is split it must be judged as to separate classes and this is where the championship has come from like i said before the judges are not the problem The problem will keep arising if these classes are for other qualifications as well .Both JUDGES are very good and well respected but with the system as it is then it leaves it wide open as the marks where not used in the end to make the final outcome again instead of not going under these judges get at hoy's to change the system that would be surly a much better and fairer outcome for everyone.
|
|
|
Post by solitaire on Jul 4, 2007 20:34:41 GMT
I cannot believe the lack of respect for judges these days - what is the showing world coming to as said earlier well done you are doing an excellent job soon the judges wont bother and then what will you all do???
|
|