'Professonal Photographers' at county shows!!!!!

[truegrit]

I have been to several large county shows this season and I must say I am so disappointed with the quality of the photographs being taken by the so called professional photographers! Despite having several thousand pounds worth of photographic kit in their hands they seem completely clueless about how to take GOOD photographs of horses and the angles required to do so! They are there to capture a moment in time that you can reflect on for years to come, yet on most occasions despite wanting to pay good cash money for photos I have failed to find any that are good enough to buy! Often I wonder why you would even bother to press the shutter button on some of the shots they take! They don't seem to be able to notice when they have 'got the shot', they just seem to press the shutter button as many times a they can in the hope that one might work! As a keen photographer myself with a very modest camera I usually take much better pictures myself but it is not possible when you are showing yourself. They will then complain when they don't sell any pictures and can get aggressive towards the amateur photographers outside the rings that do a much better job! I am disappointed and let down for the umpteenth time this season with these so called professionals. Rant over!

[mollymalone]

Tell me about it!!!

My dad was an equine photographer and knows the importance of getting the striding right both for jumping and flat photographs. As you say, just constantly taking non stop photographs on shutter speed is pointless. Not taking in to account the surroundings and background is also irritating.

There are a number of photographers who I dont even go and view the photographs afterwards as the standard is so poor its a waste of time.

However, I have come across a very very good photographer this year local to me and I hope the expand. Every show they cover I have a choice of over 20 really good photographs to buy.

[Jessica]

Here here!! It isn't just striding, but more often than not the angle of the photograph. Often they seem intent on taking shots nearly head on and don't want to take proper side on ones! Very frustrating when you have had a good day and want something to remember it by.

[sundance20]

For the past 2 seasons I've only bought from one person who does local, always fab pictures! But when you're trying to be a photographer yourself as a future career you get all the more picky!

[ilovenatives]

My daughter won at our local county show recently and as we only show at local level it was a big win for her so of course we wanted a pic . They where all really rubbish but i had to buy a couple for her , cost me £38 for 2 rubbish pics without even a card frame and really thin photo paper . I took a better pic on my old mobile but it dosnt print out very clear as it is to small .

[leevale]

I have always had lovely pictures from county shows, its extremely rare that I don't find one or two I like

[fanfarefan]

i think some of the best photos we have are ones that i have taken on my little old camera !!!!! the best photographer i ever had take pictures was Chris Cook from Pleasure Prints RIP,, he always got it right

[truegrit]

Aug 17, 2013 20:55:31 GMT Jessica said:

Here here!! It isn't just striding, but more often than not the angle of the photograph. Often they seem intent on taking shots nearly head on and don't want to take proper side on ones! Very frustrating when you have had a good day and want something to remember it by.

Absolutely! With horses the ANGLE is everything! We have been to 8 shows this season county and breed association shows all of which have had photographers there. At every show I have been more than willing to part with my hard earned cash money for good photos. However, at only one of these shows (and some have been pretty big shows) have I found a picture good enough to purchase.

[truegrit]

Aug 18, 2013 9:44:56 GMT fanfarefan said:

i think some of the best photos we have are ones that i have taken on my little old camera !!!!! the best photographer i ever had take pictures was Chris Cook from Pleasure Prints RIP,, he always got it right

I agree, Pleasure prints used to do a decent job and also the chap from Real Time Imaging, but sadly these are never at the shows I have been to in recent years. (wasn't aware the Pleasure Prints chap had passed away...........are they still running as a business with a different photographer?)

I do think since the age of 'digital' cameras the quality has actually reduced because now we don't have the cost of film you can put practically anyone behind the camera whether they have experience at photographing horses or not. Still it would be in their interest if they are to attend equestrian events if they had photographers with horse experience as looking through pictures they have taken I can't imagine they sell many and therefore how do they make a living?

[lostweekends]

I know exactly what u mean by surroundings .We were at puk some lovely photos of my daughter in first big class ( fyfr in open final) steward in every one almost looked like posing for camera . I asked if could be edited to possibly crop him out of one was told no we don't. Also couldn't buy copyright to edit it myself.

[redwhiteblue]

I agree wholeheartedly. Often find also that there's no photographer at all covering the ring I'm in.

[thompson-ponies.com]

I am with you on this and have spent many shows disappointed when looking at poor shot after poor shot! My Dad even told one of the photographers that they just weren't taken at the time. They also don't know when to delete a blatant bad shot!! Very annoying!!

[Dipsy]

We purchased our own camera and its been one of our best buys to date!
We regularly show 3 horses so buying pics for them all would be so expensive. So glad we did as I agree that the quality of some of the shots is poor or sometimes the photographer did not even get one!

My profile pic on here is one we took with our camera at great Yorkshire show last year from the white rose grandstand !!

The camera has been an expensive purchase but think that it's more than paid for itself now!!!!

[bryn]

I am a keen amateur photographer and had some appalling experiences with one of these so called professionals in particular. Myself and a friend, also an amateur photographer, have been subjected to bullying and harassment at more than one event by the same company of 'Photographers' who seem to think they have total domination as to who can take photo's when THEY are the Official ones. Yes, we both have extremely good equipment, costing an arm and a leg, and no we don't sell our pictures despite 'their' insistance that we do. We aren't taking ALL their profits and the 'Bread and Butter' from their mouths, leaving them starving and paying exorbitant fees to shows etc etc. I take photographs because I love doing so. I also love horses and have owned and bred them for many years so the two combined and WHAMMO there I am out most show days 'doing my thing' and expecting no interference or jealous tactics from them who should mind their own business and concentrate on taking good shots rather than most of the muck they try to sell on to their captive audiences. No, I don't have the privilege of being in the ring to get the prime shots and angles, that is what they pay for, I find I get better from outside the ring. Lets face it....there are loads and loads of people setting up as 'Photographers' some are good but quite a lot aren't and think they're gonna' make a fortune. Its not taking the photograph, but 'how' you compose it and even more importantly 'What you do with it on the editing suite' Yes, I agree with the earlier poster on here, more people should hit the delete button more often than they do and I admit I am also guilty of not doing this on numerous occasions BUT I am photographing to please myself so not that critical. I am thrilled to bits if other people see them on my page and add comments or hit the 'like' button to me thats a fantastic bonus. Standing in the middle of a show-ring incessantly hitting the multi shot button would send me crazy but the pressure is on them to SELL - SELL - SELL. They haven't the time to set up shots therefore the angles are the same, the shots are the same just different colours and sizes of horses/ponies or whatever their subject is. They all must have incredibly short memories too - they weren't born professionals they started off as amateurs PITY they're so intolerant but in my experience I find most of it all boils down to jealousy.

[Philippa]

Bryn. You've taken a picture I'd like to buy. Been tring to get hold of you.

[honeypot]

I took my veteran to the last show we will probably ever do so was desperate to buy a nice pic at Equifest. Two classes over 2 days and perhaps 12 shots and not one a good one. There used to be a local photographer who could take 3 shots each one good you just had to pic your favourite.
I do not know if its because they want to cover every ring and give someone relatively inexperienced a flash camera and let them get on with it but if you do not buy they are not making money anyway.

[ikklecob]

My husband is semi Pro. In defense of the photographers they often have to cover several rings at once and end up just clicking in frustration to try and get a shot of all the competitors. O H has only done 1 show this year with me so I have been left having to decide if I buy Pro shots or not. I can't say that they have been brilliant but maybe I have some sympathy with them.

Also photographers don't often check the photos as they don't often have time but give them via a card to someone else to download this is where bad shots should be removed but are not.

[jeni17]

I didn't show my mare often but was nearly always disappointed with the pictures. I have spent many years taking pics of friends at shows. Recently my sister and I have started a website selling a few pics, mainly in the hope of making some money to put towards our photography. Got a rude message about a show we were at where we took some pics and put them on the website. Didn't put them on the site to sell, merely to be on the website, and only took them of people we knew, who we wouldn't sell to anyway! Madness!

If the pictures were better from the pros, people wouldn't look else where!

[moya]

Hi I am new to the forum but am a photographer at shows. We currently do a small number of yards and have done some dressage. We are always looking for ways to improve so would love to hear from you guys as to what you would like capturing. If you can give feedback on images you would like to buy and poses you would like to see that would be fab! If you want to critique any of our images please have a look at www.picture-portraits.com

Thanks!

[Jessica]

Sept 30, 2013 8:58:05 GMT moya said:

Hi I am new to the forum but am a photographer at shows. We currently do a small number of yards and have done some dressage. We are always looking for ways to improve so would love to hear from you guys as to what you would like capturing. If you can give feedback on images you would like to buy and poses you would like to see that would be fab! If you want to critique any of our images please have a look at www.picture-portraits.com

Thanks!

I think the best thing to do is learn a bit about conformation so when you are looking through the shutter you can think "god this angle is making it look long in the back" so you move and alter where you are to achieve the most flattering angle!

[Em5]

Sept 30, 2013 8:58:05 GMT moya said:

Hi I am new to the forum but am a photographer at shows. We currently do a small number of yards and have done some dressage. We are always looking for ways to improve so would love to hear from you guys as to what you would like capturing. If you can give feedback on images you would like to buy and poses you would like to see that would be fab! If you want to critique any of our images please have a look at www.picture-portraits.com

Thanks!

I think a very important consideration when taking photographs is the background, there is only so much you can photoshop. So an awareness of what is going on in the background of your photos is a must

[Em5]

Hi moya, I've just had a look through some of your pictures, if it was my website I would only display good photos, rather than every photo that had been taken. There are several photos where riders heads have been missed off or the camera angle isn't good. If I was wanting to promote a professional site I would ensure all my photos on it were of a very high standard.

[moya]

Thanks for the pointers. We have had a couple of shows recently where we have used new staff with various degrees of success. We aim to get our shots on the web within 12 hours of the event finishing so they are there the next day when people wake up. As a result we do flick through and try to remove images like the ones described but some can get through. Thanks for the advice though. Hopefully there were enough images on the site that you liked. We try to aim for a nice background of trees fields etc rather than crowds and horse boxes as we understand an uncluttered background is much better but it can be hard sometimes with where the judges line the competitors up but generally we do our best

[lilliella1]

Well my daughter was 2nd in the coloureds at hickstead derby meeting and got in to the international arena. How excited we're we and when the class was over and raced to see the pics. There were no less than 20 of the Humdinger ( lovely cob BTW) and........ Wait for it.................ONE of my daughter and it was awful!!!! How can a professional photographer do this!!!!

[honeypot]

He obviously was more interested in selling to a national mag where he would get a fee than the £20-60 he would have got off you. Horses magazines to not have staff photographers anymore so they rely on freelance so he probably thought unless you won that they would be more likely to write about the Humdinger and need a pick.
There has just been a huge discussion on Equifest Facebook about people using photographers pictures on Facebook, apparently when you buy the picture they do not automatically sell the copy write for private use. I think some of them have forgotten who the customer is, no one should be 'lifting' photos from photographers website without payment but if you have bought a picture in this day and age you should be able to share it on Facebook without being accused of being a thief.

[jeni17]

Honeypot, if you purchase a photo from a photographer, unless stated, the copyright still belongs to the person who took it. Very few people would sell you the copyright to a picture when you buy a print. So copying a print is still theft. Most photographers do sell digital copies of pictures.

Its unfortunately nothing to do with who the customer is!

[honeypot]

Some of the photographers will provide copyrights for private use when you buy the image, often the images are bought for use in adverts used in selling a horse or pony and the photographers are aware of this and will allow this if they are credited in the advert. It is perfectly possible to allow use of an image for private use at the point of sale and I think horse show organisers when they sell the 'rights' or pitch to a photo graphic company should specify in their terms and contract that this should be done and if they do not want to do this photographers should tell their customer at the point of sale so they have the opportunity to make an informed choice whether to purchase the image with or without restricted copyright.
I have paid for concessions at shows and festivals and I know the detail that contracts can go in to, even specifying the amount you can charge up to for certain goods, if you don't like it you don't get the concession.
My comment about who the customers is meaning that they are usually families with children often with relatives and friends that do not live near, in the old days before t'inernet you physically showed picture to friends and family, it is now normal practice to share images by e-mail and Facebook and has been for several years. At the moment as soon as you do this, unless the photographer has provided restricted copywrite anyone who does this is liable to be sued. Do we as customers deserve this and would show organisers really want this to happen?
I fully understand the anger when pictures are 'stolen' from the internet, although I do wonder if the average teenager would understand the concept when they can get so much off Youtube for free, but when you have bought and paid for an image the least you should be able to do with it is send it by e-mail which will involve scanning and copying, but for private use.

[gillwales]

Unless things have changed, there has never been a waver on entry forms allowing the professional photographers to take pictures of you or your horses/ and more importantly in these days, children. I know this is a twist on the OP's comments, but has anyone considered this? Where I work, with elderly people, nobody is allowed to photograph them without a release form being signed by the NOK.

I recall at the NPS champs when the photographer abandoned the class he was meant to be taking photos of to take pictures of a poor man who collapsed while showing and was obviously having a heart attack, why? did he think he would make money out of pictures of a man dying?

[honeypot]

On the entry form for the Norfolk Show I think there is a waiver to sign so that any images can be used by them for advertising

[gillwales]

ah well that is the other side of the country to me and one that I have not attended