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Post by veryold on Apr 25, 2007 6:59:28 GMT
At top level showing it must be possible to find enough ponies with good conformation and peformance to be able to put the fattest ones down the line. As this board shows people rarely agree with the judges decision anyway, so there are obviously plenty of ponies down the line that someone thinks is good enough to win! Even if the pony was put down one place for being too fat and the rider/handler told why it would send out the right message. No-one is going to convince showing people that their ponies aren't fat otherwise. In last week's H&H there was an article saying that showing horses were rarely overweight and were just "well muscled" and on the previous page there was a photo of a hunter that looked pretty fat to me. I must say that M&Ms and show cobs are the worst offenders, the first because of their natural ability to put on weight away from the habitat they were bred to live in and the second because it is the only way to meet the requirements for the class these days. I honestly don't believe there isn't a single show cob that isn't overweight. I know they are naturally butty etc etc, but cresty necks and rumps with gutters along them contain fat.
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Post by blackknight NLI on Apr 25, 2007 19:25:56 GMT
I had 2 ridden stallions at Clumber on Sunday and i did overhear a comment from a bystander about the crest that one of them is carrying. I have 4 M&M stallions in for showing. They are fed minimal amounts of sugar beet and hi fibre cubes but do have ad lib haylage, they go out for around 4hrs each on fields that have been grazed constantly since last year and they are all worked daily whether it be lunged, hacked, ridden in menage or jumped....still they carry good condition but are fit. Even the most laid back of them is aware that its'that time of year' and the mares are in season and is fretting , by working them harder it is keeping their brains occupied and subsequently i have found that they are muscling up AND putting on more condition...because they are content and happy and have other things to think about!!
The only way to get these boys to drop the weight is to not work them and have the wittle away over the ladies...( that they are not having) and to start stressing.
I would love to lose a bit of crest on said stallion because that is the only place that he is 'loaded' but would rather have him content and working than more streamline and fretting. None of them need the weight to cover confirmation faults and it is not piled on by me intentionally but they are looking rather 'well' but i do know that give it another month or so when they have lost interest in the mares that their weights will settle. Im lucky here that i am on sandy soil so i donot get lush grazing at any time of the year, just turnout..
It is hard to get a balance
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Post by jess davies on Apr 25, 2007 19:57:36 GMT
while judges keep putting fat over conditioned ponys up people will keep thinking thats what they have to do. All our stallions are fed well balanced diets and dont need to get worked every day, yet are a great weight but would of looked under weight on sunday aginst some of those.
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Post by hmmm indeed on Apr 25, 2007 20:34:10 GMT
quote: 'after what was witnessed at the weekend if a nice well known studs pony went like a bag of poo poo grumpy and very un happy and was extreemly fat on a fine frame medalled what hope has anyone got
i think that was the fatest pony i had seen in a long time.'
I think the theme of this thread has far more to do with facey judging than fat ponies.
The pony i think you are talking about indeed did go like a bag of poo poo i have never seen such a sour and miserable pony. Look at the photographers website its very obvious
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HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
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Post by HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM on Apr 25, 2007 21:06:22 GMT
i think it shows indeed a sour pony, on a good day and going well a ok pony but i think you have todo a hald decent performance todo well in a class even if in hand.
I had always put the term faceyness down to sour grapes BUT belive it was witnessed i would have been cross to have been beaten with something so obviously not happy.
Not that im slagging anyone or anyones ponies off or even the judge as at the end of the day they are doing a job and they all have diff values and will do it there own way but was odd do have it above as nice ponies and in some respects better that did sterling performances !!!!
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Buddy
Junior Member
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Post by Buddy on Apr 25, 2007 21:13:38 GMT
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Buddy
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by Buddy on Apr 25, 2007 21:14:52 GMT
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Post by 1st place on Apr 25, 2007 22:56:22 GMT
I wasn't there, I've looked at photos and was wondering what should have won?
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Post by agree on Apr 26, 2007 6:32:42 GMT
HMMMMMMMMMMM i must agree with you on this one - i feel sorry for the reserve and the other ponies below it on the day that went better.
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Post by fat person on Apr 26, 2007 8:48:03 GMT
Our ponies are in show condition - they are not over fed - have very poor grazing and are all worked hard when they are ridden - hacking is still work - they get ridden evry night and for longer at weeknds and are shown regualrly - I would have to starve them I think to get them down to lean-ness - they get fed Happy Hoof and a balancer for vitamins, plus hay at night - they ahve to be fit enough to withstand showing - which is quite hard work
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Post by tell it how it is on Apr 26, 2007 9:52:54 GMT
Personally, I really like the pony in question. BUT, to be honest with you after seeing it at various shows since it was a foal I have to say it has never gone very well and is quite often dragged around the ring. This pony was also res. youngstock at midlands a few weeks ago and went exactly the same (under another facey judge). The thing is though, the face fits and most people could have probably called ch & res a few weeks ago (which is why we only went to spectate) and it would have caused a big rift in the 'clique' if they hadn't have won. I know we moan about facey judging and I'm often quite sceptical about a lot that is said but in this case it was a certain.
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slow
Newbie
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Post by slow on Apr 26, 2007 10:28:18 GMT
sorry think im not gettin which horse is in question is it the c or the d??
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Post by 1st Price on Apr 26, 2007 10:29:34 GMT
But out of all of you who were there - what in your opinions should have won? The fat ones at the top or the ones with bad confirmation down the line? Or was this nothing to do with either and just another judge being facey!
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Post by I think on Apr 26, 2007 11:34:39 GMT
sorry think im not gettin which horse is in question is it the c or the d?? I think it is now the section A that is being talked about?? I could be wrong
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Post by welshies on Apr 26, 2007 12:20:41 GMT
We all know that ponies at the top of the line, whether they are fat or not, do not always have the best conformation in the class. Face judging seems to be worse than ever. I say this as a spectator
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Post by htjtdyu on Apr 26, 2007 13:00:14 GMT
i have to agree fat ponies a no no.i went to a show a few weeks back and was in the picton class,the first 2 were over weight ponies and the judge even said to them they need to slim down and i saw both ponies again this weekend and there were still as fat as ever!
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how do you know this
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Post by how do you know this on Apr 26, 2007 13:14:14 GMT
Quote - "The thing is though, the face fits and most people could have probably called ch & res a few weeks ago (which is why we only went to spectate) and it would have caused a big rift in the 'clique' if they hadn't have won."
How can anyone determine a few weeks prior the show who the champion and reserve are going to be???
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Post by low on Apr 26, 2007 15:18:40 GMT
yes sometimes. depends who the champion and reserve are, some will stoop very low to get what they want, a few imperticular.
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Post by welshies on Apr 26, 2007 16:29:30 GMT
I heard at least a week in advance what would get champion. Very soon these judges will only have the "clique" going under them and then who will they put up!!
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Post by five NLI on Apr 26, 2007 17:06:01 GMT
sorry think im not gettin which horse is in question is it the c or the d?? I think it is now the section A that is being talked about?? I could be wrong I think its the champion D, by looking at the photo's on the web it looks vastly over weight.
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Post by same on Apr 26, 2007 18:13:07 GMT
the D and the A are equally overweight, but the A was very grumpy. As for the clique business I think it was directed to the section A's.
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Post by im new to this on Apr 26, 2007 19:01:53 GMT
i'm new to this and i have no idea what you are talking about when you mean clique? how can people know who will win before the class has been judged?? is there a pre judging??
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Post by confused on Apr 26, 2007 20:54:36 GMT
I thought the D looked really well and deserved to win!!
A touch of sour grapes maybe?!?!
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Post by five on Apr 27, 2007 6:24:23 GMT
I ment the inhand not the ridden D
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Post by paddywack nsi on Apr 27, 2007 6:40:36 GMT
my sect C went on loan last November in good fit show condition, she came back a bloody mess a few weeks ago. The weight is returning but it is the muscle tone which will take ages to put right. There is a big difference between a fat pony and a fit conditioned pony. I hate seing fat ponies.
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Post by lolly on Apr 27, 2007 8:52:59 GMT
The inhand D was very beautiful, with a head to die for, she stood out in her class and was a worthy winner, and a credit to her breeders but was still only a a three year old, had a neck like a stallion and dished shockingly perhaps due to the excess weight she was carrying for her age.
I vaguely know the breeders/owners who are very lovely people whose horses at home are exceptionally well cared for and loved and are not overweight. They live in a natural environment most of the year.
It just makes me very sad that all for the sake of a red ribbon people allow there treasured animals to go to producers who allow them to put on so much top line/weight on, and I think Judges should set a good example by placing a equally good animal that isn't so fat always before a animal that is overweight. Thus encouraging this practice to stop and the future well being of their very loved animals.
I also think that to get this amount of weight on a youngster, it cant be living a very natural life. We also have a youngster, it been on a recommended diet and has had the best of everything including good grazing since birth, but has no where near the topline this animal did, so you do have to speculate what on earth are they being fed and how they are kept to achieve this level on condition.
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Post by Guestless on Apr 27, 2007 8:58:11 GMT
and dished shockingly perhaps due to the excess weight she was carrying for her age. IMO that is a good enough excuse to put a pony down the line. If the pony doesn't move straight then you can perhaps assume it would move straight if it wasn't too fat, but is an assumption enough to go on? I have a mare who dishes slightly when she is carrying too much weight - I have absolutely no problem when she is put down the line as a result as it is my fault for letting her get overweight - although she is particularly difficult to keep it off!
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Post by intrigued on Apr 27, 2007 9:50:26 GMT
:-*Just wondered what those discontented at the Section A judging thought should have won on the day ?
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Post by HMMMMMMMMMMM on Apr 27, 2007 9:59:14 GMT
I saw all a/b classes and championships but didnt realise the d was only 3, i thought it was an older mare I also feel as i made clear in this post i would rather have hapy healthy ponies that live a long life than something for just showing with a short life One of mine is a very good dooer and i am keeping him on the very lean side and i will show him like this and will ask if low down the line and will bite back if told he not fat enough as i know in other respects he is a quality pony.
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Post by hMMMMMMMMMM on Apr 27, 2007 10:01:14 GMT
Thought the bay stallion stormed the ring and performed fantastically and was in just right condition in MY personal opnion and i have nothing to do with anyone that owns him at all.
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