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Post by coloured on Jun 27, 2009 19:33:48 GMT
What is wrong with people? Why do people who have never been within 100 yards of something that has qualified for HOYS feel that they are able to advertise their own horses as being of HOYS standard when they are blatantly nothing of the sort. Indeed, have not even made it into the ring at a local show best turned out - let alone a "proper" class.
Could we not sue them under the trade description act?
And then have pictures of said beast which show it off as being nothing like a show horse at all either in its looks or way of going.
If you have a bog standard riding club type horse (for which there is an extremely good market) then please, just sell the d**n thing as a riding club horse and stop trying to pretend it is something else. It is better for everyone in the long run and wastes a lot less time for both you and your potential purchasers. It has the added advantage that you don't come across as a total idiot as well.
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Post by bowditchblobs on Jun 27, 2009 19:57:13 GMT
It bugs me too coloured, you have to chuckle at some of them, and the prices- god their hoping.
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Post by brindlerainbow on Jun 28, 2009 9:44:32 GMT
Saw a 12.2hh advertised the other day to make a top class LR..........................er it's height!!!!!!!
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Post by ladybird on Jun 28, 2009 10:19:08 GMT
thank goodness i only do shetlands, the rest is far too complicated for me, although of course all of mine definately ARE hoys standard lol!
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Post by yum yum on Jun 28, 2009 13:36:48 GMT
Yes I agree totally. But dont you think that whether a horse/pony is a HOYS prospect depends very much on who is riding/ leading or coming in to the ring to groom it. But then thats another subject which has been debated many times!! .............. There are still a lot of people out there who will go and look at a sub standard horse/pony because it is advertised as HOYS potential and buy it because they genuinely believe the rubbish the sellers are telling them.
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Post by HOYS POT on Jun 28, 2009 13:47:02 GMT
ladybird im sure they are too  ..there are also the cracking ponies out there that people dont know how special they are!! theyre the best sellers!!  |
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Post by poniesrus on Jun 29, 2009 7:34:38 GMT
Totally agree ....... the other thing that pee's me off is people who don't want to spend the money to get colts gelded, so instead they advertise them as 'stallion potential' !!!
Why can they not just be honest and say 'we couldn't afford to geld it, so selling it as a colt and you'll have to geld it yourselves' ..... it is the one thing that really bugs me with horse adverts. I think 90% of people must consider their colts 'stallion worthy' when they simply aren't !!!!
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Post by ladybird on Jun 29, 2009 7:47:14 GMT
whoa poniesrus, now your talking!!! This is a subject very close to my heart as until recently we have always bought/rescued colts, handled them, had them gelded and then found a home for them as and when the time was right. The are some breeders who we NEVER see advertising colts, where do they go i wonder? We have had four colts gelded this year, inexpensive, very quick for the ponies and possible i would go so far as to say a life saving event for some of them. Most vets would be prepared to spread the cost as well.
Even if a pony/horse is stallion worthy, how m any people have the facilities to keep a stallion happy and contented, or have the space and knowledge to receive visiting mares? The list goes on and on and on.
OMG its monday morning and im on my soap box but it is a subject very close to my heart, but then perhaps the issue here once again is 'why breed, or breed so many in the first place...?'
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Post by poniesrus on Jun 29, 2009 9:38:51 GMT
Our two shetlands came from Kellas Stud up here in Scotland. Beth (owner of Kellas Stud) doesn't sell ANY colts ..... they are all gelded before she sells them and normally she keeps them until they are 3 anyway. However she has sold a few geldings younger than that due to her husband being poorly.
But that, to me, is responsible breeding .... she's not palming off shetland colt foals through and auction ring for a tenner, she's perfectly happy keeping them and running them on as geldings until the right buyer comes along. our own palomino gelding was 5 years old when we bought him from her .... he's THE most super pony !
But it really hisses me off when I go read adverts that give the ''super stallion potential'' and you look at it and think ''where, what horse are you talking about, cos it sure as sugar ain't that one'' !!!! Or, the 'could not care less' breeders who constantly throw their colts in the auction ring and flog them for a tenner ......... grrrrrrrrrrrr, seriously pee's me off !!!!
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Post by morwenstowstud on Jun 29, 2009 12:51:15 GMT
W've been lucky enough to only breed fillies so far, so we haven't had the issue of colts, but I would be reluctant to geld a colt as a baby for a couple of reasons. I know of a couple of stallions that as babies weren't wonderful, but as adults have flourished and turned into stunners. One is now winning regularly and belongs to a friend of mine. Another reason is that a pony may not be a wonderful example of it's particular breed, but may be very useful for breeding other types. My own stallion is not a wonderful Welsh as he's very light, but his conformation is all good and he will hopefully breed a very nice riding pony type from the right mares. We know he throws correct foals as we've had foals from him. They were also a little light boned for welsh, but they were of good conformation. If he had been judged purely on his own breed type he would have been gelded, but ust because he's not a wonderful example of a welsh, doesn't mean he can't be used to breed another type. We will have (hopefully), his first part bred foal due next year so we will see. I do however agree that something with obviously bad conformation should be gelded.
Regarding the amount of 'potential HOYS' prospects, well yes I agree that the nearest some will ever get to HOYS is by wearing a souvenir rug, but maybe those selling are just blind to what they have (or don't have), and really do believe it could get to HOYS. Some people just cannot see the wood for the trees.
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Post by haffy on Jun 29, 2009 21:06:57 GMT
here's one to make you all laugh
148cm Registered Haflinger mare
potential hoys m&m ridden/whp winner
i don't think so ;D
then you get the cluless people who buy a ponyclub pony advertised as a top class hoys sp then tell every person they see that it's hoys quality
try asking a few people what hoys even stands for- believe me, more people than you'd think don't actually know
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Post by bowditchblobs on Jun 29, 2009 22:33:51 GMT
Pmsl i saw that ad and snorted a whole cup of tea up my nose laughing!!!
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Post by eskvalleystud on Jun 30, 2009 7:16:46 GMT
those advetised as HOYS potential when not conformationally or in type for what its being advertised would sell better advertised as a non HOYS potential, not everyone dreams of HOYS! and there is a big market out there with all types of riders with different interests
we have gelded all our homebreds to sell, would rather have them out doing lots of different jobs than be a stallion, especially as it takes something extra special to stay as a stallion, we haave also advetised as good show prospect but have not put HOYS potential as some although lovely for county level would not get to HOYS, I do have a few I beleive could, one a medal winner and one I feel has confirmation and hopefully ability to go far, however at the end of the day too it depends on the new owners/loaners ability to produce a pony to HOYS level, its not just the ponies ability to go far but its rider/trainers ability
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Post by ffynnoncadno on Jun 30, 2009 7:56:14 GMT
I sell my yongsters, horses for what they are and not over price them I never say HOYS potential,as when it comes to showing sometimes I'm no expert like some judges,I must admit I do have a 3 year old colt advertised for sale,he's easy to handle,an Irish draught with a rare bloodline and have been told by numerous qualified and unqualified and knowledgeable people that he's a very good sort and type and has an ability for jumping to die for,but if I don't sell him then I'll take him for grading myself and run him on or maybe find someone to compete him for me.
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Post by colourful on Jun 30, 2009 18:43:42 GMT
The " HOYS Potential" phrase is probably the most abused piece of " poetic licence" in the equine showing world! then you see the pics or dvd of the animal - please do me a favour  If I was out to buy something with " HOYS Potential" it should at least have been placed in a HOYS qualifier at the very least. My personal hate is also the heights of animals that are either way over or way under, or youngstock that has no chance of making the required height - grrrrrrrrrr. We went to look at a coloured 3 year old to make 15: 2hh - it was 13hh max - what a waste of all our time. |
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Post by pencaedu on Jun 30, 2009 19:39:19 GMT
I really wish there was some way you could tag an advert that the vendor is a timewaster - my daughter & a friend trawled the country (Cornwall to Liverpool one weekend, Hampshire the next, Norfolk the following weekend - all in a lorry, so they could take any suitable animal home) looking for a pony. Supposed 'top class' ponies with splints, capped hocks, ewe necks - and then the vendors have the cheek to put re-advertised due to timewasters. What about the diesel money & time they wasted. Also - why show pictures of an animal in show ring condition when you know that the animal looks like a hat-rack under its rug? They bought that one on the spot out of sheer pity! (and it had been to HOYS & placed PUK & Royal London)
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Jul 2, 2009 6:16:05 GMT
Colourful - what if you are looking for an unbroken youngster to make a HOYS ridden in time then?
I do agree that there is plenty of misdescription out there, but some breeders do have the eye to tell if their youngstock could go far - given suitable buyers of course!
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Post by eskvalleystud on Jul 2, 2009 8:02:05 GMT
I do agree Sarahp, you will find the genuine breeder to probably be over critical too, so wouldn't use this as a description unless they believe so, again given suitable buyers
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Post by helle on Jul 2, 2009 10:19:13 GMT
I completely agree with Sarahp and Eskvallystud. Our pony was advertised as RIHS/ HOYS contender. And she is - unfortunately not with us - at least for the next few years! When my daughter grows into her a bit more- who knows- at the end of the day we bought her because we fell in love with her, not because of what she MIGHT acheive. (we actually went to the producers yard who is a friend of ours, not to buy her, but to try her for size so we knew what size we should look for!)
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Post by eskvalleystud on Jul 2, 2009 12:42:11 GMT
I also think there is a welfare issue attached to those advertising as hoys prospects when they are clearly not, for those who are not knowledgable enough to really know if quality for HOYS, what happens when their said new HOYS prospect may not even been standard to win local shows, does said pony or horse then get cared for as much since owners dreams have been dashed or do they then sell on to get rid of basically as no use to them??! I do agree, buy because you love them, I have a p.bred Arab mare now 21, who is not and never would have been a HOYS prospect but she did me proud at county level and I enjoyed her for the ability she had to do anything not just showing
modified as can't spell!!!
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Post by colourful on Jul 2, 2009 13:12:30 GMT
Colourful - what if you are looking for an unbroken youngster to make a HOYS ridden in time then? I do agree that there is plenty of misdescription out there, but some breeders do have the eye to tell if their youngstock could go far - given suitable buyers of course! Regardless of what you buy a youngster for you are always taking a gamble - whether its to hopefully get to HOYS or to make a safe ridden pony for hacking - the gamble is the same. From a personal point of view I would still expect a ridden animal to have been well placed in qualifiers - and expect to pay the price for it as well.  but other people have different criteria when choosing a horse - but I still maintain the phrase is abused. ;D |
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jul 2, 2009 16:10:14 GMT
Yes of course you are - it could break a leg in the field or something - but that applies when buying any horse, not just youngsters. An experienced breeder should be able to assess conformation, movement, temperament and breed type well enough to claim correctly that it has the potential to be good enough to go to HOYS in the future if properly produced and ridden. I knew my boy was special the minute I first set eyes on him the day he was born, and have a pretty good idea where I should aim all I breed. And I might add there are some out there who could well be good enough to go to HOYS if their owners were interested, but they'd rather do other things with them!
Even with the same aim of riding at HOYS, buyers look for different things - some want a store to grow on and break themselves in due course, some want one just broken to school on, and some like yourself want a made pony already getting results. They will of course have to expect to pay accordingly, as you say!
I don't think I argued with your point that the term is abused, just with your opinion that it should not be used for any not already getting results in HOYS qualifiers.
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Post by colourful on Jul 2, 2009 16:49:42 GMT
My opinion is purely a personal one - we are all different in what we look for and expect - other opinions are available ;D I was talking from a ridden point of view as per the original poster - as they referred to riding club horses, perhaps I incorrectly assumed they were referring to ridden horses  |
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Post by eskvalleystud on Jul 2, 2009 23:51:09 GMT
looking at it from a different point of view, I recently watched an awful programme on sky called my sweet 16, the girl had a pony who must of qualified for HOYS, now was this bought with the qualification as the girl stated she just had to ride around the ring looking pretty - i am not sure as parents then went on to spend thousands on her 16th birthday party and buy her a flashy new car - no work required from child to obtain such items, the said pony proceeded to fling her off at HOYS and her parents said she hadn't ridden since, it does take the right buyer and rider to ride at top shows with a pony or horse, I liked the recent interview with Kirsten Douglas (sp) in the Scottish Equestrian where she said she doesn't like to buy othe peoples rosettes but produce them herself from the beginning, its not just the pony but the rider/trainer, I do agree something that is not up to scratch shouldn't be advertised as such, but one that hasn't been proven but the owner or breeder has a firm belief that they are good enough then I feel why do they have to have already proven themselves in qualifiers, a youngster starting out in ridden classes , may take a season or two to get to that standard of HOYS, but a good eye can most likely tell from an early age if something is that extra special
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Post by hoys pot on Jul 3, 2009 7:14:51 GMT
what about the people who say it has been to hoys when it most definitely had not!! yes they are out there too!! my friend bought one and i know for a fact it hadn't been to hoys as i used to ride for the owners!  |
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Post by colourful on Jul 3, 2009 7:36:01 GMT
what about the people who say it has been to hoys when it most definitely had not!! yes they are out there too!! my friend bought one and i know for a fact it hadn't been to hoys as i used to ride for the owners! Grief! that is incredible, surely the seller would know they would be found out - |
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Jul 3, 2009 8:04:43 GMT
Surely that would be an offence against the Trades Descriptions Act and they could be had up if found out? I suppose it just shows that sadly buyers do need to check up on facts given by vendors. Year? Placing? Presumably there is a list somewhere of the qualifers each year.
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Post by hoys pot on Jul 3, 2009 8:04:52 GMT
sellers bought this pony from lady i rode for-yes she had hoys ponies, so new owners thought they'd sell it as been to hoys to someone who never would've dreamed of checking up on this, the pony was a little cow and certainly not hoys quality. They only found out when i told them!
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Post by hoys pot on Jul 3, 2009 8:07:47 GMT
sellers bought this pony from lady i rode for-yes she had hoys ponies, so new owners thought they'd sell it as been to hoys to someone who never would've dreamed of checking up on this, the pony was a little cow and certainly not hoys quality. They only found out when i told them!
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Post by eskvalleystud on Jul 3, 2009 8:11:43 GMT
I too heard from someone who knew of a lady who advertised her pony as having qualified for HOYS when it had definately not!!! it was advertised on Horsequest and it sold fairly quickly - probably due to this - I imagine that this must be against the law to sell anything that has not done what it says on the tin! but who would you report it too???
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..there are also the cracking ponies out there that people dont know how special they are!! theyre the best sellers!! 
but other people have different criteria when choosing a horse - but I still maintain the phrase is abused. ;D
