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Post by magpie on Mar 26, 2012 14:54:02 GMT
Taken from The Native Pony magazine status update: Important M&M changes for HOYS 2013: Next year HOYS will be running 8 stand alone qualifiers for New Forest Ponies, split away from the Connemaras, against who they usually compete. Although for the final the two breeds will be judged as a combined class. In addition, new height divisions for M&M WH classes will be introduced (not exceeding 122cm, not exceeding 133cm, not exceeding 143cm and exceeding 143cm). Great news for the New Forests! Hopefully there will be more represented next year  Also, for me the height changes is a good thing as my Highland is 14hh, however for those with hairies over 14hh I can see that it will be difficult for them - no news on what heights they will be. Also good news for those who have been wanting to compete with a 12.2 and having to be up against a 13.2hh. Modified to include link from the HOYS website - www.hoys.co.uk/blog/index.php/2012/03/26/new-forest-ponies-get-stand-alone-hoys-qualifiers-and-new-mm-working-hunter-divisions-announced-for-2013and link from Native Pony SW www.native-pony.com/?p=1136What are your views? |
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Post by connie on Mar 26, 2012 15:29:03 GMT
So does that mean there will be 8 extra ponies at the final or 8 qualifiers the connies can't enter? (if that makes sense)
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Post by magpie on Mar 26, 2012 15:39:50 GMT
From what I can gather, it means there will be a minimum of 8 NF at the final, the connies cannot enter these classes. However, the other classes not restricted to NF will be a combined NF/connie class which means that a NF could win that too. Hope that makes sense. It is the same as the separate highland classes but they can still compete in the H/F/D class and win one of those.
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Post by haggismarmite on Mar 26, 2012 16:40:33 GMT
I wonder if this will filter down to the other society's M&M workers as well.
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Post by hs on Mar 26, 2012 19:58:57 GMT
I hope so almost contemplating taking up showing again! I wonder if this will filter down to the other society's M&M workers as well. |
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abcd
Newbie
Posts: 0
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Post by abcd on Mar 26, 2012 20:02:37 GMT
I think the new M&M workers height section sounds really good |
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emzkes
Junior Member
Posts: 175 
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Post by emzkes on Mar 26, 2012 20:15:53 GMT
As a new forest pony owner good news on the eextra qualifers but doh on the working hunter changes as my pony is 13.2hh !but will b fairer for a lot of ponies :-)
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Post by connie on Mar 26, 2012 20:18:35 GMT
I wonder how many new forests we will see coming out next season? Will also be interesting to see what they do with the heights of the jumps for the whp - will the 133 jump 2ft 9 and the 143 3ft or the 133 2ft 6 and the 143 2ft 9?
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Post by CRNativePonies on Mar 26, 2012 20:23:00 GMT
I think these new rule changes will make no difference whatsoever especially to the highlands and dales. Why give new forests the chance to qualify on their own but no other breed? This doesn't make it more fair for all breeds at all because the heavier breeds such as fells, dales and highlands are still going to be up against the likes of connemaras etc that are much more capable at jumping! I think RIHS have got the right idea in keeping the sections the same but letting the over 148cm fells, dales and highlands jump smaller fences. Proves how much HOYS really know about the native breeds to think that this is more 'fair' when in my oppinion it doesn't make a difference? I compete in workers myself so this means my 13.1hh fell pony will be up against the likes of connys and new forests that are much lighter and athletic.
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Post by katieg14 on Mar 26, 2012 20:38:53 GMT
hopefully the whp is 133 jumping 2ft6 and 143 jumping 2ft9 otherwise if the 138 have to jump 3ft they might not do it as at the final its going to be bigger again and they might not be able to jump it making it so less people will be doing it.
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Post by elmere on Mar 26, 2012 21:28:22 GMT
I think these new rule changes will make no difference whatsoever especially to the highlands and dales. Why give new forests the chance to qualify on their own but no other breed? This doesn't make it more fair for all breeds at all because the heavier breeds such as fells, dales and highlands are still going to be up against the likes of connemaras etc that are much more capable at jumping! I think RIHS have got the right idea in keeping the sections the same but letting the over 148cm fells, dales and highlands jump smaller fences. Proves how much HOYS really know about the native breeds to think that this is more 'fair' when in my oppinion it doesn't make a difference? I compete in workers myself so this means my 13.1hh fell pony will be up against the likes of connys and new forests that are much lighter and athletic. I think you've got a bit mixed up, the new forest qualifiers are for the flats and a completly different rule change. I would like to know how much the fence sizes have changed by as this will have made it harder for the smaller hairy breeds by the sounds of it. I dont see why they couldnt have just kept the original sections and then added a over 148cm class aswel. |
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Post by hs on Mar 26, 2012 21:50:46 GMT
If they added an over 148 class this would be only for the section D's and possibly I think Dales which do not have an upper height limit so perhaps would be a bit pointless as then there would be only one breed in the whole class as I don't think there are many Dales over 148.
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Post by whp94 on Mar 26, 2012 22:28:59 GMT
I like the sound of the new worker heights, I have a 143cm D! Although I cannot really see how it will help the hairy breeds much, a 14.2 highland for example will have to jump against the much more athletic connie/new forest at a decent sized height - not really fair? And also what about the Shetlands and bigger exmoors and darties?
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Post by titch on Mar 26, 2012 23:00:49 GMT
You would of thought once thought through they would of added the height of fences on the website. I have posted this question to them on the Hoys website.
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Post by vikki85 on Mar 27, 2012 8:16:01 GMT
Do we know whether the height for the exc. 143cm M&M WHP will be any higher than it currently is for the exc. 138cm?
ETA: Apparently not, only just read titch's post!
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Post by JadeCannon on Mar 27, 2012 8:42:33 GMT
I think its a step in the right direction and brilliant that the m&m whp will now have 4 sections at HOYS - let's keep building on it! - I do think the only way to fine tune it further is to combine the Nps and HOYS rule ( although I presume Nps will follow the HOYS rule next year anyway!)
So have 4 height sections but shetties jump 1st over a smaller height, then smalls, small middles, large middles, then hairies jump first over large middles in the largest section.
Not sure I'm making sense but overall I thank NPS and HOYS for at least trying to make a step in the right direction.
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Post by hursty100 on Mar 27, 2012 10:37:25 GMT
I'm really happy that the new forest have got there own section! I never see that many out an about- I think this could be a real posative for the new forest breed. Just like when the highlands split, there was an outburst of highlands appeared from now where (inc me lol).
And the split height section in the workers might encourage more fell, dales and highlands to compete in the workers section without being outdone by the lovely welshies, connies and NF.
I think its a great idea HOYS have done this!
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Post by CRNativePonies on Mar 27, 2012 10:55:09 GMT
Oh i see. got a bit confused, my mistake! Well thats great for the new forests! Still dont see how the change of the workers will make a difference though.. They should keep the height limits the same for each class but just change it so any fells,dales and highlands that compete in the exc 138cm can jump smaller fences. Hoys should just follow in the footsteps of RIHS
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Post by Guestless on Mar 27, 2012 11:07:48 GMT
They should keep the height limits the same for each class but just change it so any fells,dales and highlands that compete in the exc 138cm can jump smaller fences. Hoys should just follow in the footsteps of RIHS I don't agree with that. I do think Fells and Highlands can be less scopey than other natives (although there are still some pretty athletic Fells and Highlands around) but why should a 13.3hh New Forest jump the same course as a 15.2hh Welsh cob? I don't think there is a way to suit everyone and IMO this is a step in the right direction....although I will also be interested in seeing what the height for jumps will be. |
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Post by Kerbeck on Mar 27, 2012 15:28:04 GMT
Doesn't help me one bit with my 13.3 fell who will still have to jump against the welsh and the connies, I think the way RIHS have done it is much better personally.
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Post by elmere on Mar 27, 2012 15:38:41 GMT
Well if the size of fences go up as I presume they will then this makes it harder for the smaller heavier breeds that were in the under 138's before and then also harder the ones that measure over 143, the only ones it helps is the 138's to 143's which is a very small section of those out competing.  |
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Post by Guestless on Mar 27, 2012 21:25:31 GMT
Doesn't help me one bit with my 13.3 fell who will still have to jump against the welsh and the connies, I think the way RIHS have done it is much better personally. But you won't need to jump against anything taller than 14hh now as opposed to the previous classifications which would result in you jumping your 13.3hh against cobs that are 15hh+ - that has to be an improvement surely? |
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Post by frankie1 on Mar 28, 2012 7:18:29 GMT
I personally think it's a step in the right direction, as with anything new we'll have to see how it pans out but personally I'm happy that my 12.1 will now be jumping agains upto 13hh. When I came across to m and m I wasn't sure on the only three height sections as it didn't make much sense . Now to see what it's like and if it filters down, which would make perfect sense.
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Post by vikki85 on Mar 28, 2012 8:01:19 GMT
I'm just concerned as to whether the over 143cm class is going to increase in fence height to what the current height is now for the over 138cm. There's a big difference between a welsh cob standing at just over 14hh and one pushing 16hh even if they are the same breed.
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Post by Guestless on Mar 28, 2012 8:40:37 GMT
I'm just concerned as to whether the over 143cm class is going to increase in fence height to what the current height is now for the over 138cm. There's a big difference between a welsh cob standing at just over 14hh and one pushing 16hh even if they are the same breed. Not to mention the Highlands that are over 14hh - IMO, that is the big downside to the proposals...great that more Highlands will now get into the smaller section, but it still leaves up to height ponies in the large height section.  |
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Post by vikki85 on Mar 28, 2012 9:33:42 GMT
I'm just concerned as to whether the over 143cm class is going to increase in fence height to what the current height is now for the over 138cm. There's a big difference between a welsh cob standing at just over 14hh and one pushing 16hh even if they are the same breed. Not to mention the Highlands that are over 14hh - IMO, that is the big downside to the proposals...great that more Highlands will now get into the smaller section, but it still leaves up to height ponies in the large height section. Exactly Guestless - I know some people may say that if the ponies can't jump the height they aren't good enough for that level of competition anyway, but I do think it's a problem for people who own highlands and dales who are over 14hh and people with smaller or less scopey D's who could cope with the current height but maybe not much higher... |
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Post by Kerbeck on Mar 28, 2012 9:41:57 GMT
I see what your saying Guestless but he will still be jumping against connies, c's and d's plus newforests at 14hh and under which he is going to struggle with at that height! Maybe it is a step in the right direction but the f/d/h section need to have an allowance made for them if they are able to compete on a level playing field IMO
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Post by CRNativePonies on Mar 28, 2012 9:42:52 GMT
Yes fair enough but for me it means my 13.1hh fell has to jump against 14hh highlands, dales and connys? I think any of the heavier breeds having to jump against connys is unfair as they aren't as atheltic and scopey as them!
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Post by CRNativePonies on Mar 28, 2012 9:48:17 GMT
people campained for change because many of the highlands and dales are over 138cm and have to jump the higher section, this change doesnt help them at all as many of them will still be over 14hh and will have to jump the bigger section anyway? PLUS ponies that are only just over 13hh like my fell have to jump against ponies that are a whole hand higher than them! Completely unfair and dissapointing changes in my eyes. I personally think RIHS have got the right idea and its clear they've considered a lot more than hoys have. HOYS say this change will make it fairer for all breeds but i seriously disagree. Thats just my opinion anyway.
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Post by CRNativePonies on Mar 28, 2012 9:50:58 GMT
I see what your saying Guestless but he will still be jumping against connies, c's and d's plus newforests at 14hh and under which he is going to struggle with at that height! Maybe it is a step in the right direction but the f/d/h section need to have an allowance made for them if they are able to compete on a level playing field IMO I completly agree Kerbeck. Fells, Dales and Highlands should just be put in a class together! Then it will be a level playing field. Its like putting a rugby player up against a hurdler asking f/d/h to jump against connys and newforests! |
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