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Post by Supreme on Apr 29, 2007 10:15:07 GMT
does anybody know what took supreme at amateur champs at keysoe yesterday?
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Post by Amateur on Apr 29, 2007 10:42:21 GMT
I went to watch as it was local and I was interested in the concept etc... but all I can say is how very very disappointing it was. I can't remember when I last went to a show that had such appauling judging. Not one of the judges asked the ages of the horses in the ridden classes and the winner of the novice ridden although a lovely horse must have been in it's teens just by the dip in its back. How can that then be deemed a true novice? There was I believe one 4 year old in there that never put a foot wrong, but stood at the end of the line! Why? From listening to the gossip outside it was all very twisted and biased, I can't find any one of the judges on any of the approved panels!
The other trend seemed to be that if your horse was grossly overweight you stood a the top of the line! This was especially evident in the cob classes, the inhand winner was gross and couldn't move at all! Very dissapointing! There where only two nice horses there for me an inhand Fell and a very lovely Dun cob, along with a very nice grey section A in the small m & m!
I for one will be writing to complain to the organisers because I felt that the entrants where common and ofensive show to be at.
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Post by fjudge on Apr 29, 2007 11:52:03 GMT
I have to agree there was some dodgy judging, but some of it wasnt that bad. I was there riding a grey 15hh plaited ID x Welsh (did ridden hunter, open wh and performance class also first class of eve performance...please pm me if you have any comments on skye being common ) But the name pf the show is "amateur" and a lot of work im sure was put in by the organisers. I am going to email them with some suggestions for the september championships, but like i say...it is "amateur". The supreme went to a beautiful dun cob. Looked in top condition and went foot perfectly - really deserved to get supreme. Reserve went to Lacey and her trad. coloured Domino Flashy Lad and reserve reserve went to emma peel and dear john (i think thats the name?? sorry if thats wrong). Frankie.
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Post by curious on Apr 29, 2007 12:55:35 GMT
I for one will be writing to complain to the organisers because I felt that the entrants where common and ofensive show to be at. Sounds like sour grapes to me :/ After all it is an 'amatuer show' as Frankie says...
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Post by fjudge on Apr 29, 2007 14:20:29 GMT
Also i would like to add that i had a lovely time on the friday eve. when all competitors were invited to sit in the indoor arena for drinks and also that i knew exactly what time all my classes were...they all ran to the exact time in the schedual, as well as a great workers course (although i was not so happy to find the d**e in my open!!!!)
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Post by supreme on Apr 29, 2007 15:50:37 GMT
I agree with what you are saying that it is suppose to be an amateur show so it was not going to be full of top class animals, but surely this is even more of a reason to get the judging right and correct so the amateurs learn from the experience, after all this is one of the aims of the society.i agree with amateur thought that the judging in some cases was diabolic. Surely at an amateur show it is vital to have judges that no what they are doing even if they are not on any panels. The man judge was super, peter gunn i tihink he was called, but i was far from impressed with the others who seemed insistant on poking the ponies, etc. They seemed totally unaware that they were not suppose to touch. Didnt see the judging in the evening so can not comment
Overall the show was very well run, well organised, and i think if they sort out the judging then it could be a very well supported, excellant show that really is for true amateurs. The organisers seem willing to listen also so if people email their suggestions it will only help i think.
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Post by supreme on Apr 29, 2007 16:04:21 GMT
'I for one will be writing to complain to the organisers because I felt that the entrants where common and ofensive show to be at.'
i would just like to add though having re read amatuers post that i do not think that any of the animlas there were common or offensive. Admitedly they were not all hoys jobs but still some very nice ponies who are credits to there owners.
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Post by judging on Apr 29, 2007 16:06:38 GMT
i thought all the judging was very fair, i am not biased in any way as i dont know them but i thought it was a great show. it was nice to have judges for once that people didn't know!
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Post by Interlude on Apr 29, 2007 17:00:30 GMT
Glad it wasn't just me that thought the judging was a bit odd then. I'm afraid I can only echo a few of 'amateurs' points. Mine was one of the two 4 year olds (well 3 rising 4 at his second ridden show) in the novice class. He was also the only one in a snaffle . The girl next to me freely admitted her horse was aged 11 (in a novice class ) I don't care. My pony went well (for a green 4 year old), worked well (albeit a bit unsteady in his head carriage at times and a bit tense at the plastic flowers!) but at least his hocks were engaged and he worked from behind. Quite a few placed very highly in the ridden classes had their heads hauled in with a tonne of steel and leatherwork and had their backends in the next county. Mine is also not shockingly overweight which some of the higher placed animals most definitely were. Yes we had a wrong leg but I am not worried - my lad's time will come and yesterday was a practice run for us (probably one of many). We didn't stay for the championships but there were very few left when I left at 5pm. Having said all that it was very well run and organised so they got that bit right. And no complaints about the stewarding which was excellent. If they can sort the judging I will try them again and I do intend to write also with a few suggestions
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Post by fjudge on Apr 29, 2007 17:02:29 GMT
hi supreme was peter gunn the man who was quite funny, judged the performance horse/pony class? i think he had brown hair? but yes, i do agree that the judging needs to be better and maybe more advice given from the judges at the end of the class. i didnt have one judge give me a word of advice or anything!
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Post by feedback on Apr 29, 2007 17:14:34 GMT
surely if people wanted feedback on their ponies - they should have asked for it! i know whenever i show - i dont particularly like to have the judges tell me what i do wrong or where my ponies can improve etc - i go for fun cause i enjoy it and if this is the bitc**ness that comes off running a great fun amateur show with good new and unknown judges then why bother showing at all.
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Post by guest always on Apr 29, 2007 17:45:44 GMT
On the subject of ponies who are older than 4 in novice classes, what it the problem with it? OK when they are in their teens maybe they shouldn't but they may never have been broken until later in life.
I for one do not think every pony is ready to break at 3 and be in the ring as a 4yr old. I have a pony who was broken at 5 and is now a couple of years later all the better for it. Should the younger ponies in novice classes be placed higher above older ponies just due to their age not taking into consideration the way of going etc?
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noir
Junior Member
Posts: 91
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Post by noir on Apr 29, 2007 17:57:51 GMT
An odd show. Some of the judging was absolutely dreadful; some of it was okay. The show had no atmosphere at all. We found it a dreadful anti-climax after the last show in September.
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Post by errrm no on Apr 29, 2007 19:05:05 GMT
On the subject of ponies who are older than 4 in novice classes, what it the problem with it? OK when they are in their teens maybe they shouldn't but they may never have been broken until later in life. I for one do not think every pony is ready to break at 3 and be in the ring as a 4yr old. I have a pony who was broken at 5 and is now a couple of years later all the better for it. Should the younger ponies in novice classes be placed higher above older ponies just due to their age not taking into consideration the way of going etc? errrrm no not at all but the 'amateur' definition of novice was not to have won two firsts - I have never had a horse or pony who hasn't done that by age 11!
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Post by guest always on Apr 29, 2007 19:33:36 GMT
[ errrrm no not at all but the 'amateur' definition of novice was not to have won two firsts - I have never had a horse or pony who hasn't done that by age 11! OK I did not know that was the stipulation as I was not there. I apologise.Sorry! I do think though that sometimes an animal is penalised in a novice for being a little older even though it is in the same stage of its career due to whatever reason as a younger animal.
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Post by errrm no on Apr 29, 2007 19:38:36 GMT
Absolutely I have no problem with that as I have a 7 year old who will be doing her first season this year obviously as a novice (has had two foals and hence only just broken) but 11 is pushing it IMO.
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Post by re on Apr 29, 2007 19:41:54 GMT
errrrm no not at all but the 'amateur' definition of novice was not to have won two firsts - I have never had a horse or pony who hasn't done that by age 11! Yes well, alot of people like to breed with their ponies first, or find them in a field when they are older and think they may have a bash at showing. Dont be so narrow minded. People do other things with their horses except showing - SHOCK HORROR!!
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Post by supreme on Apr 29, 2007 20:03:59 GMT
fjudge - yes i think he was, he judged the show hunter ponies anyway and had a bowler hat on. All our judges offered advice but he was the only one who had something positive to say and whose advice was actually useful. One lady judge told us to put a longer saddle on our 13hander who is already got a 17inch on!!
Interlude- Our pony was in the novice class (i'm talking in hand not ridden though) and was in a pelham becuase he just doesn't like a snaffle, i'd rather have my pony in a pelham and happy in his mouth than in a snaffle and not. He will not even tolerate a snaffle in hand.
I didn't stay for the evening performance but felt that there was no atmosphere at the summer evening performance, don't know if this was better at winter?
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Post by Guestless on Apr 29, 2007 20:08:42 GMT
Yes well, alot of people like to breed with their ponies first, or find them in a field when they are older and think they may have a bash at showing. Dont be so narrow minded. People do other things with their horses except showing - SHOCK HORROR!! I have to agree with you - IMO it makes no difference what age a horse or pony is in a novice class so long as they are competing within the rules. As you say some horses have a life outside of showing and so may not have won 2 1sts by the time they are 11.
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Post by fjudge on Apr 29, 2007 20:21:33 GMT
fjudge - yes i think he was, he judged the show hunter ponies anyway and had a bowler hat on. All our judges offered advice but he was the only one who had something positive to say and whose advice was actually useful. One lady judge told us to put a longer saddle on our 13hander who is already got a 17inch on!! ok, thanks i think i know the lady judge you mean!
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Post by its a fun show on Apr 29, 2007 22:32:42 GMT
why are you all being horrible about the judging?? i'm sure the people that did well at the show aren't complaining, i'm sure they are over the moon! if your all going to complain about the judging from outside the ring....put your name down in writing and offer to judge it next year - if not, dont go to the show again! i sure know a lot of people who will be going again as they thougt it was great, the judges were friendly in every class and people did enjoy it. its such a shame that some people ruin it by gossiping on websites such as this, it almost makes it seem not worth it. i am sorry to moan, but after reading this thread as well as other threads - no wonder why new, young and up and coming people aren't applying to be judges - if they read all the goosip on this site and others then even i'd be afraid to become a judge!!! we need to encourage new, younger judges to apply for panels because if we dont, us old ones aren't going to be around forever.
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jdd
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by jdd on Apr 30, 2007 9:25:11 GMT
I too had my horse at this show and I think to use the term common and offensive is very unkind! My horse was All That Jazz, she is only in her second year of competing having only started last July after being broken last Feb. She has never been refered to as common or offensive by anyone during this time and like Fjudge would be intrested to hear your views on her.
I too felt some judging was a little odd but some was also very fair and I am sure the judges had there reasons for there places. I also found it strange no ages were asked but again that is down to the judge.From what I have seen on here everyone has negative view after every show anyway!!
Jazz's results were
3rd Riding horse (wouldn't stand for the judge to look at her so was dropped from 2nd)
4th Novice WH (had one pole down)
3rd Performance Horse/Pony (two poles down but highest show mark)
1st and Champion Consolation class (this means I guess you saw me and thought I was offensive?!)
I enjoyed the weekend and feel that the society is working hard to develop this show. I agree the atmosphere was not great but I think this was caused by the fact that a lot of people watched from the collecting ring (in september ther champs will be at towerlands and I think this will help)
To make such rude comments about other peoples horses seems par for the course on this site and I for one am proud of my youngster and her results and more importantly behaviour at the show.
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janet
Full Member
Posts: 502
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Post by janet on Apr 30, 2007 11:28:12 GMT
i have a welsh B stallion who is 10 yrs old this is his 1st season under saddle as he has been very busy at stud, and has only just been broken.
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Post by daffodil on Apr 30, 2007 14:35:19 GMT
We have a 10 year old mare, bought in the winter, she had spent her life pottering about local shows in the Milton Keynes area, good at dressage!
We realised she was good conformation brilliant jump and when at a pre season novice show, a BSPS judge told us to take her out on the affiliated circuit which we will do AS A NOVICE, simply because she has done nothing at all in the showing world surely that does make her a novice, not on how old/young she is?
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Post by MIFFED on May 1, 2007 17:54:14 GMT
Well i think you lot should perhaps have a go at organising a show yourselves as you are obviously perfect at everything. i think the show was very well run, when you show you accept you are there for the judges opinion like it ior not, if you cant take that then you shouldnt be showing. Spare a thought for all those who did well before you run down the judges. perhaps the judges saw blemishes that you experts could not see from stood outside the ring. i was there till the end and all the championships were full, there was a good atmosphere and some very happy people. if you lot carrying on griping then dont be suprised if these shows stop being held, because if i had put all the effort into running a show and then read your comments i would wonder WHY BOTHER. It confuses me why you would expect to find HOYS standard horses at the Amateur Championships I THINK THE CLUE IS IN THE TITLE.
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Post by dobbin on May 1, 2007 18:36:03 GMT
great to hear my cob was grossly over weight and couldnt move!!!!!!! he is a big boy but nowhere near carried as much weight as many of them in the class!!!!!!! he also got placed 3rd in ridden cob and has had numerous firsts at county level and with bspa as for not being able to move he can jump 3ft course and can out trot my freinds county welsh d!!!! remmember hes a heavy weight not a part bred arab/show pony. agaisnt many of the county cobs he looks like a bit dropped off!!!!! so i guess i should be gratefull that i own a fat cob that cant move wins as much as he does!!!!!!!!!
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Post by disgusted on May 1, 2007 18:52:53 GMT
I am shocked that alot of you feel that an older horse shouldn't compete in a novice class. A novice class does not have an age limit so why shouldn't they be in it if they fit in with the other rules?
I own a 15 year old that I have now had 2 years. Previous to me having her she was a field companion and was hacked around the owners farm. I got her and started showing, she probally had less experiance then some 4 year olds that have been inhand showing ...... should I have taken her straight into opens?
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Post by fjudge on May 1, 2007 19:20:05 GMT
great to hear my cob was grossly over weight and couldnt move!!!!!!! he is a big boy but nowhere near carried as much weight as many of them in the class!!!!!!! he also got placed 3rd in ridden cob and has had numerous firsts at county level and with bspa as for not being able to move he can jump 3ft course and can out trot my freinds county welsh d!!!! remmember hes a heavy weight not a part bred arab/show pony. agaisnt many of the county cobs he looks like a bit dropped off!!!!! so i guess i should be gratefull that i own a fat cob that cant move wins as much as he does!!!!!!!!! Oh and dont forget...our horses were "common" and "offensive" I saw many cobs at the show and they were all lovely so boooooooooooo to anyone who says otherwise Hope you had a good weekend at keysoe!
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Post by dobbin on May 2, 2007 11:26:00 GMT
yeah did have good day thanks!!!!!! got two firsts and a 3rd also went out next day and got 1st 2nd and a championship!! big pat for my fat common offensive stuffy cob!!!!!!!
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Post by Amateur on May 2, 2007 21:32:18 GMT
The people's langauage was common and offensive, not the horses, it felt like i was watching from the middle of Brixton!
The in hand cobs where fat, not fit looking and I would seriously worry about my horses long term welfare if they are jumping on this hard ground carrying that much weight with no true self carriage! I have cobs to, but they are fit not fat and have been to HOYS, so they can't be bad!
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