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Post by Shetland exhibitor on Jul 2, 2007 11:15:20 GMT
My thoughts are with the owner of the Shetlands involved - fingers crossed the blood tests give good news! There were several exhibitors affected by it, all ponies appear to be on the mend now. After a week of being told blood results weren't in it finally emerged that they had never been sent as there was dispute over who would be paying for it. Despite the bloods being taken at the request of a RHASS official. My own vet has now taken over and at my request has blood tested and swabbed. Although all vets are still in agreeance it isn't strangles. The way the RHASS handled the situation has disappointed me somewhat and I will be lodging all my concerns in writing. I would have been happy to pay for the lab fee to have my pony's blood tested so that we could get an accurate diagnosis and treat accordingly. It was bad enough that we had to wait several hours for a show official to arrive on site to deal with the hysteria that was brewing, but we were also promised that they would respect our wishes to have the area blocked off from the general public but the following morning most of the barriers were down (including the supposedly quarantined area where sick ponies were still on site) and the public were circulating the area again ignoring the 'please do not touch horses' stickers on the doors.
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Post by shonat on Jul 2, 2007 12:28:16 GMT
I could not agree more about the official photographer at the Royal Highland show. I have competed here for past 6 years. Having won the Royal Highland several times and been 2nd and 3rd with my Welsh and M&M ponies, I do not have one single photograph to remind me of their success at Scotlands most prestigious show. This year on opening day, I asked a friend to speak to his brother who is Operations Manager for the Highland, to please change the photographer for next year.
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Post by mara on Jul 4, 2007 22:33:46 GMT
The horse section officials will be meeting up shortly & I know at least one of them is keen to have feedback on this year's show. The photos by this particular company are always dire - they were cutting of heads of riders in ridden classes at Blair last year - even my 5 year old can do better than that If enough people make the same complaint about the photographers then they will have to do something but I suppose it's whoever is prepared to pay the price for a stand to some extent. The committee will not accept anonymous letters however - please send them a constructive, polite & signed letter. And no - I'm nothing to do with the show.
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Post by Guestless on Jul 5, 2007 8:53:15 GMT
If enough people make the same complaint about the photographers then they will have to do something but I suppose it's whoever is prepared to pay the price for a stand to some extent. I hope you're right but, having been involved in a similar large scale event, I suspect the stand will go to the highest bidder with little or no concern about the quality of the service provided.
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Post by scottish judge on Jul 5, 2007 10:49:19 GMT
I spoke to a photographer in the ring on Sunday in the torrential rain. Apparently he doesn't usually take the horse photographs there, but the woman (from the same company) who normally does them had been taken really ill on the first day of the show, so hadn't been able to work. He was a really nice chap, doing his best in very difficult conditions.
The Grossicks who are usually excellent were also there, but presumably doing mainly champions and jumping.
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Post by mara on Jul 5, 2007 17:03:13 GMT
Grossicks are way better than the other company. I struggled to find any decent ones of us at one show from the other lot - my mum's partner took better ones ringside & it was his first ever horsey day out.
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Highlander
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Post by Highlander on Jul 8, 2007 15:30:04 GMT
Following all the whinging about the way the Highland Show handled the virus and the fact a number of "new people" to Highland Show showing feel they should not stay with their ponies for the 4 day duration - here are my comments as posted on the Highland Pony Talk Board. The Royal Highland Show is OUR "Annual Event" and "Holiday" and has been all my life. My Great Grandfather and Grandfather had Reserve Champion at the RHAS at Paisley in 1911 with a HiPo called Mountain Polly and I am sure our family have been there almost every year since, barring national disasters. The last two days Sat and Sun are great and you get a chance to unwind and find more time to talk to everybody and visit stands, friends and trade stalls. I would hate to see this national livestock tradition trivialised to being anything less. However I do sympathise with those who do not understand what it means to the likes of us. There are friends we only see from one year to the next at the RHAS and many of them with nothing to do with Highland Ponies. It is a truly great social event as well as a shop window for Scottish Agriculture and Highland Ponies - I have seen nothing to equal it anywhere else in the world and I have been around. PS: The flu thing is just a blip in the big scheme of things and a risk you take attending shows - and nothing anybody does will make it any different. Do not think vacinnations would help or are they desirable - it would have done no good against this strain anyway. PPS: Most sections at the Highland are very well supported and some over subscribed (Highland Cattle for instance where some entries were returned) so they must be getting something right. A few people not wanting to go will have little effect on the show and nobody is forcing you to go. The Highland Show has improved in my lifetime and I have very few whinges about it unlike many posting on here - so just stay at home if it makes you happy and stop complaining. The show is run mainly by volunteer directors and stewards for genuine enthusiasts - so show them some support and appreciation instead of all the negative comments. They give way more than they receive !!!! If you think you can do better then get off your soapbox and join their ranks. Think we will need to host a big Centenary Celebration for 100 years since our first major win at the Highland in 4 years time - tickets will be on sale nearer the time. www.bigboxoffice.com Thats me done - phew
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Post by whiskygalore on Jul 8, 2007 17:36:01 GMT
yes thats fine if you are only going to do one big show. if you live in the north of scotland and want to do some of the southern shows it takes two days to get there, two to get back and at least 2 down there. If you want to stay all week at the highland that fine by me, all people are saying - and have been for at least 20 years on and off - is that 2 days max is enough for most people, so why not have those days as must stay and let people choose whether they want to be part of the zoo entertainment for the other 2 days the problems arise with stressed out people, due to various factors eg flooded stables, noisey and often very drunk people creating havoc for everyone else. 2 days is fine and good fun, longer depends on a number of personal factors and isn't necessarily good for the ponies, many of whom live out for most of the year and so also become stressed
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brs
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Post by brs on Jul 8, 2007 17:37:35 GMT
Sorry if you think some of us are whining Highlander but I think you speak out of turn on many points!!!
Flu is nothing to take lightly!!! One pony has died and my pony very nearly died as a result. How dare you make a mockery of that fact by branding it a minor blip. He is our best performance pony and may never compete again as a result - sorry if I cannot see it as a minor blip. Would you like to explain to your children they can't ride their pony this summer and may never again?!
It was poorly managed by the RHASS, on the Saturday night there was a meeting where a quarantined area was marked out which included ourselves. Sunday morning I went out and someone had moved the barriers, the pony next door to ours was sick (deemed unfit to travel) and people were at this pony then working their way down the line touching ours, it was inevitable mine would get it that afternoon.
The RHASS requested blood samples from sick ponies at the show with the promise they would foot the lab fee and get back to us on the results. A week later I had a very sick pony and needed the blood results for my vet to act accordingly - I was told they were not ready. My vet called to be told they had never been sent as the RHASS were no longer wanting to pay the £30 lab fee. A fee I would have happily paid given the choice to get my pony treated accordingly, instead it had gone to secondary infection in him and he was critically ill. It was at that point I had no choice but test and swab (at MY Expense) to get him treated quickly and efficiently. Very poor management in my opinion!!! That was when the influenza showed up on the nasal swabs. Have the Highland Show made any great effort to notify exhibitors (other than a poorly scanned letter from the willy vets on their website? No effort has been made as far as I am aware! Many people will be at home believing their ponies have a mild respiratory illness when in fact they have a potentially life threatening virus.
It should have been treated as serious until proven otherwise, IMO (and that of my vet's) and perhaps it would have saved many people a great deal of heartache and expense.
I may be 'new' to the RHS but I have exhibited 4 day stock every year since 1997 and always enjoy it as my (working) holiday too. I usually take a good few ponies which is not cheap. I'd quite happily go and spend the week there with ponies again if I could get some guarantee that the ponies would be properly cared for and we would get value for money. I sure as hell am not going to fork out half a grand again to have ponies standing in wet dirty stables (because not enough straw was provided and floors were flooded) and have my animals put at unecessary risk by show officials going against veterinary advice and breaking promises. I'm afraid I value the welfare of my ponies more than I value a rosette and a weeks 'holiday'.
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hipo
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Post by hipo on Jul 8, 2007 17:48:52 GMT
Echo BRS 100%.
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Post by 4legged on Jul 8, 2007 18:44:48 GMT
Totally agree with BRS. And well done for doing the responsible thing and letting us all know what the illness is. I wasn't showing in the HH section this year at the RHS and I for one have appreciated the honesty shown here by BRS and her information as it gave me a good incentive not to take my ponies to a show this weekend, where there was likely to be, and in fact were, ponies that had been at the RHS, or from the same studs. Sadly not everyone is as sensible as BRS has been and will have taken potentially 'at risk' ponies out again since the RHS for the sake of a rosette.
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Highlander
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Post by Highlander on Jul 8, 2007 20:26:16 GMT
BRS I was at the meeting on the Saturday night and helped erect the barriers !! I was not trying to get at you, our pony was directly opposite the ones effected and came home with the virus too. We often pick stuff up at shows and it is a risk you take, I fly a lot and often pick up bugs and virus's on aeroplanes some more serious than others but i do not deem it too big a risk so continue to do it. I am sorry your pony suffered so much and had no idea one had died, was it a direct result of the virus or a combination with something else. I remember one pony was coughing big style in the Shetland lines on the Wednesday night before the show had started. I think the RHAS acted as well as they could in the circumstances considering how busy they were trying to keep things going on the Saturday with the weather. It was only fellow exhibitors that were creating the histeria by rumour and gossip, I was certainly not concerned by it all. The RHAS listened to their vets advice at the time and as for costs of entries how much do you think it costs the RHAS to hire and erect stables, provide straw, haylage and muck removal. Remember they are a not for profit charitable body run for the likes of us all !! Not some big organisation with bottomless pockets.
As for the showing brigade from down south you are welcome to come in for the day and do whatever you do but if you have to show in hand a Highland Pony or other Scottish Native Breed then just follow the society rules and come for the duration - or do not bother at all. The animals are their for the public to see because the show is run for the public and not just for the exhibitors.
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Post by GRRR on Jul 8, 2007 20:29:26 GMT
I would love to be perfect like you Highlander. You seem to think we 'lowly lowanders' have no idea how to do anything or should have an opinion on anything.
If it's not your way, why does that make it the wrong way?
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Highlander
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Post by Highlander on Jul 8, 2007 20:50:40 GMT
The Highland Show is a Scottish Livestock Tradition and many of us are very very happy with the way it is run thankyou. Why are you hiding as a Guest ?? Anyway we do not come down south and tell you how to run your shows.
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Post by noticed it 2 on Jul 8, 2007 20:51:12 GMT
quote Highlander "I remember one pony was coughing big style in the Shetland lines on the Wednesday night before the show had started."
I also exhibited in the heavy horse section at this years RHS and also noticed a shetland pony coughing from Wednesday, in fact it was coughing everytime I went passed it stable, so much so that I soon chose another route to get to my own pony.
It must be remebered that someone took a pony to the RHS with the cough,it didn't just fall out the sky and land there with flight easy090. Some irresponsible person took and ill pony and it in turn has made many more ponies ill. Sadly though, every time we take our ponies to a show and mix with others we run this risk. It is a great shame that the chance of a rosette for some people is worth more than the health of their own pony and those belonging to other exhibitors. Unfortunately not all pony exhibitors have the integrity that we would like to think they should have.
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Highlander
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Post by Highlander on Jul 8, 2007 21:12:01 GMT
We did ask why that pony was coughing on the Wed night but somebody had a plausible answer in the Shetland lines so we did not ask anymore about it. Joyce remembers someone saying it was either a hay or haylage allergy.
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brs
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Post by brs on Jul 8, 2007 21:13:41 GMT
The pony who died had COPD so every possibility it was coughing all week. However this does not mean it was the source of the virus it wasn't even in the quarantined area. We can all speculate about the source of the illness, none of us can say for certain where it came from.
As the vet said the pony may have looked ok at home then went to the show and symptoms showed up. Most of mine ran a temperature for a day or so before any physical symptoms showed up.
If someone did knowingly take a pony to the show with the virus then I hope they haven't suffered the stress and heartache so many of us have. It is an offence under the welfare act I believe to knowingly spread a contagious illness.
I don't believe all that could have been done was done. I have to wonder if the barriers had remained in place in the quarantined area if I would have escaped the illness. Then when my pony desperately needed treatment I was blatently lied to about the blood samples. At a time where every hour counted now as a result my pony went a further 5 days before swab results were available goodness knows what lasting damage that may have done. My own vet and the show vet fully agree with that sentiment. I can only be thankful that My ponies were vaccinated otherwise it may have been much worse.
I appreciate it is a risk we take but at the same time I feel the show needs a contingency plan to limit spread to quarantine efficiently. At the meeting we were promised they would keep the public out of the area, why was that then overruled. if I thought they were going to remove us from quarantine my ponies would have been removed from the show at whatever cost right then.
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Post by whisky1 on Jul 8, 2007 21:21:01 GMT
oh dear highlander, not very happy i think you would find if you asked that a number of people are not and have not been happy about the weeks stay for a very long time. Yes its grand to catch up on the gossip, after all not everyone comes on here, but It just isn't necessary for all the ponies to stay all week - unless there owners/breeders want to. surely it would be possible to make this optional, those who want to stay for the week can and the others could go home after the second day, unless maybe they had won the supreme and then they could stay at the societies expense! This already applies to the hunters, and theres plenty going on to entertain the public. regarding the flying - if i thought i was going to get a particulally nasty virus i would stay at home and video conference, its much more environmentaly friendly
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Highlander
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Post by Highlander on Jul 8, 2007 21:21:41 GMT
I was opposite the barriers and they did stay in place for the rest of the week and were still there after all the horses had left on Monday morning. My horse was the last to leave. Not sure what else could have been done to and no idea why you have to keep trying to blame the RHAS. They do have contingency plans and that is why the Horse Committee met before that meeting. They did not make a promise to exclude the public from the horse lines. Any spread was far more likely fto have been from horse to horse or by handlers. What was a pony with COPD doing at the show, so it died of that and not the virus then ? Ponies die all the time, we had one die a few days before the show and one die the day my wife went home from the show, old family ponies, not Highlands I hasten to add, and we are not blaming the RHAS for it. Our ponies enjoy the Highland as mush as we do, all the attention, socialising and being waited on day and night. It is the best education any young pony can get and it did not do me and my brothers any harm either I travel round the world looking for oil and you need to go and dig holes for that, you cannot do it from your living room at home unfortunately. I am carbon neutral because I find as much new oil as I burn - Ha Ha
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Post by noticed it 2 on Jul 8, 2007 21:23:51 GMT
quote brs "The pony who died had COPD so every possibility it was coughing all week. "
If the pony suffered from copd to that extent, perhaps it should have been left at home outside, instead of inflicting it being cooped up in a stable, in a stuffy environment like the stables lines at the RHS are. Another example of the desire for a rosette being put in front of a pony's welfare.
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Post by Concerned on Jul 8, 2007 21:32:43 GMT
I was opposite the barriers and they did stay in place for the rest of the week and were still there after all the horses had left on Monday morning. My horse was the last to leave. The barriers didn't stay in place for the rest of the week - the ones on the isolation area were put back correctly on the Sunday morning after they had been moved. At the meeting the society promised to keep to the wishes of the exibitors - the vast majority of whom wanted to keep the public out to avoid further spreading.
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brs
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Post by brs on Jul 8, 2007 21:33:06 GMT
The barriers were only around the empty stables of theponies who left on our row on the sunday morning Highlander I saw it with my own eyes and moved them back to where the vet said they should have done. In talks with a RHASS official and the attending vet they DID guarantee that the barriers would remain in place around my ponies and the sick pony next door. The following morning they were gone! Can I just point out the pony with COPD was not mine, it had copd but died as a result of the virus I am led to believe. I'm not commenting on the owners decision to take the pony to the show more that because it ws coughing doesn't make it the source of the virus I also appreciate that ponies die, I'm not a complete idiot thank you. It doesnt make it any easier when it happens and we all hope that our ponies will die a dignified painless death. My pony very nearly died last week are we and the children not allowed to feel upset and distressed about this. and yes I do blame poor management and advice at the time for it spreading. We were given a promise and it was overruled in our absense. Compromising the welfare of our animals, being a paying exhibitor as you are yourself I think I have every reason to vent that concern!!!!
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Post by Laaadeedaaa on Jul 8, 2007 23:21:02 GMT
The pony who was coughing all week supposedly had asthma and even had an inhaler! Vet checked it out and there was nothing wrong with it [other than the asthma]
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Highlander
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Post by Highlander on Jul 9, 2007 5:12:26 GMT
Quote by "concerned guest" : "At the meeting the society promised to keep to the wishes of the exibitors - the vast majority of whom wanted to keep the public out to avoid further spreading."
That is simply not true, remember I was at the meeting too. There was no vote taken to establish what anybody wanted or to establish if there was a majority. The society only said that barriers would be erected round the boxes that their vet had recommended and I helped the directors and officials in attendance to do this. In our line those barriers remained for the duration of the show. Because it was a virus I am quite sure it was a case of trying to shut the stable door after the horses had bolted. But what else could be done. The RHAS followed the advice of their vet, what more would you expect them to do. Releasing everybody to travel home and spread something which at that time was not fully established was not the answer either. Yet many irresponsible owners wanted to do that too and rightly the RHAS asked them to stay where they were.
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brs
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Post by brs on Jul 9, 2007 5:36:31 GMT
But the barriers did not remain around the recommended boxes that is the point! On Sunday morning there were general public amongst my ponies and the ill pony next door. That in my book is negligent. Ok it was just a cough and snotty nose for most but for some it has been much more.
The ponies were let home the following day anyway so I can't see in what way shape or form keeping us there benefited anything other than the show and the general public. By the sunday and Monday even more animals had it so it only made the problem worse. No point in a half hearted attempt at preventing spread. My vets opinion was that the ponies should have been allowed home and isolated as necessary or remained in the show for a 14 day quarantine period.
If a suitable quarantine area had been in place for such an eventuallity it simply wouldn't have spread like it did! When I fork out that much money to exhibit at the show I expect that my wishes and that of the attending vet concerning my ponies welfare will be adhered to, and they weren't.
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Highlander
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Post by Highlander on Jul 9, 2007 7:11:44 GMT
brs there are isolation boxes at the Highland for isolating equines but not in the numbers that were required for this. You may remember I spoke at the meeting and pointed out it would be impossible to let everybody go home early because of the chaos it would cause because a lot of people had their vehicles all parked together in the Forward Parking Area and it would be almost impossible to get them out safely. I have no idea why you keep trying to blame that RHAS for this. It was not their fault and nor did they compound the problem. Just accept it was fate and a result of a combination of circumstances - nobody is really to blame. You pay a fair entry based on the costs the RHAS has for you being there. If you expect a load of extras like a huge quarantine area and loads of spare "quarantine enforcement officers" then expect to pay more for it -- and the knock on effect would be less exhibitors as more boxes and show area would be tied up doing nothing. If you do not believe you are getting value for money and you think the RHAS are incompetent then vote with your feet and do not come next year. Not sure many will follow your example. But we will see in 2008 by which time it will all be forgotten about.
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Post by Concerned on Jul 9, 2007 8:09:40 GMT
Quote by "concerned guest" : "At the meeting the society promised to keep to the wishes of the exibitors - the vast majority of whom wanted to keep the public out to avoid further spreading." That is simply not true, remember I was at the meeting too. There was no vote taken to establish what anybody wanted or to establish if there was a majority. The society only said that barriers would be erected round the boxes that their vet had recommended and I helped the directors and officials in attendance to do this. In our line those barriers remained for the duration of the show. Our memories from the meeting are different then - in my opinion they agreed to keep the barriers up when they said 'OK' - there was noone between me and the 'officials'. I don't see how anyone can say that their handling was perfect - the fact that two sets of ponies were allowed home early on the Saturday before anyone really knew what they were dealing with, that barriers were initially just erected outside the empty stables (!?!), that when the first official came down to the area that official agreed that the action that had been taken was the correct thing to do (as in isolate the whole area), that the barriers were then removed apart from the isolation area which in itself was wrong - the isolation area included some ponies and excluded some ponies from the same exhibitor (!?!), that it took so long for any official to come down to the area after they had been asked for, that the society agreed to test the ponies but then quibbled with their appointed show vets about whether to test them. I don't believe that the Society were to blame for the initial infection, unless of course it was down to the dire state of the stable when we arrived, but their handling of the situation wasn't particularly good and could have led to more ponies catching the flu.
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Post by Hipo owner on Jul 9, 2007 8:14:26 GMT
Highlander you are very agressive, i believe you got into trouble once before on another forum for being so outspoken. You obviously "Farm" your ponies and dont have the relationship with them that most people on this site have. And as for the mention of not being able to get cars out because they were all forward parked and blocking others in, well that is a health and safety issue for a start. I too think the ruling about keeping the ponies at the show for the duration is completely out of date, think that North of the Border are holding fast to this rule in order to keep the competition south of the border away.........
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brs
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Post by brs on Jul 9, 2007 8:56:13 GMT
I am not blaming the RHS for the virus being there, however the management of the situation has been poor on many counts. The opinion of myself and my vet. The vets opinion is also that it would not have spread as it did had they quarantined quicker.
At the end of the day I have nine ponies at home, all valued members of our family not numbers in a herd and their welfare is my first concern here. Whether it was knowingly or innocently a pony has been brought to the showground with flu and it has spread not the fault of the RHS even veterinary examinations at the gate may not have picked that up. But when the symptoms were picked up action should have been taken quicker to do some damage limitation at least. It should have been treated as serious until proven otherwise.
My issue is not with 4 day stabling, being there for four days works in our favour as we usually compete on the Thursday, Friday and Sunday. But if the ponies are to be there that length of time then I need some guarantee that the situation will be reviewed and changes made to the benefit of the exhibitor.
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Highlander
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Post by Highlander on Jul 9, 2007 9:14:51 GMT
HiPo Owner you obvioulsy mistake stating facts and my opinion as agression which it is certainly not. We are Highland Pony breeders and when I was very young probably had 200 ponies, in our family now we probably only have about 50, but I do have a personal relationship with my own ones. I think you know how the forward parking works and it is only a health and safety issue if people try to leave early, it is set up that way to ease traffic flow on the Sunday night. I was suspended from another board indeed and it was not for the reasons you suggest and that board chose not to reveal the real reasons. It was actually for complaining about the way they had unfairly treated my wife and how she was being picked on and having posts removed if you must know. I was reinstated as a full member of that board and my wife because of the treatment she received chose not to rejoin. We all like the Highland in its current format and if you don't then show somewhere else - but please do not try to change our show. I assume when you refer to the way we "Farm" our ponies you are not trying to be derogatory in referring to the way we run them in large family groups on natural rough grazing, like they would in the wild, and like the Highland Ponies on Rhum do. If you came to visit you would see that they are all very affectionate and well handled and probably the most biddable ponies around which only goes to prove that our system works. BRS - I am intrigued to know what "damage limitation" action would have made a real difference to the size of the outbreak. The ponies had all been shown and paraded together on the Thursday and Friday before it came to light anyway - so any cross contamination had already happened. My really good friend Luchag (Gaelic for Mouse) showing of his rosette in the HiPo lines on Friday after the parade and before the quarantine barriers were erected down the middle of this line to section off the ponies on the right. Arisaig Luchag Mhor of Creag Dhubh - yearling colt, friend, companion and family member. Official Winner of the Longest Name Competition RHAS 2007.
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