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Post by magpie on Mar 28, 2012 13:01:27 GMT
I understand where you are coming from, however, from what I have seen from the few RIHS qualifiers that have been so far is that there are little or no H/F/D coming forward to jump the smaller jumps when they have the opportunity to do so! Personally, I have a 14hh highland who absolutely adores jumping and I would love to have a crack around a RIHS course, the only thing is we are in Cornwall so I am not going to go chasing every qualifier up country, I will just have to pick one and hope for the best. However, where are all the people who are complaining that there fell, dale or highland will have to compete against connies etc and why are they not supporting the allowances that RIHS have made for them? HOYS is a different matter, this does not come into play until 2013, there should have been more thought on the new height divisions, but to be fair, the amount of hairies competing on the circuit is very minimum so how are they supposed to take it into consideration?
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Post by titch on Mar 28, 2012 13:10:51 GMT
If a pony hasn't got the scope then do flats! My friends 14hh newforest qualified for the exceeding and i have also seen a 14 highland qualify. Not all ponies are meant to jump big and if not stick to local. I think the changes are great news and will help some of the heavier breeds. You could always buy a newforest or connemara? Why do people alsways moan when people are doing there best to move forward.
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Post by vikki85 on Mar 28, 2012 13:56:28 GMT
If a pony hasn't got the scope then do flats! My friends 14hh newforest qualified for the exceeding and i have also seen a 14 highland qualify. Not all ponies are meant to jump big and if not stick to local. I think the changes are great news and will help some of the heavier breeds. You could always buy a newforest or connemara? Why do people alsways moan when people are doing there best to move forward. I think most people would agree with you titch and have no problem with them trying to accomodate the heavier breeds, however I think one of the worries is that this change is going to come at the expense of the ponies in the upper height class. But we don't even know for sure whether the fence heights will increase for the over 143cm yet... |
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Post by Guestless on Mar 28, 2012 14:45:33 GMT
If a pony hasn't got the scope then do flats! My friends 14hh newforest qualified for the exceeding and i have also seen a 14 highland qualify. There's been more than one Highland qualified - indeed I think as far back as 2000, it was a Highland pony that won the overall championship (and a lovely Highland at that!)  |
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Post by magpie on Mar 28, 2012 14:58:02 GMT
Dunedin Harris I believe that was Guestless Sophie hetherton-davies (who went champ with a fell last year) competed with a lovely highland - Ponts Green Uist - but it was 138cms but went overheight and still Q for the over 138cms the year after. Stourton jethro also qualified in under 138cms and there a few more...There have been a few highlands and fells qualifying over the years but has a Dales ever qualified for M&M WHP? |
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Post by Guestless on Mar 28, 2012 18:02:29 GMT
Dunedin Harris I believe that was Guestless That's the one - and he was Olympia champ the previous year  |
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Post by CRNativePonies on Mar 30, 2012 9:35:16 GMT
If a pony hasn't got the scope then do flats! My friends 14hh newforest qualified for the exceeding and i have also seen a 14 highland qualify. Not all ponies are meant to jump big and if not stick to local. I think the changes are great news and will help some of the heavier breeds. You could always buy a newforest or connemara? Why do people alsways moan when people are doing there best to move forward. I think you'll find a Fell won HOYS Workers last year. Maybe if the courses were made easier for F/D/H then more would come forward! Stick to local? So basically not give all m&m working hunter ponies a chance? Don't think the heavier breeds should be penalised just because they cant jump as well as other breeds. After all it is mountain and moorland working hunter, not Newforest, connemara and welsh pony working hunter, ALL breeds should be given a fair chance regardless if they are naturally able to jump or not. I know lots of people that are going to give RIHS a shot because the height of the fences in the larger section are smaller for F/D/H making it more fair for these chunky breeds to jump! I personally think there is nothing better than seeing a Fell, Dales or Highland pony jumping and doing well at it! |
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Post by CRNativePonies on Mar 30, 2012 9:36:24 GMT
And why would i want to buy a new forest or a connemara to jump? Thats very rude and ignorant of you titch
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Post by bigmama on Mar 30, 2012 9:50:02 GMT
If a pony hasn't got the scope then do flats! My friends 14hh newforest qualified for the exceeding and i have also seen a 14 highland qualify. There's been more than one Highland qualified - indeed I think as far back as 2000, it was a Highland pony that won the overall championship (and a lovely Highland at that!) erm, that was TWELVE years ago and working hunter courses have changed very much in height, width and style since then ... let's talk about recent years ... please someone do tell me which highlands and dales exceeding 138cms have qualified Hoys M&M Working Hunter in the past FIVE years ..... and how many have completed a clear round @ the final .. some knowledgeable buff must know and yes, Teddyboy is right, the class description is not Hoys M&M WHP exceeding 138cms EXCLUDING highlands, fells and dales! so many of you are missing the point ... there must be an opportunity for ALL of our native breeds to display their jumping abilities WITHIN THEIR BREED TYPE at topmost level |
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Post by CRNativePonies on Mar 30, 2012 10:06:23 GMT
so many of you are missing the point ... there must be an opportunity for ALL of our native breeds to display their jumping abilities WITHIN THEIR BREED TYPE at topmost level EXACTLY! Jackie you hit the nail on the head there |
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Post by Guestless on Mar 30, 2012 10:06:37 GMT
erm, that was TWELVE years ago and working hunter courses have changed very much in height, width and style since then ... let's talk about recent years ... please someone do tell me which highlands and dales exceeding 138cms have qualified Hoys M&M Working Hunter in the past FIVE years ..... and how many have completed a clear round @ the final .. some knowledgeable buff must know Why does it matter when it was?! Unless I've missed something (which to be fair is entirely possible!  ), the height of the jumps hasn't altered since then and I have some vague recollection that the width may have been reduced.  I'm in agreement for the height to be reduced for the hairies but I don't think that means we shouldn't celebrate the hairies that have been exceptional enough to compete on a level pegging with the more athletically-built natives. |
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Post by bigmama on Mar 30, 2012 10:18:01 GMT
erm, that was TWELVE years ago and working hunter courses have changed very much in height, width and style since then ... let's talk about recent years ... please someone do tell me which highlands and dales exceeding 138cms have qualified Hoys M&M Working Hunter in the past FIVE years ..... and how many have completed a clear round @ the final .. some knowledgeable buff must know Why does it matter when it was?! Unless I've missed something (which to be fair is entirely possible! ), the height of the jumps hasn't altered since then and I have some vague recollection that the width may have been reduced. I'm in agreement for the height to be reduced for the hairies but I don't think that means we shouldn't celebrate the hairies that have been exceptional enough to compete on a level pegging with the more athletically-built natives. I disagree ... we have competed hoys m&m workers for ten years with Welsh A, Dartmoor, Welsh C, Connemara ponies and i distinctly remember height increases being implemented ... furthermore, David Cole recently wrote in H&H about the Hoys courses changing ... ... i am still waiting to hear names of those 'hairy' ponies which you say 'have been exceptional enough to compete on a level pegging with the more athletically-built natives' IN THE EXCEEDING 138cms HOYS CLASSES ... yes there have been a few in the 122-138cm class but i stress, i am talking about the exceeding 138cms class Anyone? Thank you |
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Post by bigmama on Mar 30, 2012 10:27:14 GMT
I'm just concerned as to whether the over 143cm class is going to increase in fence height to what the current height is now for the over 138cm. There's a big difference between a welsh cob standing at just over 14hh and one pushing 16hh even if they are the same breed. Not to mention the Highlands that are over 14hh - IMO, that is the big downside to the proposals...great that more Highlands will now get into the smaller section, but it still leaves up to height ponies in the large height section.  Guestless ... have just read this you posted on page 1 and this is exactly what i am on about |
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Post by Kerbeck on Mar 30, 2012 10:31:09 GMT
My old instructor was champ worker on a fell some years ago, I can't remeber his name but his stable name was Jasper, she was one of only 2 clears in the class (the other a connie) Jasper did a foot perfect show and the connie spooked and swapped legs in the gallop so Jasper won, but he was being piloted by a through and through show jumper whose Mum has competed for England and Sarah herself told me she wouldn't now attempt a hoys track with a hairy as it pushing them way beyond their natural capabilities, yes of course their will be the odd one that has done well but I completely disagree with what Titch is saying.
Just beacuse the F/D/H aren't as naturally athletic does not mean that they should be stuck at local level! My fell will not be doing workers until next year any way and then he will only be doing novices but he is a top class pony so why should he be excluded from competing at a high level? It is also important to remember that there is a lot of variety in type of each breed, my fell is a chunky old fashioned boy not one of the finer fells.
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Post by Guestless on Mar 30, 2012 10:39:18 GMT
I think that was Quarryhouse Jasper I believed he qualified in the mid height section then was measured out and proceeded to qualify for the large height section the following year. bigmama - you do appear "to be on about" the same issues as I am, so I have no idea why you are jumping on me for daring to name a Highland that defied the odds just because it was 12 years ago! I believe Ponts Green Uist qualified in the large height section in 2008 - no idea about any others. |
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Post by Kerbeck on Mar 30, 2012 10:44:03 GMT
Ah yes thats him Guestless
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Post by flagmountmolly08 on Mar 30, 2012 12:33:03 GMT
i think its good spliting the sections into 4 heights. as currently i have to jump my 12.3 exmoor in the middle height section where we are the smallest in our section!
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Post by CRNativePonies on Mar 30, 2012 14:02:10 GMT
This new rule change will either work or not depending on the height of your pony. My fell is 13.1hh which now means he has to compete against ponies which are 14hh, majority of which will no doubt be connemaras and new forests. My Fell is very chunky and compact and is by no means built to jump. At the end of the day these hairy breeds love to jump just as much as connys and new forests so why penalise them just because they aren't as able! (excusing the odd one or two) That doesn't mean that ponies that can't compete at RIHS and HOYS should be banished to riding club shows?! They should be given a fair chance as im sure people would love to see MORE Fells, Dales and Highlands compete at a higher level but this can only happen if they're given a fairer chance against the lighter, more agile breeds!
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Post by lancs on Mar 31, 2012 14:05:45 GMT
Anyone know yet what the height of the fences is going to be ?
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Post by hs on Mar 31, 2012 18:20:06 GMT
Whilst i do have some sympathy with TeddyBear I do think some breeds excell in certain things more than others, for example how many new forests have taken the flat championships at HOYS?
I wonder perhaps if there is an issue with not enough hairies qualifying for the workers if instead of making the jumps easier for them, having a seperate class for them in a similar way that there is now going to be for the new forests on the flat. This would ensure that some would get through, however like the new forest in the flat classes once they get there they would still up against the other breeds that tend to do better.
Look at how many dales and highlands and fells got through to Olympia compared to new forests last year, the hairies may be better on the flat. I think however hard people try it is going to be impossible for everyone to be equal. I don't have a lot of money and have to work full time so don't have a lot of time either so it would be harder perhaps for me to qualify a pony for the big championships than say someone who could afford to pay a producer or have lots of lessons etc but it does this mean I should be given an extra chance to qualify for something to make things equal? Sometimes we just have to accept life is just not equal.
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Post by girly on Mar 31, 2012 18:57:01 GMT
I think however hard people try it is going to be impossible for everyone to be equal. I don't have a lot of money and have to work full time so don't have a lot of time either so it would be harder perhaps for me to qualify a pony for the big championships than say someone who could afford to pay a producer or have lots of lessons etc but it does this mean I should be given an extra chance to qualify for something to make things equal? Sometimes we just have to accept life is just not equal. I am beginning to think that too many people feel that they have a "right" to qualify for HOYS and the RI and instead of getting ponies that are able to do the classes they want the classes altered to suit their ponies. Where will it stop. Will we have LR and FR open to all heights and ages so that people won't feel left out and WHP classes with jumps as poles on the ground because not everyone likes jumping I am not against change if it is well thought out and is a result of proper consultation and not driven by vociferous people who are only thinking about getting the best result for their own particular ponies. |
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Post by whp94 on Mar 31, 2012 21:36:42 GMT
I think however hard people try it is going to be impossible for everyone to be equal. I don't have a lot of money and have to work full time so don't have a lot of time either so it would be harder perhaps for me to qualify a pony for the big championships than say someone who could afford to pay a producer or have lots of lessons etc but it does this mean I should be given an extra chance to qualify for something to make things equal? Sometimes we just have to accept life is just not equal. I am beginning to think that too many people feel that they have a "right" to qualify for HOYS and the RI and instead of getting ponies that are able to do the classes they want the classes altered to suit their ponies. Where will it stop. Will we have LR and FR open to all heights and ages so that people won't feel left out and WHP classes with jumps as poles on the ground because not everyone likes jumping I am not against change if it is well thought out and is a result of proper consultation and not driven by vociferous people who are only thinking about getting the best result for their own particular ponies. I agree with you girly. I have an exmoor who loves jumping but its very unlikely she'll ever jump any HOYS/RI tracks as she will be pushed to her limits with the height, not being funny but I'm not like girly has said feel I have the right to have the height change to suit her capabilities, we just stick to things within her league/limits. I think at the end of the day whatever changes societies make to classes, there not going to always please everyone. Societies do there best to try and please everyone yet there's always people moaning about whatever issues - its quite simple, if you don't like the new height sections of the HOYS quals don't compete in them, surely?! |
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Post by katieg14 on Mar 31, 2012 21:47:18 GMT
I have a 13hh section B and I never did the RI/HOYS workers as he couldnt do the 2"9 tracks but now if they hav the 13h's jumping 2"6 I might be able to have a go. It will help lots of people who had small pony but just measured out of the 12.2hh. It also give the 11hh and 11.2hh ponys a better chance to qualify if they have it 2"3 or even 2" for there hieght.
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kayjayem
Happy to help....a lot
Posts: 10,046
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Post by kayjayem on Mar 31, 2012 22:03:21 GMT
My friends 12.1 sec B had to jump in the 13.2's. She managed the courses but was dwarfed(small pony, big heart), she'll be much better off.
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Post by girly on Mar 31, 2012 22:11:12 GMT
It will help lots of people who had small pony but just measured out of the 12.2hh. It also give the 11hh and 11.2hh ponys a better chance to qualify if they have it 2"3 or even 2" for there hieght. The height limit for the smalls has always been 122 not 128. The small section usually has the most amount of clear rounds in both qualifying classes and the finals, how much easier do you think it should be. |
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Post by nici on Apr 1, 2012 16:16:11 GMT
We have a Shetland that is a fantastic natural jumper. With the right jockey I'm sure he could do really well in Workers. However it would be really tough for him, at 40", to be competing against Welsh ponies 2 hands higher. Maybe one day though, if my jockeys get brave enough |
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Post by katieg14 on Apr 1, 2012 18:59:07 GMT
sorry i did mean to say 12hh and i tink it sould be easier in the way that more pony like shetlands will have a better oportunity to get to the final as the jumps will be more there hieght with this change.
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Post by vikki85 on Apr 2, 2012 12:03:44 GMT
I don't think it's necessarily that people think they have a "right" to qualify, rather that it is an M&M workers class at the end of the day, so should accommodate ALL M&M breeds and take their natural abilities into account. I don't think anyone is asking for "poles on the ground", just a bit of equality. M&M breeds can differ so much in scope, so I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want the hairier breeds to be taken into consideration?
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Post by titch on Apr 2, 2012 12:18:23 GMT
Let's face it working cobs at county level only have to jump 2ft9 and they are 155cm!!! A course can be testing and tricky without being huge! Fences can be scary angles can differ. You can do alot with a course to make it hard without making it huge!!! Also technique is important which height doesn't really affect.
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Post by Guestless on Apr 2, 2012 12:24:35 GMT
I don't think it's necessarily that people think they have a "right" to qualify, rather that it is an M&M workers class at the end of the day, so should accommodate ALL M&M breeds and take their natural abilities into account. I don't think anyone is asking for "poles on the ground", just a bit of equality. M&M breeds can differ so much in scope, so I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want the hairier breeds to be taken into consideration? Hear, hear  |
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), the height of the jumps hasn't altered since then and I have some vague recollection that the width may have been reduced. 
