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Post by Crawling on Jun 9, 2012 21:29:11 GMT
I posted earlier in the week, my vet came out but would not give dectomax as said he wasn't bad enough and she could not see any lice or mites? I think he needs dectomax so was wondering where in the northwest I can get it from and if it Is given sub cut or IM injection? Also how much is given per kg?
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Post by colourz on Jun 9, 2012 21:41:39 GMT
I have used cattle spot on in the past for bad lice, not licenced for horses but my vet said it was ok, 10ml per 13hh upwards 5ml anything smaller
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Post by dancer on Jun 9, 2012 22:19:30 GMT
My Traditional had a Dectomax injection a few weeks ago & the vet recommended treating further with frontline spray - he hasn't been rubbing as much lately but there is another thread in the 'Lounge' re this & Deosect (followed by green oils) has been advised by another member so may be worth a try.
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Post by snapdragons on Jun 10, 2012 17:40:06 GMT
We use flypour for cattle foe ours,not licenced in this country for horses but is in other countries,but i dont put in anything infoal or poorly.
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Post by watchbank on Jun 10, 2012 17:42:38 GMT
I stabbed my OH with dectomax by accident once, poor fella was ill for about a week!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 17:53:19 GMT
I use 5mls of spot on - on all my ponies.
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Post by nia2311 on Jun 10, 2012 17:57:03 GMT
I stabbed my OH with dectomax by accident once, poor fella was ill for about a week! Oops. Well at least you know he didn't have mites
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Post by watchbank on Jun 10, 2012 18:12:03 GMT
I stabbed my OH with dectomax by accident once, poor fella was ill for about a week! Oops. Well at least you know he didn't have mites Haha i though i had killed him all he did was spew for a week, needless to say im not allowed to do the injections anymore
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Post by ikklecob on Jun 11, 2012 20:48:49 GMT
Sorry but why do you think you know better than your vet? What did he/she suggest ?
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Post by guesta on Jun 11, 2012 21:12:30 GMT
Dectomax is not licenced for use in horses, so when a vet uses it for horses it is used "off licence"
Ask your vet about using an ivermectin wash, it is ivermectin, prop glycol and is used as a wash, left on for 10 mins then washed off. It works well.
Has your vet taken a skin scrape to look for mites?
For all "off licence" use of any vet product a vet has to be involved.
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Post by nia2311 on Jun 11, 2012 22:51:47 GMT
Not condoning ignoring your vet, BUT lots of medicines are used off license, in animals and humans. Our rabbit has various meds, none of which are licensed for rabbits because there are basically no rabbit specific drugs at all. They are all licensed for cats or small dogs with the dosage calculated carefully based on body weight. He wouldn't be here today if we stuck with what is available "on license." So, just because Dectomax isn't licensed for horses does not mean it is wrong to use, but I too would follow your vet's advice.
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Post by Louise Dixon on Jun 12, 2012 6:15:36 GMT
I have used Dectomax with success for controlling mites (we use it regularly for sheep and calves), and agree with nia2311 that just because something is not licensed, it doesn't mean it is wrong to use it on a vet's advice, it just means the company hasn't paid for the testing to license it for that species, however, it is a very strong medication (it can be used for sheep scab - not that we have that!), and is also a powerful wormer, so I would imagine your vet is not wanting to give it to your horse unless it is a last resort for the mites. I would try the other suggestions first.
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Post by guesta on Jun 12, 2012 7:45:17 GMT
I wasn't saying it was wrong to use, far from it. But my concern was that Crawling was asking what dose, s/c or i/m inj etc as if she or he was going to go ahead and treat the horse themselves. The reason why these products are not licenced is because the research and testing has not been carried out or not reached the VMD requirements for drug use for animals in the uk or is licenced in another country but not in the UK, usually down to the cost. Contraindications have to considered.
In the UK we have the "Cascade" which I quote from NOAH.
"The cascade is a long-standing legal flexibility providing a rational balance between the legislative requirement for the vet surgeon to prescribe and use authorised vet medicines where they are available, and the need for professional freedom to prescribe other products where they are not. It is intended to increase the range of medicines available for veterinary use. Vets remain entirely responsible for the treatment of animals under their care: use of a medicine under the cascade should be capable of being supported by clear auditable clinical evidence to justify the vet's decision."
Products are used every day in practice "off licence" but vets do have to comply to the Cascade.
In europe vets do not hold drugs as vets do in the UK, a prescription is issued by the vet, taken to a pharmacist and then administed by the vet. Europe wants the UK to follow. This is something to think about!!
Crawling speak to your vet again and find out what his or her's thinking is on your horses problem.
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Post by nia2311 on Jun 12, 2012 7:55:07 GMT
Just to say loss of feather etc may not be due to lice or mites, but could be mud rash or something else, even at this time of year with the weather. Has this been ruled out?
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Post by carolla on Jun 12, 2012 8:15:30 GMT
You can buy from Wynnstay/ farm and pet if you have a county parish holding number and if they ask its for sheep. My horse 148cm trad 650kg has 20 mls in the neck.
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Post by CraWling on Jun 12, 2012 19:13:59 GMT
Sorry but why do you think you know better than your vet? What did he/she suggest ? simply because no skin scraping was taken, no history was taken ( but we told them anyway) and a bottle of tack shop lotion was given at the cost of 40 quid plus a call out fee! Surely anyone knows just because you can't actually see them crawling about they could easily be under the skin!!! So that is why I am looking to do the job myself that the vet should have done when they visited!
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Post by Crawling on Jun 12, 2012 19:16:05 GMT
You can buy from Wynnstay/ farm and pet if you have a county parish holding number and if they ask its for sheep. My horse 148cm trad 650kg has 20 mls in the neck. thanks carolla that was what I needed to know do you know any reputable places online? I don't think I'm near the place you mentioned
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Post by ikklecob on Jun 12, 2012 19:17:53 GMT
So ask them to do it. My vet refuses to give some drugs for mite as he has seen what happens when people get hold of them use them and they go wrong. They are often not licencesed for a reason. You pay your vet to do a job and they should do the job you ask.
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Post by Crawling on Jun 12, 2012 19:22:39 GMT
Just to say loss of feather etc may not be due to lice or mites, but could be mud rash or something else, even at this time of year with the weather. Has this been ruled out? no loss of feather just rubbing and small patch under forelock of hair missing also thinning of coat on face and general dullness of coat, lots and lots of matter in mane and tail, dry flaky and scabby looking was washed with dermoline yesterday till almost all flaky stuff gone and today there is loads again ! Typical of mites! And why no skin scraping done is beyond me!
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Post by nia2311 on Jun 12, 2012 19:42:27 GMT
I would agree a skin scraping is required. It could be a variety of skin conditions, including ringworm, or another fungal infection. It could indeed be mites. I would get a second opinion from another vet and ask for skin scraping to be checked under the microscope - its hardly a difficult thing to do.
I would still not be happy self-treating with Dectomax, purely as you don't know the correct dosage for your animal's weight and type.
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Post by Casey2013 on Jan 2, 2014 16:09:48 GMT
You can buy from Wynnstay/ farm and pet if you have a county parish holding number and if they ask its for sheep. My horse 148cm trad 650kg has 20 mls in the neck.
Can you please tell me if the Dectomax was given in the muscle or sub Q(under the skin)? All given in one location or split in two locations in the neck? Was there any soreness or inflammation that followed the injections? Thank you!!
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Post by chalky284 on Jan 2, 2014 17:22:11 GMT
Please don't administer dectomax yourself, it's a viscous fluid and is painful on injection. It's given into a large muscle mass ( neck or rump) if you really want your vet to give it, then request it or get a different vet to do it. There can be lots of problems with injecting medications, so you really are better having a professional do it. That said, you may be as well to try the wash and see if that works?
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Post by clifton on Jan 2, 2014 17:51:48 GMT
use switch or deosect and pig oil and sulphur also helps as well
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Post by 09rebel99 on Jan 2, 2014 19:55:48 GMT
I know someone that does the injections. One that they injected had a bad reaction. He was basically so sore all over he couldn't move or be touched. He stood at the back of his stable for 2 days and took about a week to come right. To be honest I was quite disgusted at it all! They wouldn't call the vet as they thought they might get in trouble. Poor horse!!!!
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Post by Guestless on Jan 2, 2014 23:46:45 GMT
I believe it is a subcutaneous injection when done - my vet is happy for me to inject muscles, eg oxytocin but was insistent that it had to be a vet who carried out the dectomax injection. I didn't think it made any difference anyway and wouldn't use it again without skin scrapings being done first.
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Post by taxpayer on Jan 3, 2014 0:36:25 GMT
Surely not being licensed for horses says it all....
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Post by viking on Jan 3, 2014 7:54:14 GMT
I imagine use of it would also invalidate any insurance.... ?
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Post by 09rebel99 on Jan 3, 2014 9:07:00 GMT
Surely not being licensed for horses says it all.... Not really. I had the Cartrofen injections on my lad about 11 years ago and that wasn't licensed for use in horses back then. The insurance even paid for it.
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Post by taxpayer on Jan 3, 2014 11:21:29 GMT
So there must be doubts about it,s effectivness and safety then, that they have not licensed it for horses, after 11 years! Would you give a horse cow,dog or sheep womers? No..... well.
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Post by Toaster on Jan 3, 2014 14:28:59 GMT
I think licensing it is quite expensive so not always done if use wouldnt be widespread but it doesn't nevessarily mean it's not suitable full stop
But I get what you are saying and certainly my vet will not give it as they say there are acceptable alternatives (granted, not identical but acceptable)
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