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Post by Dope testing on Aug 5, 2018 6:39:21 GMT
How lovely to hear that the NPS were dope testing again at the summer champs, hats off to you NPS, gives us hope!
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Post by gillwales on Aug 5, 2018 10:24:31 GMT
this has happened for many years, and very welcome
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Post by janetbushell on Aug 5, 2018 21:16:21 GMT
BSPS always put it on their website when the results are received too
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Wish it was only Dope !
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Post by Wish it was only Dope ! on Aug 12, 2018 14:58:56 GMT
So glad to hear that blood tests are still being completed for dope testing too. Its such a shame to hear on the circuit that this subject is prevalent again this season. Unfortunately though it seems we are moving on from sedatives and calmer's to steroids and other muscle and conditioning drugs. Hoping for the sport that this is not the way forward to gain that red rosette, and would hope that owners would always put their horses and ponies health and wellbeing first and foremost.
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Post by daisycutter on Aug 12, 2018 23:24:47 GMT
Totaly agree, god only knows what these poor ponies feel like.
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Post by gillwales on Aug 13, 2018 9:22:25 GMT
Sadly steroids were around in the 70's, I know of one beautiful little horse that was given them, he ended up being sterile. A side effect of using them, both in mares and stallions. So really, if you are breeding, then they are not worth using.
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Post by nst0708 on Sept 10, 2018 17:39:22 GMT
Is there no way that testing can be done for other products too? I cannot understand if this is a talking point around the shows and in my experience of hearing such stories why are we only testing for sedatives and pain or do we also test for other products that provide a quick fix?? Stories of such kind was rife at the Royal International this year, hopefully they are just stories and carry no truth.
Such a sad sad state of affairs
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Post by Rife on Sept 11, 2018 6:05:07 GMT
Is there no way that testing can be done for other products too? I cannot understand if this is a talking point around the shows and in my experience of hearing such stories why are we only testing for sedatives and pain or do we also test for other products that provide a quick fix?? Stories of such kind was rife at the Royal International this year, hopefully they are just stories and carry no truth. Such a sad sad state of affairs It is rife, they are all at it, heaven only knows why it is being ignored!
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Post by vodka drinkerlol on Sept 11, 2018 10:01:32 GMT
See bsps have put up the summer champs results -well done , but were are the Royal International Results?
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Post by Rife on Sept 11, 2018 12:18:48 GMT
See bsps have put up the summer champs results -well done , but were are the Royal International Results? They have reported that 2 ponies had clear tests, did they really only test 2 ponies??
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Post by VODKA DRINKERLOL on Sept 12, 2018 6:43:28 GMT
Rife thought they tested a few at Royal International - think they tested a couple of m and m
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Post by gillwales on Sept 12, 2018 6:54:21 GMT
How many of us know where to get illegal drugs from? If testing is random then it will not matter how many are tested the chance of being caught should be enough to put off those few that do off, hopefully! It has been established in previous threads how expensive it is to do dope tests, we all moan about the expense of competing so it is a balancing act; by increasing the numbers of ponies tested you will increase the cost of showing and therefore exclude more people from participating. REally it is a loose loose situation. What satisfaction anyone gets from cheating when competing in anything is beyond me.
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AnotherVodkaDrinker
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Post by AnotherVodkaDrinker on Sept 12, 2018 8:52:24 GMT
'How many of us know where to get illegal drugs from?'
I heard the rumour this summer about some household substances being used that are apparently untraceable! So scary, think most of us live in ignorant bliss as to what's really going on out there!! It is strange the RI results havent been posted yet?
I believe with BSPS Summer Champs they took samples from a number of other ponies but they ballot them to go to testing so only 2 are actually done.
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Post by Rife on Sept 12, 2018 9:40:13 GMT
'How many of us know where to get illegal drugs from?' I heard the rumour this summer about some household substances being used that are apparently untraceable! So scary, think most of us live in ignorant bliss as to what's really going on out there!! It is strange the RI results havent been posted yet? I believe with BSPS Summer Champs they took samples from a number of other ponies but they ballot them to go to testing so only 2 are actually done. Like you I am interested to know the results of the RI tests but also question why there is no transparency in the testing procedure. Why do we not know how many samples are taken? Why do we not know that they are balloted? Why is there a foggy mist over everything dope related?
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Post by Until this happens on Sept 16, 2018 17:28:24 GMT
Unless societies are able or willing, to widen random dope tests to include the like of Vodka ( yes really!!) bromide and the latest dodge. Those who do, will continue to do so and get away with it.
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Post by gillwales on Sept 16, 2018 19:50:02 GMT
Who in their right mind would give bromide to their horse or pony? Who first had the thought of giving alcohol to an animal? I assume it does the same to a pony that it does to us, if you see a pony staggering around; dancing on top of a table or nursing a handover....
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Post by Believe it on Sept 16, 2018 21:38:14 GMT
Who in their right mind would give bromide to their horse or pony? Who first had the thought of giving alcohol to an animal? I assume it does the same to a pony that it does to us, if you see a pony staggering around; dancing on top of a table or nursing a handover.... Those who will do anything for a red rosette....
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Post by sallie on Sept 17, 2018 8:14:27 GMT
Bromide has been around for ages - i understand is from vets and used to treat dogs Vodka again has been used for a while and i am to understand its 2 litres which they tube in - all for a 30p red rosette they have moved away from ACP and now use the above and in some places Ritalin - which is used for hyperactivity in children
What make me see red apart from the above is that there is a person still showing for the later part of the season which a positive test - and same horse
I hope societies get together and if you have a positive test with 1 you are banned from all, also sometimes its very oblivious that testing is going to take place , as at 1 very major early may show the drug tester turned up 1 day before to check out the lay of the land and people were heard to say to said tester, oh what are you doing here, your not judging , your not a steward and your society's classes arent on yet - so you must be dope testing!
its the ones in the rings that need caught and it should be testing done at smaller shows
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Post by sallie on Sept 17, 2018 8:15:05 GMT
PS Gillwalles - Vodka just makes them sleepy
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Sept 17, 2018 9:00:59 GMT
Mine got tested - negative, as I knew she would be - at NPS some years ago and they stopped her as she came out of the ring to go straight to the testing box there and then.
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Post by sallie on Sept 17, 2018 9:55:44 GMT
we too were tested at PUK many years ago when it was still at Peterborough -and we too were clean
but its now rife-
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Post by thegroom on Sept 17, 2018 10:46:06 GMT
For the welfare of our beautiful show ponies and horses this must be addressed. I find it truly heartbreaking that this goes on and, in fact, is commonplace. Surely it is time to stop the abuse!
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Post by sallie on Sept 17, 2018 10:57:38 GMT
For the welfare of our beautiful show ponies and horses this must be addressed. I find it truly heartbreaking that this goes on and, in fact, is commonplace. Surely it is time to stop the abuse!
very well said BUT i fear it wont until Shows like HOYS, Royal International , TSR, ban the people involved, but they will squeal that they will be stopped making a living BUT THEY HAVE BROKEN THE RULES - we MUST stand together on this , just look at who is targeted it seems to me and in my opinion the rate of tests done on the pros is less than the test done on the home produced, and before i get accused of pro bashing i am not they do a super job but some of the "newer" kids on the block are at it
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Post by Nohope on Sept 17, 2018 12:55:09 GMT
What I want to know is:
Why is there no 'name and shame' in any sort of media outlet? I know some results are published in society journals, but it should be shouted out for all to see, including the substance tested positive for. Why is there no blanket ban for those who have broken the rules? It's absolutely shameful that they can continue to produce and show in a different society when they have poisoned an innocent creature.
This I feel would really help towards deterring those who are tempted to give it a go. The monetary fine is no deterrent really.
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Post by sallie on Sept 17, 2018 13:18:57 GMT
What I want to know is: Why is there no 'name and shame' in any sort of media outlet? I know some results are published in society journals, but it should be shouted out for all to see, including the substance tested positive for. Why is there no blanket ban for those who have broken the rules? It's absolutely shameful that they can continue to produce and show in a different society when they have poisoned an innocent creature. This I feel would really help towards deterring those who are tempted to give it a go. The monetary fine is no deterrent really. well said as i put forward unless HOYS , RI ban hey will continue, but it should be made public, as if you break any of the society's rules your name is up for months, but doping nope what i think the problem is that the society's wish to let other society's think their lot is clean hence no blame and shame , also heard 1 person who has positive test is a judge and is still judging !!!!!!!
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Post by the showing register on Sept 17, 2018 18:04:37 GMT
Broadly I agree with everyone ... it is the legal side we grapple with. No society has the funds to fight a protracted legal battle but the BSJA fines them takes away the award and then publishes the names. This actually is all you can do without the fear of expensive court proceedings it is also hard to enforce strict liability the racing world have failed on that one.
The reason the BSJA system works is that the animal is proven to have an illegial substance and the keeper has a fine for negligence.
I think you could suspend them until the results of the enquiry and certainly judging others is a bit off.
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Post by Until this happens on Sept 17, 2018 23:00:43 GMT
Thank you TSR for your response and clarity over the legal side of effectively suspending someone’s livelihood. I can understand it is fraught with problems and technicalities. Do you have any views /solutions for societies widening what they test for to include say vodka, bromide And the like? Appreciate the argument that you could be testing for evermore, but these substances seem to be widely known of. I’ve not checked, butdoes bromide and vodka even fall under the heading of prohibited substance?
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Post by sallie on Sept 18, 2018 7:07:36 GMT
Again thank you TSR
I thought anything that doesn't appear in a horses metabolism is either performance en hansing or masking a problem is not allowed so high level of Alcohol should not be allowed
and i agree whole heartily with the statement " I think you could suspend them until the results of the enquiry and certainly judging others is a bit off" Why do not all society's sing from same hymn sheet? why cant we follow the BSJA if that system works?
I really feel people want the name and shame then caring owners can make a informed decisions whether or not to keep animal with that person if pro , and i would reckon most people would vote with their feet and leave , therefore hitting the wrong doers in their pocket - they would soon clean up their act
these are just my personal views
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Post by chelseah01 on Sept 18, 2018 8:47:32 GMT
I also thank you TRS for shedding some light on the situation.
As I see it if the societies wanted to clean up the “sport” they could do so reasonably easily but they don’t have the appetite for it.
If HOYS took drugged/abused animals as seriously as they took an overweight jockey, which although unpleasant, pails into insignificance compared to tubing vodka into any animal, then they could take steps to address the problem.
I don’t know the details of the HOYS levy but assuming there are some 20 qualifiers per class and 55 classes, if each qualifying class has an average of 15 entries then you could raise £33k by increasing the levy per class by £2.00. A price I personally would be more than happy to pay.
With this money you could test 30 animals at HOYS . that would cover 1 winner in each section (15 or 16 sections I believe) and another random placing in the same section. So, for example, 1 winning intermediate and another placed intermediate.
We as competitors have a right to transparency in this area, we have a right to a level playing field and our show animals have a right to be treated kindly and with respect and not abused for the sake of a win.
Showing is out of control to the detriment of our lovely horses and ponies!
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Post by sallie on Sept 18, 2018 9:11:14 GMT
chelseah01
very very well said in every other sport they are trying to and most cases are finding out who is not clean etc but not showing, when vast amounts of money are spent on these animals, not only the welfare issue but what if a child etc was severely injured when riding a doped animal - does not bear thinking about
would love to know Grandstand Media views on this
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