Keeping childs legs in right position

[pollycrystal]

I have a new pony for my grand daughter, which at the moment can be a little spooky. My gd is not the bravest child, she is 8 but rides more like a 6 year old, as she can't always get to ride due to family circumstances. At the moment she is on the lead rein all the time, which is fine as she and the pony need to get to know one another a little better. My ( or her!) problem is that she perches forward with her legs back, and no amount of telling will make her sit any different. I fear it has now become a habit, it's probably that she is a bit scared of the new pony, but she is always nudging her with her heels which isn't helping.Someone has suggested riding without stirrups, but I 'm not sure she is brave enough for that. We don't want to keep going on at her, because we don't want to put her off completely, we want to keep it fun, but it's really annoying! And it looks awful! We are going to try for regular lessons but it can be difficult sometimes, she goes to Pony Club rallies once a fortnight which is great, but any other suggestions gratefully received.

[sarahp]

I'm sure there has been a long thread on this subject fairly recently, try a search?

[pollycrystal]

I know there was one about keeping the feet on the correct place in the stirrups, I will have a look, thanks

[Em5]

Tie the stirrups to the girth with a little bit of elastic this will prevent the legs slipping back and kicking the pony. Make sure the saddle isnt perching her and that it has a deep seat for her to sit in, flat show saddles aren't much help for children's positions. Also make sure the pony isn't leaning on her hands and making her tip forwards too.

I would recommend putting piny on lunge and riding without reins, I did this with my little girl the other day and worked a treat as she had to balance herself. Firstly did it holding on to front if saddle but hen fun things like one hand and no hands rising trot. Made a big difference

[jayandpodge]

Ditto the above, when I was a child my mum tied my stirrups to the girth. It worked a treat for me in helping me to keep my legs in the correct position.

[judyh]

If you develop a good seat her legs will be correct.. She needs to sit with her bottom on the pony. On the lunge with a blanket or saddle pad with a neck strap. Start her in walk and then a couple of strides in trot. You need the pony to totally listen to your voice and be obedient. Round the world , back to front and touch the pony's tail, flat on her back then sit up. Make it fun - Julie Tempelton's tiniest of jockeys love these on their top class ponies!! Anything to give her confidence- make it fun and the happier she is the quicker she will gain confidence. Don't even move the pony for the first session just play!!

[fanfarefan]

what about trying the good old fashioned exercises , like round the world , touching the ponies ears , lying back on the pony ( if the pony is ok to do that ) , left hand right toe etc , scissors ,,,, all to get her confidence in being in a different position other than sat to ride ,,, but definately riding without stirrups is a good one ,,, but also progress to these exercises whilst walking round on the LR

[pollycrystal]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I am feeling a bit down today as we have just been out for a ride along the beach, and the pony was looking at the tide coming in, only looking mind, and my grand daughter had a complete meltdown, she started grabbing the mane and crying, almost hyperventilating, in case the pony spooked. She is such a bag of nerves, I feel like crying myself, I've got this nice little pony who in all fairness is a bit spooky, but absolutely does nothing except jump a bit, and I now feel like I will have to sell her and get something brain dead! I haven't ever experienced such behaviour before, both my girls were brave, and I don't know how to deal with it.Sorry to be a misery lol, just feel like giving up today! Tell me to get a grip!

[fanfarefan]

maybe shes just one of those children who likes to be on the ground with her pony , and not on board ,,,,,nothing wrong with that ,,, maybe she could do a little bit of in hand showing ,,, my son , now almost 21 ,,, has done alittle riding , but has got all his experience from day to day looking after his pony ,,,, and shown many and varied in hand , and loves it ,,,, he may do some more riding one day , but gets just as much enjoyment out of the showing , and work that come with that

[lme]

May 4, 2015 18:24:07 GMT fanfarefan said:

maybe shes just one of those children who likes to be on the ground with her pony , and not on board ,,,,,nothing wrong with that ,,, maybe she could do a little bit of in hand showing ,,, my son , now almost 21 ,,, has done alittle riding , but has got all his experience from day to day looking after his pony ,,,, and shown many and varied in hand , and loves it ,,,, he may do some more riding one day , but gets just as much enjoyment out of the showing , and work that come with that

a good suggestion - my GD is a similar age - like you she gets minimum riding due to circumstances - she love showing and has done really well on LR and with pony on the ground in hand and novelty classes, her pony can be a litle mick taker and its taken a while for them to gel and for him to understand what is required - she came off the lea rein last year and loves hacking out on him - hes a little gem on the road and rarely mis behaves- he enjoys it and looks to go further - hes not as willing in the field or achool and this has meant she hasn't been able to show him asI know if we put them into a show ring situation he will take the p as it stands and there no point in setting them both up for a fall and knocking her confidence - shes got agood seat and good hands so we don't worry too much there - while they are happy hacking then I'm happy - we may get some young handler classes and fun shows in - she enjoys those just as much so she would get best of both until ready to do ridden - but ultimately it will be up to her I would rather she enjoys her pony than start to dread and lose interest, you can't force things - her brother can take it or leave it - thats just how it is.

If your GD is that nervous then I would take a step back and maybe not take her out into situations where she does not feel in contol or confident, let her learn to trust her pony even if it is from the ground initially and enjoy him the rest will come, maybe a few lessons to help boost her confidence on a less forward going pony in the meantime.

[judyh]

If you read my post I said don't even move the pony! The last thing I would do is take a spooky pony and nervous child near the sea or anywhere it may spook. You need to take it from the start and build trust.

[sageandonionagain]

Often a little spook looks nothing to the spectator but it is blimming scary to the rider and if the rider is a little unbalanced 6 year old, could be terrifying. Do you have your pony schooled and do you lunge him and train him from the ground? If yoru pony is not schooled and balanced, then his little rider will never be.

Even as an adult, if you are riding an unbalanced pony, your position goes out the window and it can take huge core stability to sit centrally, you certainly can't look pretty.

judyh is right and I don't agree with attaching stirrups to girth, the leg position comes last when the rest is in balance. First step is pony. I suggest an experienced child/pony friendly instructor who you feel you can trust and I also suggest you leave her to it and go make a cup of tea. Maybe also take her to a riding school and let her have lessons on fun ponies.

[pollycrystal]

Thanks everyone, I should just say that my house is practically on the beach, and this is where we do most of our riding out. The child and pony have been out on the beach many times before with no problem, I think we were both having an off day that day, we did go along the road afterwards and they were fine, although I don't like the road, the pony is fine with traffic.But I will take on board all your kind advice, and let you know how we get on.

[sbloom]

Having the right saddle, and it being in correct balance, can make a world of difference. Typical ultra close contact showing saddles tend to sit low at the back which sends the child's weight backwards and their legs forwards, and they end up tipping forwards. YOu could try balancing the saddle with some kind of rear riser and if that doesn't help then consider a more supportive saddle with a deeper seat and/or bigger or more appropriately placed blocks eg GP flap rather than showing so she can ride with short stirrups and not be over the knee roll.

[pollycrystal]

I agree with you about the saddle, I certainly don't think that the Fylde Hayden saddle I have does her any favours at all. However, it is very difficult where I live to get a saddle fitter with a selection of second hand small pony saddles, as I have said to you before, sbloom. Either I go somewhere and be fitted for and buy a new one, which tbh I can't justify the cost to my husband, or I keep looking on the internet for a second hand, hoping I will be lucky and it will fit, of course , more often than not it doesn't, then I have wasted my money until I can sell it again. So if anyone knows of somewhere I can get fitted for a second hand saddle, in the North West, I would appreciate it, thanks

[judyh]

Fylde!!

[Karen, garrettponies]

I understand where you are coming from totally. My daughter, now 8, had a couple of nasty falls a couple of years ago and it frightened her witless and she has only just started riding again. I had issues with her riding on her Fylde Saddle as her legs would be forward or back or even a mixture of both! The saddle didn't help get the seat position. Her being tense didn't help either as when tense they naturally stiffen and tip forward, feet back, nudge pony, pony moves and its a vicious circle when they are nervous.

I know its a nightmare finding a saddle for little ponies but I would try and find something that will help her feel more secure. My daughter has just started going for lessons again, first lesson she was tense for a few minutes but then started to relax as she realised pony was ok. By the end of the hour she was quite happily trotting round with a big smile. Second lesson, she attempted canter and succeeded!! I didn't think I'd see the day when she did as she was that nervous before. BUT she was riding on a GP saddle, she felt there was more to ride in, her seat position was good and her legs never went a-wandering like they did before. She felt safe.

You could try a Samantha? They have a bit of knee roll. Good luck. XX

[sbloom]

Do you think the saddle could be down at the back? That's the cheapest fix, using a little rear riser, or even starting with concertina-ed fybagee etc, make it into a wedge that is higher at the back and a single thickness under the seat. I don't mind looking at photos to advise if you have any - photos of the child on the pony would help me decide on whether that might work, naked photos of the pony side on, feet included, plus one of the back of the wither would help to know what might fit if you need to look elsewhere.

[lucynlizzysmum]

Have you thought about the Thorowgood T4 Pony Club saddle? They were developed with children in mind. We had one for Lizzy, and it certainly helped, because it has a suede seat it is not slidy. Just a thought for you. Think Todds maybe do them!

[pollycrystal]

Thank you Louise, I may look at the synthetic ones, can you alter the width on the thorowgood ones? I definitely think the saddle will make a difference. I put my daughter on her today, but she did look too big,despite being only about 5' 2''and slim, the pony is so small (and I think delicate looking), I worried that she is too heavy. Which adult is small enough to school these little ponies, or am I being too cautious in thinking a Section A is incapable of carrying an adult? I may take my grand daughter to the local riding school and let her have a lesson on one of theirs, it might just restore her confidence.

[lucynlizzysmum]

A friend who breeds A's oce told me that they can carry a stone for each hand, not that I am advocating that LOL. A well balanced, lightweight adult rider is fine to school an A I would have said, but you know your pony. I would really advocate taking your granddaughter to the local riding school - it's amazing how much fun they have with peers and you don't have to worry about her!!

[sjw87]

Depending on where you are in the north west, is saddles direct accessible for you? No idea how much they cater for 'littlies' but could be worthwhile to try a few styles and makes of saddles.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using proboards

[pollycrystal]

Thanks, I was going to get one from there, but at the mo they don't have anything suitable. I am in touch with them though, so hopefully something will come in soon.

[catkin]

I cannot disagree with many of the comments above, but so long as the saddle actually fits the pony, I wouldn't be so concerned about that at the moment. I would concentrate almost entirely on safety and confidence. So ride only in very controlled circumstances. Pick an environment, however tiny that feels safe the child. I would be interested to know if she is different when with her friends at PC? Children (and ponies) do take confidence from one another. Rather than taking the stirrups away (if this frightens the child) try dropping them a couple of holes so she has to reach for them and thereby deepen the seat and drop the leg. You could also try a 'handle' attached from D ring to D ring (and old bootlaced will do) to help with balance and the feeling of security for a while. A neck strap may well encourage the child to tip forward further. And yes, I thoroughly endorse allowing the child just to spend time (very supervised and controlled) with the pony so that she feels generally confident around the pony. very best of luck!

[roxy93]

i don't know about any one else, but my little sister we purchased a pony pad and she learnt to ride in this, when she could ride we then put the ponies show saddle on and her seat and position was great as in the pad as she had to really ride and not just sit there, worked wonders if you can get one i would recommend one for at home. Or if i can find it i can sell it

[sjw87]

May 8, 2015 12:47:31 GMT catkin said:

I cannot disagree with many of the comments above, but so long as the saddle actually fits the pony, I wouldn't be so concerned about that at the moment. I would concentrate almost entirely on safety and confidence.

The point being made regarding saddles is that a saddle that provides more support for a child than a show saddle is likely to improve both safety and confidence.

I have jumped xc fences in show saddles and felt entirely safe yet got on a green youngster for someone last year in a hayden saddle and had so little support that it really was unnerving when the pony spooked! I am more than used to riding youngsters so can only imagine how unsafe a child would feel in that situation.

If the child feels safer as a result of having a saddle that offers support (after all, at such a young age she is unlikely to have much core strength), her confidence will follow.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using proboards

[catkin]

Yes, to be clear, as I said before, I cannot disagree that a more suitable saddle will definitely help, but at the moment, the priority seems to be the child's confidence and a lot can be achieved in any saddle.

[pollycrystal]

She does enjoy Pony Club and has a go at most things, she has a couple of little friends, but it seems that most of the other children her age are so much better than her and are off the lead rein, some even much younger, that she gets embarrassed and a bit disheartened. We give her lots of reassurance, and occasionally she does win something at the gymkhana, even if it's just prettiest mare (lol) which is great.
Anyway will persevere with the pony and try all your suggestions, many thanks

[Em5]

Pollycrystal I all children develop their skills in everything in life at different rates. My youngest is very much a fair weather rider and doesn't care too much over winter, who can blame her. The time I have seen the most improvement in her riding is at pony club camp, 5 days of tuition and fun and she's a different rider by the end if it.

My eldest daughter who is 10 rides with some if the you get ones at camp, and yes she does sometimes feel embarrassed but those you get riders in her group are fantastic I little riders and they do as much as the older groups but my daughter is nervous jumping and doesn't like to be jumping high 60cm is high enough for her. So I remind her that as Lin as she's having fun it doesn't matter what everyone else can or can't do xx

[orangetails]

As a sometimes-nervous rider myself, I really feel for your little one. Sometime there is no rhyme or reason to nerves, but your instincts take over and go into protective mode - foetal crouch, body forward, legs back. Not helpful when riding! But it is a very primitive reaction, and is something that even as an adult *knowing* it's not helpful can take a lot of conscious effort to over-ride. And on a spooky pony as well, so much worse, because you see everything around you as a potential for spooks that you 'might' not be able to sit.

I have lost my confidence for various reasons - mostly nothing to do with horses (ie no bad fall, injury etc) - the worst was after my mum died, the second after I had my own daughter (now 2, and loving riding!!) I simply can't explain what went on in my brain both times, but it was like a switch flicked and I had a super-heightened sense of self-preservation, when I got back on after my mum died I literally froze, had a proper panic attack - that was just at the halt!

Having a supportive saddle does help (I use a castle seat saver on mine with leather seats as it is a bit grippy and helps me feel a bit more 'into' them) but unless there's something very rational behind your GD's nerves that you can eliminate easily (eg she doesn't like riding behind a certain horse, or some other precise situation that you can avoid) confidence is something that just take time and understanding to build. It is not always rational. If you've never been nervous, it can be VERY hard to understand a rider who is not confident - but just as I am going to have to be careful not to put my own nerves onto my daughter (who is currently utterly fearless about anything to do with ponies and has absolutely no sense of danger - so it is up to me to keep her safe without instilling irrational fear) you now have to not berate your GD for not having the same confidence you or your daughters were blessed with.

I've recently had a very nervous 10yo share my sec A for the past year. It's been a nightmare. Time and time again I have asked the mum, does the kid actually WANT to ride. I think not. She is FAR happier sweeping the yard than spending ANY time with the pony. And yet spending time with the pony would have enabled her to have a better relationship, and therefore feel safer and more able to have fun when riding. It is a partnership after all. Thankfully, the kid is now too tall, and my pony has gone on loan until my own daughter is big enough for her. There is nothing more disheartening than trying to make things fun for a child when they're so nervous and really don't want to be doing it. Especially as on my yard there are no other young riders. For me, the best thing I could do to regain my confidence was totally take the pressure off - stop riding for a bit, or just do very safe easy things. When I started to *want* to do more, I knew I was feeling more confident. If you're nervous AND you don't want to do something, it's ten times worse! In the case of my sharer, the mum badly wanted them to have a mother-daughter share pony of their own, and this was the stepping stone - but it was the mum who was the driving force, not the child.

I would say do what you can to make it fun. Has she got any friends (riders or otherwise) who can come and do pony stuff with her? perhaps share some lead rein rides - even if non riders, if the pony is essentially safe enough. Kids often seem more gung-ho around other kids, and it will take the pressure off and be more fun if she is the most knowledgeable/experienced and can share what she knows with her friends, and they can have a laugh and a bit of fun together. Gymkhanas/games often get kids caught up in the moment and less worried about riding because they are excited/competitive about the games.

Or there is nothing wrong in accepting this is not the right pony for this child at the moment. Far better to have her relaxed and having fun and progressing on something 'brain dead', than to continue to be so scared she is practically hyperventilating - that can't be fun for any of you.

With my toddler when her legs slip back (through inattention!) I say 'toes towards mummy', which works well - but she is only 2!