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Post by gillwales on Oct 21, 2018 15:07:12 GMT
I stand corrected Lucynlizzysmum. I did realize that Grandstand Media was not a charity, I had however believed that the BSPS was to encourage children's riding. They will however have insurance companies and I still think that raising the point of the safety of the children riding doped ponies and the safety of the others in the ring with them is a valid point which might make both companies see sense over this matter. It would definitely be shown as negligence if both companies were aware of the use of illegal substances and that they failed to act.
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Post by HOYS70years on Oct 22, 2018 11:06:58 GMT
HOYS has today announced that the 3 animals they tested were negative for any prohibited substances.
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Post by Rife on Oct 22, 2018 11:22:14 GMT
HOYS has today announced that the 3 animals they tested were negative for any prohibited substances. Sorry to sound like a terrible sceptic but can you tell me where this was announced and was it 3 show animals or did they test showjumpers? It would be great if you could clarify this for me, thanks
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Post by janetbushell on Oct 22, 2018 11:31:39 GMT
HOYS has today announced that the 3 animals they tested were negative for any prohibited substances. Sorry to sound like a terrible sceptic but can you tell me where this was announced and was it 3 show animals or did they test showjumpers? It would be great if you could clarify this for me, thanks It is on their website & it specifies that they were showing animals & names them PS took me 2 minutes to find the information!
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Post by janetbushell on Oct 22, 2018 16:28:37 GMT
Latest report on dope testing on www.bsps.com (latest news - sorry not able to post a link as it's beyond my technical abilities!)
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Post by Admin on Oct 22, 2018 19:29:09 GMT
For those that can’t or won’t visit the BSPS website.
BSPS DOPE TESTING REPORT 2018
Posted: Mon 22nd October 2018 The Dope testing programme began this year at the Winter Championships where ponies were randomly selected for testing. I also attended BSPS Area 3A, Area 4B, Area7 , NCPA Notts/ Lincs ( PP Royal International qualifiers) The Royal International Horse Show (where I was also asked to oversee the Dope testing for the British Show Horse Society)….The BSPS Summer Championships as well as The Heritage Championships. I am pleased to report that out of twelve tests taken all came back negative.
The FEI update their website in January. The British Show Pony Society adhere to the prohibited substance list of the FEI which includes both banned and controlled substances. All competitors and owners should check the list every January for any new additions. If a horse or pony needs veterinary attention and subsequent medication, there should be a discussion with the vet if the equine is to be shown. Drug clearance times from the animal’s system may vary, so the onus is on the competitor/owner to ask this question.
Dope testing is a costly business! Each kit for testing costs £27.50. If the samples are then sent to Newmarket there is a further cost of £250.00 . If there is an “irregularity” found in the sample then the sample is taken for further detailed analysis at an additional cost of £600.00. These are 2018 prices.
The British Show Pony Society along with The Show Horse Society are two of the most pro-active showing societies in the Dope Testing area. Dope Testing Officers for these Societies often test at Major Shows for each other.
We are not secretive about testing, but try to be as confidential as possible until results arrive at the BSPS head office. Results are then posted on the website, usually within 2 weeks of posting the sample to the LGC in Newmarket.
I would like to ask ALL members to please read SECTION D of the rule book, Dope testing and sampling procedure every year as rules may change!
Dope Testing Officer is not the most popular job but someone has to do it!! Most people are very accepting and pleased that the BSPS has raised the profile and become more active in trying to make it a level playing field for all competitors.
Finally, to dispel any misconceptions in order conduct a valid test a vet does not have to be present and a stable isn’t always necessary!!!!!!
DAWN CHRISTIE
(BSPS Dope Testing Steward)
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Post by rumoursvstruth on Oct 23, 2018 8:02:48 GMT
Thank you BSPS for a very detailed clarification, that answers many of the questions raised on here, particularly around an alleged 'cover up'!
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Post by CarolineNelson on Oct 23, 2018 10:22:42 GMT
Well done BSPS / BSHA.
It must be mentioned that the NPS, too, is and always has been very pro-active, and for many years. The wording in the rules for Dope Testing commences with and has always stated "in common with other similar bodies, the National Pony Society (NPS) takes a very serious view of doping, whether intentional or unintentional, particularly with regard to the safety of children . . . . ." This wording, taken in part from the NPS Official List of Judges and Rules 2001, Pages 6, 7 & 8.. - just an old rule book randomly lifted from the bookcase. The Arab Horse Society, too, has always been pro-active and I recall, especially back in the 1980's and 90's, having various (Champion) ridden horses 'pulled' for testing. Always clean, of course. I sort of took it as a complement - if they were successful, sooner or later a sample would be requested; we never had an issue with that. What we did take slight issue with, however, was if this was demanded betwixt class and Championship as naturally this disturbs the pattern which the horse would expect at that time. Finally, without doubt we had a very successful horse 'got at' overnight on a major showground - although obviously the perpetrator could never be proved I had a shrewd idea who it was. The horse was tested - it came up positive (a very ordinary sedative) - obviously and sadly, he could not compete on that important day.
Hopefully the posting of the BSPS' report here will dispel some of the Chinese whispers which, extraordinarily, people love to circulate. Thank you, Admin.
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Post by conniegirl on Oct 25, 2018 11:20:51 GMT
I have a question, on dope testing as no vet is required what training does the tester have? what insurance are they covered by?
Not sure that I'd be entirely comfortable with a non vet sticking a needle into a vein on a horse. Too many things can go wrong.
Also if you are testing to FEI standards and sanctioning for failed dope tests then when are they bringing in FEI style controls on stabling? its all too easy at the moment for someone to "get at" the competition.
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Post by CarolineNelson on Oct 29, 2018 9:56:43 GMT
I have a question, on dope testing as no vet is required what training does the tester have? what insurance are they covered by? Not sure that I'd be entirely comfortable with a non vet sticking a needle into a vein on a horse. Too many things can go wrong. Also if you are testing to FEI standards and sanctioning for failed dope tests then when are they bringing in FEI style controls on stabling? its all too easy at the moment for someone to "get at" the competition. . . 1] a 'lay-person' can easily take a URINE sample (that is, if the animal obliges) - and . . 2] At any 'ordinary' show where there are numerous stables and limited security, " they" would be hard pressed to offer the sort of security of which you speak, be it under FEI or Jockey Club rules. It goes without saying that the added security which you suggest " they" should introduce, would cost a considerable sum which, naturally, would have to come from the Exhibitors pocket. Exhibitors already grumble unmercifully at the cost of on-site stabling. A question to you - who do you think should be the " they" to implement this?. Let's take any regular large show with considerable stabling - mentioning at random - Three Counties / Royal Highland / Royal Norfolk / Bath & West / Lincoln County / Cheshire County / anything at Arena UK etc. etc .. need I go on? Obviously, all with multi- Society/Association exhibits . . . . Either the individual needs to install their own security, or, as now, trust the honesty of fellow exhibitors/competitors. In an ideal world, I probably would be in agreement with you, but, rolling out such a national scheme would be a monumental task and an unbelievably costly exercise.
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Post by sallie on Oct 30, 2018 7:39:15 GMT
Morning 1st thank you BSPS for your statement from your Dope Steward only 1 thing concerns me Is a non vet /vet nurse allowed to take blood as this is the preferred method, as i would be worried about a lay man doing this because of the following
1) Aseptic Technique 2) If no stable as stated what happens if horse moves and needle breaks and broken bit enters the blood stream? or if doing in lorry what about light 3) Air Bubbles what happens if you get a air bubble going into the blood stream 4) Insurance- who is liable if God forbid an Equine dies as i bet you the horses insurance will run a mile as they will say non vet did this , will the society which the test was being done pay up or will the tester have to fit the bill We all know being the dope tester is not popular but i really think instead of the last sentence saying a vet does not have to be present - needs to be clarified as you would not let the Doctors Receptionist take your blood would you?
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Post by janetbushell on Oct 30, 2018 7:51:55 GMT
Morning 1st thank you BSPS for your statement from your Dope Steward only 1 thing concerns me Is a non vet /vet nurse allowed to take blood as this is the preferred method, as i would be worried about a lay man doing this because of the following 1) Aseptic Technique 2) If no stable as stated what happens if horse moves and needle breaks and broken bit enters the blood stream? or if doing in lorry what about light 3) Air Bubbles what happens if you get a air bubble going into the blood stream 4) Insurance- who is liable if God forbid an Equine dies as i bet you the horses insurance will run a mile as they will say non vet did this , will the society which the test was being done pay up or will the tester have to fit the bill We all know being the dope tester is not popular but i really think instead of the last sentence saying a vet does not have to be present - needs to be clarified as you would not let the Doctors Receptionist take your blood would you? As these concerns all arise from the BSPS statement, have you sent these queries to the BSPS?
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Post by sallie on Oct 30, 2018 8:41:34 GMT
yes
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Post by honeypot on Oct 30, 2018 14:05:08 GMT
Having seen a fair amount for blood taken in humans and horses, its a skill which you have to keep practicing. I would want to know that the person taking the blood had some sort of competency and recent experience, if they are not a vet they should have some sort of recognised training. Looking at the costs of testing, the actual taking of the blood seems to be least costly part but an area where most mistakes could be made, which could have huge repercussions for the animal and anyone associated with it. Believe me in hospital they use bar codes and have very strict procedures but human error is usually the cause of mistakes, I know human drug testing in schools has a set of guidelines about where the blood is taken and by who by, some both parties can have confidence with the result. The consensus is that doping is going on in some form, while its a big relief for those tested, what about the rest where its suspected? The use of alcohol appals me and perhaps a simple test could a least be found for that. Remember when you are tested for drunk driving you are selected by usually your behaviour whilst driving, its not normally a random test. If it was there may be more negatives. When your baggage is swabbed or searched at the airport they select some randomly but also have guidelines for the most likely to be carrying such items and their bags are searched. I haven't been a BSPS member for many years but I have had a quick scan, www.bsps.com/assets/uploads/files/75ed3-2018-Rule---Show-Handbook.pdfcould someone point me to the doping policy section or is it listed somewhere else.
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Post by chelseah01 on Oct 30, 2018 14:14:11 GMT
I also would like to thank the BSPS for the statement, although I do believe that there is a need for an annual statement on the subject.
I also still have some unanswered questions, most especially how the animals are picked out for a test. Is it a predetermined placing in a certain class or an animal that “looks doped” or even an animal that doesn’t “look doped”?
I can’t help myself looking at the numbers and, although I don’t have the actual figures for the BSPS, I have made some educated guesses….
RIHS qualifiers, 30 classes and 20 qualifier shows, as an estimate 5 in each class – 3000 exhibits
RIHS 30 classes some 20 in each class – 600 exhibits
Summer champs – 2000 exhibits
Heritage champs – 1000 exhibits
Midsummer – 300 exhibits
Winter champs, not RIHS classes (100 classes with 5 in each) – 500 exhibits
Area shows, winter, spring and summer say 20 areas (40 classes with 3 in each class) 2500 exhibits
Using these figures as minimum numbers I estimate that there are at least 10,000 entries under BSPS rules. This gives a 1 in 833 chance of being tested.
I had a look at the numbers at HOYS and the chance of a test this year was 1 in 370.
I do not believe that this is a serious attempt to stamp out the use of illegal substances and that the numbers tested should be considerably higher. I do also understand the logistical problems associated with the job and this is why I believe that more should be done at HOYS. If all the societies got together and had their winners tested (by a vet) at HOYS, even if we had to pay an increased levy on qualifiers, I think the majority of the law abiding competitors would be happy to go in this direction.
Just my thoughts, I would love to know what others think.
And for those about to type out the standard retort, yes I have discussed all of this with my area chair.
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Post by How Random? on Oct 30, 2018 19:55:39 GMT
They must be quite a random selection because I sure one of the HOYS selection was a shire horse!
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Post by Rockstar on Oct 31, 2018 20:48:35 GMT
I’ve had a horse dope tested at chaps champs (admittedly 11 years ago!). Just a urine sample done in a stable straight after my class. No blood test, no needles and so no vet needed.
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Post by sallie on Nov 1, 2018 7:38:25 GMT
Hi My understanding is that Blood is the preferred method ,but i could be wrong
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