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Post by poneydestiny on May 20, 2011 7:45:01 GMT
It appears though that in the UK your "Welfare" organisations are useless. In France this goes through a legal process when there is animal cruelty which an individual can do easily by opening a complaint. Can this be done in the UK? Why do you have to wait for a "Welfare" organisation? There is also the fact that persons who purchased the ponies cannot really be sure of the bloodlines if there is a case made that stallions and young males are running with mares..these are very real legal issues and must be addressed as such otherwise you will not get where you want to go! Just my experience talking...and Yes the french and other european welsh breeders are aware through my regular facebook page Poney Destiny
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Post by sageandonion on May 20, 2011 7:54:05 GMT
I think we have to be realistic. There are very few people who can actually afford to instruct a lawyer on this subject. We shall continue with the things we can do and we need to do it now and quick.
Please can we have the Agenda for the day. What are people doing, who do we need to contact or follow up?
Someone please put that statement again for luckoftheirish and others.
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Post by brindlerainbow on May 20, 2011 7:54:57 GMT
Just to go off track for a second I too find some of SHSS's comments offensive on this thread. We all want the same thing which is Criccieth closed down and we are all pulling together, what we dont want are petty insults. Welcome Candace Your input will be very much appreciated. Supes thankyou for putting up the picture of Mr Evans, he neither looks to be in his 80's or in ill health!!!! Do we know if the magazine Horse Scene are definatley going to run an article ? The more fact and photographic eveidence that we can get into print the better especially in a monthly publication like Horse Scene. Also has anyone that emailed Watch Dog had an kind of response as I emailed but have heard nothing from them
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Post by sageandonion on May 20, 2011 7:57:28 GMT
Ok shall we start with Horse Scene magazine, I shall google and see if I can get the email address or could someone put up the email address. Let us enquire and tell them we are looking forward to their candid article.
GO GO
modified to add
info@horsescenemagazine.co.uk
email address. Please would anyone who attended contact with a factual account, photo etc to be forwarded on. Please would those who have written such brilliant letters also forward these to the magazine so they can see this subject has massive public interest. Anything and everything.
If you don't have anything to forward, just email the magazine and tell them we are awaiting an article.
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Post by poneydestiny on May 20, 2011 7:58:33 GMT
Lawyers work for no cost on high profile cases or when they believe in the cause Paula Sparks, Peter Collins are two UK lawyers who dedicate their time to these kinds of things if anyone has a personal contact
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Post by brindlerainbow on May 20, 2011 7:59:49 GMT
Ok for those not on Facebook, I have copied and pasted this just now from the action group on there -
RSPCA inquiry into pony abuse
It is alleged Welsh ponies are being ill-treated at some markets
The RSPCA has announced that it will be investigating allegations from BBC Wales that Welsh ponies are being ill-treated on their way to slaughter. The Welsh language current affairs programme Taro Naw visited and filmed horse markets all over Wales over a period of 12 months.
Horse meat is popular on the continent During research, reporters saw large numbers of ponies ending up in the abattoir after being sold for £1.
At one market in Llanybydder, west Wales, the programme makers claim that, after being sold during the day, one group of horses were left without food and water all night.
Both the auctioneers and the haulage company in questions strongly deny the claims.
The RSPCA's Elin Davies said: "We will be looking at evidence we have been given and considering what to do."
Overbreeding
Demand for horse meat to be exported from Wales to the continent has risen as a result of the BSE outbreak as it is considered safer than beef in some parts of Europe.
Some breeders are now calling for stricter rules to prevent overbreeding, which has led to the drop in price.
Ann Roberts, horse expert Horse expert Ann Roberts said: "There seems to be a trend towards farming ponies, particularly the smaller breeds, the Shetlands, smaller Welsh breeds, the New Forest ponies.
"Possibly we should be looking at some sort of quota," she added.
Last year, a separate investigation carried out by the charity Compassion in World Farming (CIWF) also claimed that ponies were being "cruelly and illegally treated" at markets.
A European Commission report then called for harmonised rules on the transportation of live horses and ponies between European countries.
Taro Naw is broadcast at 2100 BST on S4C on Monday
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Post by pentaran on May 20, 2011 8:00:20 GMT
If I was the german person whom these ponies had been purchased for in a comment much further back, I would be demanding DNA test results before the ponies left this country . I think a lot of foreign buyers need to consider this if buying from a not too honest huge consignment draft .
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Post by poneydestiny on May 20, 2011 8:03:18 GMT
But when foreign buyers buy at reputable sales organisations such as Brightwell's with the WPCS issuing passports?....
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Post by poneydestiny on May 20, 2011 8:06:13 GMT
Reference the horse meat debate just for everyone's information, in France we have breeders of the DRAFT breeds which specialize in the horse meat which is logically a more rational way to have meat supplied if it must be done. Little thin starved bag of bones welsh ponies just does not cut it with me as a meat supply argument!
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Post by firtree on May 20, 2011 8:07:23 GMT
Watchdog no reply yet.
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Post by sageandonion on May 20, 2011 8:07:53 GMT
Well done brindle and some names and contacts there that we could target.
Any welsh speakers, could you contact that radio programme?
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Post by brindlerainbow on May 20, 2011 8:14:14 GMT
If the Welsh programme Taro Naw ( sorry dont know what that translates to in English ) has been filming over the last 12 months at Welsh markets im sure they must have filmed evidence of Criccieth ponies as there seems to be ponies from this stud at several Welsh sales through the year. What im trying to say is that they may have film of his ponies in dreadful condition that could prove very useful. As Sagey has asked we need some Welsh speakers to contact them
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Post by bonnieheather on May 20, 2011 8:25:00 GMT
Well done all, working together. Welcome poneydestiny, and thank you for your wonderful advice, invaluable. So, we chase up Watchdog and info@horsescenemagazine.co.uk firstly today...go, go, go!
Incidently, the BHS overbreeding just giving page has expired :-( I'm sure we can, together, make a difference...
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Post by oliver21 on May 20, 2011 8:32:43 GMT
Copied off FB page number of ponies registered each year by Mr Evans dates back to 97. 2010 12 2009 52 2008 59 2007 66 2006 78 2005 59 2004 60 2003 56 2002 37 2001 26 2000 21 1999 25 1998 22 1997 14 And this is just the registered ones!! I suspect There are many of his unregistered ponies that are just shoved out through markets such as Beeston, Garwen, Llanybydder and others. These would be the ones he didn't think warranted the cost of registration!!!
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Post by sageandonion on May 20, 2011 8:48:51 GMT
squarepants, someone should contact BBC Wales, would you take that up? Fabulous to have a male amongst us.
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Post by stormyskies on May 20, 2011 8:57:43 GMT
ok have been waiting to come into work all week to get access to a proper computer rather than my very frustrating touch screen phone!!
Horsescene havebeen e mailed applauding them for their forthcoming article.
i also posr regularly on a north east forum so have posted link to that and i know they will all rally and e mail too,
off to e mail liz jones now
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Post by poneydestiny on May 20, 2011 8:58:38 GMT
Sorry moderator, square pants, round pants, girls, boys, men, women I personally don't care as long, at the end of the day we are all PIT BULLS!
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Post by hs on May 20, 2011 9:23:28 GMT
That number could be made up of older ponies registered in previous years and ponies such as the sunwillow pony who were not breed by him but were bought in from other studs. At one sale alone, as far as I recall 90 ponies were accepted through a sale, but none of the years total reach 90. Ideas anybody?
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Post by beachbum12 on May 20, 2011 9:42:28 GMT
squarepants, someone should contact BBC Wales, would you take that up? Fabulous to have a male amongst us. wales.northwest@bbc.co.uk I have emailed them the other day
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Post by sageandonion on May 20, 2011 9:51:10 GMT
Actually, has anyone had any response or peep out of RSPCA?
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Post by tanfanaris on May 20, 2011 10:11:40 GMT
Apparently the only Welfare Society which can legally remove them is the RSPCA
I don't think the RSPCA have powers of removal, they are not even allowed on property without the property owners request, they can only remove if animals are in their care (i.e signed over) .... police or trading standards are the only ones with the power of removal
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Post by jebediah on May 20, 2011 10:15:47 GMT
Good morning! Welcome poneydestiny! A couple of points, the BBC Wales report is dated 2001, a time period of 10 years lapsed and nothing has changed. It would be interesting to know if the film footage is still archived with the tv station? Also the figures of registered ponies does not tally up to the amount going through the sales. At one sale alone, as far as I recall 90 ponies were accepted through a sale, but none of the years total reach 90. Ideas anybody? The figures are for Criccieth prefix ponies registered on National Equine database for each year The Stud was also buying and selling other prefix ponies--that stock cannot be accounted for except by looking at WPCS records
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martinetaylor02
Full Member
"If you can dream it, you can do it." Walt Disney
Posts: 354
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Post by martinetaylor02 on May 20, 2011 10:19:58 GMT
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Post by jebediah on May 20, 2011 10:24:13 GMT
Just to add WPCS have updated NED today and 2010 Criccieth registered ponies are up to 19 from 12
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Post by hs on May 20, 2011 10:48:39 GMT
Well if that is the case then there will be little hope as I am sure this man is not going to give the RSCPA permission to come on to his land. I thought RSPCA can go onto land and also have the power to remove animals if a vet deems that is the appropriate course of action. If the welfare charities can't get onto his land with out his permission then maybe we should be lobbying the local police and trading standard people? I don't think the RSPCA have powers of removal, they are not even allowed on property without the property owners request, they can only remove if animals are in their care (i.e signed over) .... police or trading standards are the only ones with the power of removal
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Post by merlod on May 20, 2011 10:52:44 GMT
We've got a lovely colt with superb bloodlines. Guess we might as well cut him now.
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Post by tanfanaris on May 20, 2011 10:55:37 GMT
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Post by honeypot on May 20, 2011 10:57:33 GMT
Instructing a soliciter is expensive and on no win no fee what will they get a damages. Proving abuse and neglect is very difficult and expensive, that way the RSPCA hate to go to court. Unfortuately one of our board memebers has seen how little real justice prosicution brings. www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php/t-433402.html A cheap and simple way to lobby and change the WPCS is to join them and fight from the inside. The League against Cruel sports were vey effective in getting hunting stopped on NT land by getting people to join and got loads of publicity. Getting people to go to the AGM ans supporting people from outside the 'normal clique' may effect change. Q. How much does membership of the WPCS cost? A. £30.50 Got to be worth a punt? I also thing negative publicity is a great thing, your next WPCs show print some pictures off and take the round the lorry park, just put af actual statement with links to the facebook page. Shame them in to putting there house in order. Also the purchase of a cheap website £6.95 a month with pages that people can post there pic so they can be easily seen and linked back to and not have to scoll through pages. All information factual so people do not have to hunt for information. Catchy web name needed? They will be wanting this to go a way, they we keep their collective heads down and hope this will die out. If this is still going in a couple of months they will be more worried. I do think there needs a formal structure for coordination and having been on normal commitees realise no one really wants the task it may be easier to piggy back on to a charity like Market Watch that already has a constition and commitee and form a sub group. These ponies need to have their lives changed for the better and I think changing peoples attitudes and behavoir is quicker than trying to chase them through the courts.
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Post by poneydestiny on May 20, 2011 10:57:40 GMT
HAPPENING NOW 12:00 to 2:00 Radio Wales Phone IN with Jason Mohamed tel wales 03700100110 text 81012 Let's be HEARD!
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Post by poneydestiny on May 20, 2011 11:03:04 GMT
Ref Courts, I repeat, in France, animal cruelty is a crime. Police and state veterinary officers are involved, any citizen can make a complaint. In my case with my massacred pony I was offered free legal assistance to join my private complaint (which we did use) to add strength and substance to my original complaint. I was backed by the legal departments of the French Horse Protection Association, Foundation Brigitte Bardot and 30 million Amies. This was at no cost to myself and I again repeat, there are lawyers who take high profile causes which they believe in at no fee, as it brings them corollary business and much free free publicity - this is just the real world
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