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Post by dsmum on Jun 11, 2009 17:51:45 GMT
We are doing the circuit of HOYS qualifiers but have to book lots of shows in advance as the closing date is so early. If we qualify we dont need to go to other qualifiers but have already paid the entry fee - normally about £50 a show with medical aid etc. Is it beyond the wit of man to schedule the county show closing date entries so people dont have to pay hundreds of pounds in advance for shows they wont go to....or perhaps a partial refund system could be considered.........hope this makes sense!
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Post by welsha on Jun 11, 2009 19:10:50 GMT
Problem is I suppose that most are at large county shows and the catalogue will have to be prepared and sent for printing well in advance.
Ive got a differant problem in that I have entered one in a load of HOYS quals and it is now unable to compete. Vet will give me a vets cert to say it cant go but hardly any will refund anything even with a vets cert. Add on stabling costs etc and Ive lost a fortune.
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Post by nativeponies on Jun 11, 2009 19:16:23 GMT
we would enter alot more if the closing dates werent so early..im a poor single mum...boo hoo!! and cant afford all in one go.
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Post by sarah00000 on Jun 11, 2009 19:18:16 GMT
Yes, I agree, thats a real bummer. I am sure its the only way these shows can cover their costs, but its not much fun for the "grass roots" showing people, who dont have "unlimited" funds!
I do think, if there is a vets certificate, they should refund, but lots of dressage shows dont either now, nor will they allow substitutions of any sort.........
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Post by proudwilliam on Jun 11, 2009 20:35:22 GMT
So why does the racing industry have no problems with entries they enter for races days in advance and the races manage to print the programme without too much bother. Also when the foot and mouth epidemic was around shows had shorter closing dates. I think there would be more entries
IF there was say a 2/3 week window
In the Nag and Dog today there was an article about poor entries , It is time a show took the lead and tested a shorter entry period.!!!!
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Post by nativeponies on Jun 11, 2009 20:49:14 GMT
yes i saw that in h&H today! is a shame, but i for one simply cant stretch to pay all entries out at beginning of season...sure alot of people are in the same boat..has cost me a good few grand already!!
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Post by Show Sec on Jun 11, 2009 23:02:58 GMT
Probably going to get shot down in flames but here goes....We close our entries approx 4 weeks before show date.... That gives us just 4 weeks to process over 1000 entries, check all entries are eligible for the classes they have entered, chase up people who haven't sent enough entry fees, haven't entered ponies name on entry form, forgot to put class numbers on entry form, bounced cheques....etc etc (Oh yes and 2 weeks after closing date we still get entries daily!)
I fully appreciate what you are saying about REALLY early closing dates but being on the other side of the fence (so to speak!!) I can understand why shows need to do this.
Sorry!
Crawls back under her stone!!!
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Post by dsmum on Jun 12, 2009 6:15:59 GMT
4 weeks before a show is absolutely fine but some of the shows are 3 months ahead which means you have to book now.....eg Ponies UK closes this weeks, class entry, day parking for lorry and first aid makes one class £65. Stabling for one is around £100...you can get a refund for stablling 3 weeks before show but not the entry. I may not even go if we qualify before but it is madness...if you times this by 10 shows a season....
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Post by nativeponies on Jun 12, 2009 6:42:23 GMT
yeah and we've 3 ponies to enter and dont go anywhere for one class!! looks like we are missing puk this year, only wanted to do the hoys whp class, but with all the registrations etc on top i cant get this done before next pay day!! its crap but thats life i guess...so anyone know of a hoys whp not a million miles away with entries open after this week please let me know...not a million miles away from derbyshire!! ta x
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Post by thecremellosociety on Jun 12, 2009 7:01:09 GMT
I dont feel derbys closing date excessive closed 15th May show 28th June, considering the amount of chasing and checking i have had to do for people not being appropriatly registered i dont think its alot of time (6 weeks pre show). Some are far more than tha somewhere stated 10 - 12 weeks i think it may have been horse and hound, considering the amount trying to get in late and being refused, i wouldnt like to leave it any closer, We have reasonable entry fees works ut at £26 for a hoys qualifier, we dont do any refunds anymore even with a vets certificate, as once numbers have gone out you have admittance to the show so you can still use that to enter the show.
If you can gurantee that everyone of my 816 entries didnt need pre show checking and everyone had done everything correctly then yes could close later but with over 100 having come back as not reg or need chasing and still have some left to chase then i think 6 weeks is fine to close pre show.
Maybe ok for a show with a team of office workers, but ours is all done here by me, from start to finish, The catalogue has gone to print with a note attached stating some exhibits may still be withdrawn due to registration quieries if not sorted very soon and if they turn up at the ring to be judged and havent sorted it they will not be allowed admittance ( amazing what pink highlighter can do)
All this not to mention the bounced cheques, last batch going in tommrrow morning any returns from that not clearing will also be withdrawn.
So its not as easy as you may think !
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Post by welshie2 on Jun 12, 2009 7:22:04 GMT
I totally disagree i run the Hambleton Show which some of you know it is a large 1 day show i do all entries my self, and work full time, and i still take entries upto a week before the show, and i still manage to get all entries checked catalouges printed etc, i think in this day and age with so many shows to chose from and people not having alot of money to show then shows have to be abit more accommodating dont moan if you dont have any entries for your classes if you close entries early and you wont take late entries, but i will still not take entries on the day as i do not have anybody who knows what they are doing to help other wise i would ( for classes that i can) at the end of the day we run the Hambleton show for charity so the more money we make the better, obviously the Yorkshire and other large Shows cannot take entries so close to the show but there is a lot of shows out there that can but dont
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Post by nativeponies on Jun 12, 2009 7:42:01 GMT
the northern horse show are managing to take entries on the day emmajane, infact postal entries close on tueday, less than 2weeks before the show!!! so it cant be that hard surely..and they do the hoys and olympia classes...
also, i must say i'd be inclined to not take cheques and ask for postal orders instead, less messing about and you know the money is there then!! i dont know why people bother to send cheques in advance if they are going to bounce??
i always use postal orders for pre entries. That way i know when all my direct debits etc go out, or im out on the razz im not spending show entries!!!
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Post by chloesmum on Jun 12, 2009 8:06:20 GMT
I wrote on this subject last year as like welsha we had entered lots of shows and then were unable to compete. NPS were brilliant and refunded with a vets certificate but the rest including HOYS is just down to bad luck.
My suggestion was why can't we do what the show jumping people are allowed to do at some county shows? We should enter but confirm the horses details nearer the time (4 weeks seems fair if that is what a catalogue needs to print). When you have to enter 3 months in advance particularly with a novice you don't know if it will be going well enough for open classes - I think being able to substitute would be a great idea, again particularly if you get a new horse in the season and have missed all the entries. Show would still get the entry money but competitor gets a bit of flexability.
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jun 12, 2009 8:18:37 GMT
Refund entry fees for those qualified elsewhere after the closing date who will therefore not be able to compete?
This wouldn't apply to many and would be a great goodwill gesture.
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Post by thecremellosociety on Jun 12, 2009 8:57:16 GMT
I go by what its decided by our commitee and as a county show a closing date is a closing date and for the people that get theirs in on time its not fair to take late entries in my opnion, we have a nice amount across all classes and sections and quite happy with that as is my commitee, many big shows wont change your entries or refund.
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Post by nativeponies on Jun 12, 2009 9:01:10 GMT
not too bothered about a refund...just would like longer at some shows to get entries in, have seen pretty poor entries at a few shows myself this year...maybe people like me who are missing from the numbers ay?  |
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Post by welshie2 on Jun 12, 2009 10:32:43 GMT
In 10 years as Hambleton Secretary with nearly 900-1000 horse entries each year i have had about max 3 cheques bounced each year, (not a lot) and yes i do like to get all entries into the catalogue but apart from the Welsh from the affiliated societies we register with none of the others HAVE to be catalogued but do have to be checked all it takes is i email all entries most societies get back to me within 2/3 days any late entries i either email or give them a call and they will check them over the phone for me so again not a major issue anything in the catalogue who turns out not to be eligable just cannot enter simple as, and to be fair each year i have about again maximum 50 entries to chace up out of 900-1000 horse so again dont think it is alot, yes it is hard work and stressful at times doing this job i am not saying it is easy but i think you get out of it what you put in.
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Post by nativeponies on Jun 12, 2009 10:46:15 GMT
well done welshie2...goes to show it can be done as we as competitors would be eternallt grateful for more shows to be like yours xx keep up the good work x
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Jun 12, 2009 11:44:14 GMT
Each Show is different. The organisation of how they produce their catalogue and have to layout their rings and it may be the outside influences that control when closing dates are. I fully agree that I hate having to decide 3 months before an event as to what I will take where and as a result will be losing my RHS entry, but please don't take it out on the secretaries - each one is different. I think what would be a good idea would be to have an association of show secretaries and different ideas could be pitched in - just a thought!
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Post by nativeponies on Jun 12, 2009 11:59:35 GMT
not getting at secretarys just putting my point across...local was sooo much easier!!! there must be a way round early closing dates though?
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Post by bowditchblobs on Jun 12, 2009 14:23:56 GMT
May be in this day and age county shows could start to take enteries on the day . I must add i have only been out a few times but i havent noticed enteries being down here? East of England coming up it will be interesting to see how enteries are.
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Post by nativeponies on Jun 12, 2009 14:40:31 GMT
we entered solihull hoys on the day!! and as said earlier northern horse are taking them on the day..so dont see why others cant, had to tell child cant do puk hoys class this morning she is gutted. was the last of only 3 qualifiers for us this season x
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Post by victoria (highhill) on Jun 12, 2009 17:40:51 GMT
I agree with proudwilliam - racehorses are entered 5 days before race day and then declared the day before (some races 48 hours before) and race cards are produced overnight and delivered to the racecourses. Now I know people will say there are less horses entered on one race day than a show with 900 horses entered but If Weatherbys can do it in 24 hours i cant see how some shows need to close 12 weeks before show day. (and I have run shows so I do know the work involved!).
Also I agree that if you enter a class you are then no longer eligible to compete in you surely should have a refund. After all you cant take part !
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Post by welshie2 on Jun 12, 2009 19:13:59 GMT
Highhill regarding getting a refund if you are not eligable it is down to all competitors to read the rules of the societies BEFORE you enter any classes at any show it is not down to secretaries to do all the ringing and chacing on behalf of competitors to make sure you can enter.
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Post by victoria (highhill) on Jun 12, 2009 19:21:05 GMT
I am not suggesting it is down to the secretary to chase people to see if they are eligible. Maybe I didnt word it very well - I meant that if after entering you find you are no longer eligible to compete you should be able to obtain a refund - nothing to do with entries closing early to allow for secretarys checks.
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Post by welshie2 on Jun 12, 2009 20:22:01 GMT
Sorry still not getting what you mean, as far as i can see the only time you will not be eligable to compete is if you are not registered with correct societies before the show, sorry if i am missing something in you post.
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Post by thecremellosociety on Jun 12, 2009 20:33:43 GMT
Highhill regarding getting a refund if you are not eligable it is down to all competitors to read the rules of the societies BEFORE you enter any classes at any show it is not down to secretaries to do all the ringing and chacing on behalf of competitors to make sure you can enter. Yes we wrote this into our schedule this year, made wording very clear and some still got it wrong and wont be having a refund ! |
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Post by thecremellosociety on Jun 12, 2009 20:35:36 GMT
as far as i am aware if you have already qualified you still can compete if you wish, though not take qual, or if you de novice yourself would be only way you wouldnt be eligible unless you werent registered, or had failed a payment to a said society or failed a height certificate maybe ?
In the case of de novicing or overheight i would happily move you to the next class up if within time and hadnt sent the catalogue as your entry would be in in time just need changing but not 2 weeks before a show i wouldnt !
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Post by victoria (highhill) on Jun 12, 2009 21:38:17 GMT
Refund entry fees for those qualified elsewhere after the closing date who will therefore not be able to compete? This wouldn't apply to many and would be a great goodwill gesture. sarahp - put it so much better! Surely after you have qualified for Olympia you cant still enter can you |
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Post by Show Sec on Jun 12, 2009 22:42:34 GMT
Highhill.... Perhaps there's more than 4 people working on entries.  Nativeponies....Have you ever been involved in the running of a County show? Sorry to get stroppey but until you've been involved in the running of a big show, I don't think you can appreciate what's involved. Crawls back under her stone again!!!! |
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