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Post by busybusy on Apr 2, 2012 13:13:22 GMT
I totally agree with Titch - some of the M&M courses are plenty big enough....I truly hope that the max height for the larges does not increase - this would not be to the benefit of any true to type native - regardless of the breed!
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Post by JadeCannon on Apr 2, 2012 16:18:05 GMT
I do think that although the rules and classes may need refinement - WE ALL need to applaud the decision to add a class at HOYS! Onwards and upwards M&M's!!!
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Post by poodle123 on Apr 3, 2012 16:50:06 GMT
Is it any wonder that these societies are loosing money, members and credability year on year when making decisions without thinking through the consequences!!!
I do not see how this will benefit the less athletic breeds. So now with this new rule most section C's will be jumping in a different section over perhaps a bigger course??? I think the courses are big enough already.
It would be helpful if they published the heights of these classes as well as the changes so we all know where we stand instead of everyone playing a guessing game!
Perhaps also it would be nice if these societies asked their members their views on such radical changes before going ahead and jumping in the deep end without even confirming the final details.
As usual we are yet again at the mercy of organisers who themselves do NOT understand the requirements of the competitors.
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Post by bigmama on Apr 3, 2012 21:01:12 GMT
I think that was Quarryhouse Jasper  I believed he qualified in the mid height section then was measured out and proceeded to qualify for the large height section the following year.  bigmama - you do appear "to be on about" the same issues as I am, so I have no idea why you are jumping on me for daring to name a Highland that defied the odds just because it was 12 years ago! I believe Ponts Green Uist qualified in the large height section in 2008 - no idea about any others. I am not jumping on you guestless, perhaps i am over-enthusiastic! sorry .. just want to bring all this into the present date and people frequently refer to ten or more years ago .... Quote from Dunedin Stud website "Dunedin Harris NPS/Baileys Horse FeedsM&M Ridden Pony of the year - Olympia 1999 NPS/ PA Systems M&M WHP of the year - HOYS 2000" .. an exceptional pony Quarry House Jasper's Hoys Win 2005 re. magpie "from what I have seen from the few RIHS qualifiers that have been so far is that there are little or no H/F/D coming forward to jump the smaller jumps when they have the opportunity to do so!" ... we are just waiting for those very qualifiers further north and have entered our highland ... pic of him jumping @ open heritage ec 138cms bsps 2b show last weekend courtesy of Ken Etteridge ;D  |
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Post by titch on Apr 3, 2012 21:35:50 GMT
What fab photos!!! Your highland definitely looks like he has scope!
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Post by lilliella1 on Apr 6, 2012 19:57:27 GMT
I dont like these changes, we have a 13.2 welsh C and that now means we will be up against the big connies, newforests etc or i think they could have split it shetties, welsh a and b darties, then c's, dales, fells highlands and then connies, welsh d's etc??
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Post by bigmama on Apr 7, 2012 18:46:54 GMT
aaw thanx titch  |
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Post by hedgehopper on Apr 20, 2012 18:57:48 GMT
I'll be having fun then,I have a 13.2 welsh c and a 13.1 fell!
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Post by bigmama on Apr 21, 2012 9:39:24 GMT
never had to measure our m&m's b4 as we knew they were under 138 and 148cms but yesterday whilst the farrier was here we put the stick on our ponies and yippee! one under 133cms and t'other under 143cms |
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Post by ellanorenatives on Apr 26, 2012 11:27:12 GMT
With a forester that measures at 139cm, i feel that the current workers rules of the hairies getting to jump the middle section yet they are exc 138cm in height is unfair regardless to whether they are less scopey,
our mare has to compete in large height section currently and would be in a more comfortable height section with the new rules which i'm happy about, also i will pick and choose which shows i go to to do workers as i don't want to be jumping her 3'3 on super hard ground she will hopefully have legs that last a long long time, so with the new heighting i hopefully won't have to be so picky.
I think alot of people will benefit from this xxxxxxx
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Post by suzysmartypants on Apr 26, 2012 13:00:18 GMT
Not alot of good for welsh C the majority of which come in at 13.1, and jumping against the connies and NF. My welsh C has a LHC of 134.5cm, we didn't even trim his feet as he was an easy measure (for 137) am I about to be the first to report myself to the remaesurement board!! !
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Post by ellanorenatives on Apr 26, 2012 13:14:00 GMT
we have a C at home too but i can not see it would be a prob for him?? i think the heights of the fences for the new sections need to be exposed, or if they have i havn't seen them as of yet xx
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Post by suzysmartypants on Apr 26, 2012 13:31:42 GMT
True depends on the heights of fences. I assume this will mean that all M and Ms will need height certs beforehand in the same way that plaiteds do. While we are re arranging how about junior m and m WHP classes, as at Ri there are junior flat M and M, and workers is a discipline where experience is a definite advantage, it would encourage youngsters to really appreciate a good native pony, without having to compete against rider producers.
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Post by ellanorenatives on Apr 27, 2012 11:21:37 GMT
I think this is a great idea!!!!!!!! also they won't have to compete against the producers themselves either which in my experience tends to put the kids off seeing a producers face in the same class as them!!! x
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Post by suzysmartypants on Apr 27, 2012 12:42:11 GMT
I can't think why it hasn't been done already. The junior Ri M and M are popular classes, and many M and M ponies are the backbone of many pony clubs, so it would encourage them to come forward and give it a go. We should be supporting our native breeders. When the height categories change, we have to remember that alot of juniors wont be eligible to ride stallions, and depending on the height of the jumps, conformation may start to become much more important.
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Post by forester on May 8, 2012 14:29:04 GMT
This new rule change will either work or not depending on the height of your pony. My fell is 13.1hh which now means he has to compete against ponies which are 14hh, majority of which will no doubt be connemaras and new forests. My Fell is very chunky and compact and is by no means built to jump. At the end of the day these hairy breeds love to jump just as much as connys and new forests so why penalise them just because they aren't as able! (excusing the odd one or two) That doesn't mean that ponies that can't compete at RIHS and HOYS should be banished to riding club shows?! They should be given a fair chance as im sure people would love to see MORE Fells, Dales and Highlands compete at a higher level but this can only happen if they're given a fairer chance against the lighter, more agile breeds! i think your missing the point you keep going on about new forests and connies but what about the welsh C's? and there are some small sec D's too! I cant see the height for the exceeeding 143cms being any bigger than it already is i think this is a step in the right direction myself as why should i compete my 143cm new forest against all the 148cm connies and welsh cobs? i think the height of the 133cm-143cm will be 2'6 - 3'0 i for one will now look forward to next years qualifers and hope NPS and BSPS follow in the footsteps of HOYS Again RIHS have made H/F/D have the height altered for them to max height 2'9 i too havent seen any take advantage of this! |
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Post by bigmama on May 8, 2012 18:37:25 GMT
We have done two RI M&M WH quals so far with our 142cms highland .. he had a pole @ Derbys Spring and two poles indoors on a tight twisty course NPS 5 and was placed 6th Other H/F/D whps we have done with our highland include the open H/F/D @ Equifest 2011 (1st), the novice H/F/D @ Equifest (1st & Res Champ), open H/F/D NCPA Spring 2012 (1st), open H/F/D NCPA Open show 7/5/12 (1st, Champ & Res Supreme) .. wish there were more in the classes .. c'mon guys, Equifest, NCPA and NPS are putting on the H/F/D workers for you this year so please show your support otherwise we could lose them  |
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Post by jump4joy on May 26, 2012 23:36:08 GMT
Either way don't mind the changes to M&M worker heights, our pony measured 136.8, he was born /bred as a D down graded to a C..( actually looks like a shire yearling ;-) ) we are only talking inches here and i found that in the previous middle height section the smaller finer B's i.e. the 13h plaited worker types won more often than not..these new changes will give the stronger type of pony more 'like for like' competition in the not ex 143cm class. Change is good. M & M workers were getting boring... competition is good hairies or not. Our pony is not a quality pony, quite common not athletic a clod-hopping hairy 'potato planter' IMO.. but he has won every major champs (bar HOYS & RI) since being a novice. We did not show him for 2 seasons, on his comeback show (Heritage Champs) he won the open, 3rd in the performance, won the restricted and jumped my daughter off in the gold cup (tried to bounce the double)..so i am looking forward to him dusting off his feathers, peering through his long forelock clodd-hopping round and kicking some A*S!!
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Post by Sharon Allen on Sept 30, 2012 12:51:55 GMT
Horse of the Year Show, the “World’s Most Famous Horse Show”, has confirmed the new fence heights and spreads for the Mountain & Moorland Working Hunter Pony classes, due to come into effect at the start of the 2013 qualifying season. These new fence heights have been put in place following extensive research and discussion, as has splitting the classes into four equine height divisions, as opposed to the current three.
The impetus behind the change was to create the most equal playing field possible by studying the average heights and then capabilities of each breed and dividing the class sections up in a way that no one breed would be penalised for any particular inherent trait.
From 2013, there will be different minimum and maximum heights, and maximum spreads, for the courses at the Championship compared with those at qualifying shows. These are outlined below:
HOYS Championship Height:
Section
Height (Min)
Height (Max)
Spread (Max)
Not Exc. 122cm
60cm
70cm
60cm
Exc. 122cm; Not exc. 133cm
70cm
85cm
70cm
Exc. 133cm; Not exc. 143cm
80cm
95cm
80cm
Exc. 143cm
90cm
105cm
90cm
HOYS Qualifier Height:
Section
Height (Min)
Height (Max)
Spread (Max)
Not Exc. 122cm
55cm
65cm
55cm
Exc. 122cm; Not exc. 133cm
65cm
80cm
65cm
Exc. 133cm; Not exc.143cm
75cm
90cm
75cm
Exc. 143cm
85cm
100cm
85cm
By dividing the entrants into more precise height categories, the fence sizes will be less variable. Therefore the ponies which are currently at the lower end of their height sections, will, from 2013, be jumping slightly smaller fences, more suited to their abilities.
For instance, ponies such as the Dales, Fell and Highland, although at present fall into the same larger height category of some of the Welsh sections or Connemara, do not have the athletic ability to match such breeds. To compete in the same class section with the same fence heights and spreads, therefore, puts them at a distinct disadvantage, due to their innate jumping ability.
The extra height division will therefore create a more even playing field, with all ponies of similar abilities competing against each other, rather than being based purely on height. The spread of the fences for ponies at the upper end of their height category will be 10cm narrower than at the lower end, which, given the tight turns and concentration of fences in the Caldene Arena at Horse of the Year Show, will make a noticeable difference.
Mountain & Moorland classes have been an important and popular element of the HOYS timetable since 1999. These positive changes will be implemented for 2013 to ensure that each breed is truly represented and celebrated at the “World’s Most Famous Horse Show”.
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Post by gemstone on Sept 30, 2012 13:25:27 GMT
This is all great news for everyone.
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Post by wyndham on Sept 30, 2012 16:10:09 GMT
Sounds good ,but still think all m/ms should have JMB certs,other wise the split will be pointless.
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Post by cyffryn on Oct 2, 2012 8:08:02 GMT
It's good that new forests are getting a bigger bite of the apple. Unfortunately they do often seem to be overshadowed by the connies in many classes and I know from stewarding many judges are not sure if they are NF. Re highlands - I still do not think they have addressed the larger height issue. There have been a couple of exceptional highlands who are athletic and typy enough to do well but they are the exception rather than the rule ( I think Rose Macpherson was well placed with Trowan Moulin one year). The larger hairies are not bred to jump - which does not mean they can't at a reasonable level. We still want our WH ponies to be a good example of the breed type. If a highland jumps well but looks like a connie it is not going to do well enough in type/ conf marks to qualify hence the reason we do not see so many forward in the big classes although some excellent ponies in the smaller heights. I would also say very strongly it is verging on a welfare issue to encourage people to push our hairies over these big jumps. I have seen many that will jump big heights but unfortunately suffer for it later. Surely the height / spread doesn't have to be big - a course can be made more difficult in other ways. So there is improvement but still a way to go |
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Post by bigmama on Oct 2, 2012 10:38:45 GMT
Now that we have the heights sorted, do you think that there should be some compulsory technical fences in the qualifiers? for eg. there must be at least two technical fences from a list (bullfinch, off-set combination, sheep-pen, watersplash, etc)
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I believed he qualified in the mid height section then was measured out and proceeded to qualify for the large height section the following year. 
